Off Road trailer size (1 Viewer)

[kcjaz]

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I tow a Patriot X1-H with my LC200. In my experience, if I can get the LC200 through the obstacle, the trailer just follows along. I love having the trailer and truly don't worry about it on the trail.

I did over 10k miles this summer in Canada and Alaska with about 4k of that offroad. One of the challenging trails was the drive into Knik Glacier in Alaska. Certainly got looks from people for having a trailer on some of the obstacles.

As for which trailer to go with, there are so many options out there. All have their pros and cons. I ultimately ended up with the Patriot and love it. So much storage space, fantastic galley, 40 gallon of water storage set low in the frame for great center of gravity, rock solid stability with no coil spring suspension kick since it has airbags. If I was a family of 5 or 6, then I would go with the X1 since the change room and kids room can be left attached to the tent.

Awesome looking setup! Lots of great input/thoughts in the responses by all too. Did you actually take your X1-H to the Knik Glacier? I've got this idea in my head of a 6 week trip up to and back from Alaska with two weeks in Alaska. That's several years off as I can't get that kind of time away yet...

Googled and found this:

Wheeling to Knik Glacier on Day 1 of Ultimate Adventure 2019 #UA2019

Ultimate Adventure visits a glacier! Day 1- Knik Glacier.

www.motortrend.com

Not sure I'd want a trailer in some of that. Muddin' isn't really my thing but the idea of getting to and being to and being able to camp at a glacier is pretty cool. Going a bit off topic here but did you worry about bears and the fact that your camp kitchen and food storage is where you sleep?

 

[DesmoPilot]

Awesome looking setup! Lots of great input/thoughts in the responses by all too. Did you actually take your X1-H to the Knik Glacier? I've got this idea in my head of a 6 week trip up to and back from Alaska with two weeks in Alaska. That's several years off as I can't get that kind of time away yet...

Googled and found this:

Wheeling to Knik Glacier on Day 1 of Ultimate Adventure 2019 #UA2019

Ultimate Adventure visits a glacier! Day 1- Knik Glacier.

www.motortrend.com

Not sure I'd want a trailer in some of that. Muddin' isn't really my thing but the idea of getting to and being to and being able to camp at a glacier is pretty cool. Going a bit off topic here but did you worry about bears and the fact that your camp kitchen and food storage is where you sleep?

Yup, made it to the glacier. The picture I posted is at the glacier itself. The drive in is not for the faint of heart, it is very, very challenging. So many water crossings, mud, trees, ledges, dropoffs and probably a minimum of a 1000 different trail junctions. There is not a set trail to follow, so you are constantly trying different options, backing out and trying a new one, walking across a water crossings to validate depth(my kids and I lived in chest waders), etc. The water crossings change throughout the day as the glacier melts. So a crossing you did in the morning would not be the same in the afternoon. But, it was all worth it. Two days on the trail. For this trip we are on the road for two months. It was my two daughters(12 & 14) and I in my rig and my buddy and his 12yr old son in his Tacoma. I personally wouldn't do Knik without another vehicle, as you will be required to do multiple vehicle recoveries to have success.

As for bears and food, we didn't have any issues. We saw bears all the time. After cooking dinner we were always very diligent about trash. Each night I placed trash in Zarges box on top of the LC. And made sure all dishes, etc were clean and put away immediately after cooking. And of course keep bear spray available in the tent when sleeping.

 

[NTV]

View attachment 3168874

I tow a Patriot X1-H with my LC200. In my experience, if I can get the LC200 through the obstacle, the trailer just follows along. I love having the trailer and truly don't worry about it on the trail.

I did over 10k miles this summer in Canada and Alaska with about 4k of that offroad. One of the challenging trails was the drive into Knik Glacier in Alaska. Certainly got looks from people for having a trailer on some of the obstacles.

As for which trailer to go with, there are so many options out there. All have their pros and cons. I ultimately ended up with the Patriot and love it. So much storage space, fantastic galley, 40 gallon of water storage set low in the frame for great center of gravity, rock solid stability with no coil spring suspension kick since it has airbags. If I was a family of 5 or 6, then I would go with the X1 since the change room and kids room can be left attached to the tent.

That is an awesome set up! I would have gone patriot if I had the extra 20k at the time. I would agree if you want the most off road worthy set up patriot would be the way to go. I was all in for about 22k on my turtleback and for that price it works great but has a few things missing. I am not a fan of the awning mount on my trailer as it gets in the way when opening the main access hatch. For the price though I am happy and it is definitely built to last a very long time. The custom icon springs and shocks make off roading extremely smooth on washboards. At some point I will switch the 31 inch tires to 33’s on the trailer and march the rims to my cruiser. That will give me two matching spares that will can use on rig or trailer.

 

[kcjaz]

Yup, made it to the glacier. The picture I posted is at the glacier itself. The drive in is not for the faint of heart, it is very, very challenging. So many water crossings, mud, trees, ledges, dropoffs and probably a minimum of a 1000 different trail junctions. There is not a set trail to follow, so you are constantly trying different options, backing out and trying a new one, walking across a water crossings to validate depth(my kids and I lived in chest waders), etc. The water crossings change throughout the day as the glacier melts. So a crossing you did in the morning would not be the same in the afternoon. But, it was all worth it. Two days on the trail. For this trip we are on the road for two months. It was my two daughters(12 & 14) and I in my rig and my buddy and his 12yr old son in his Tacoma. I personally wouldn't do Knik without another vehicle, as you will be required to do multiple vehicle recoveries to have success.

As for bears and food, we didn't have any issues. We saw bears all the time. After cooking dinner we were always very diligent about trash. Each night I placed trash in Zarges box on top of the LC. And made sure all dishes, etc were clean and put away immediately after cooking. And of course keep bear spray available in the tent when sleeping.

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Amazing! I wouldn't have the guts for that without 2 or 3 more rigs with people who have been there before. Your kids will never forget that trip for sure!

 

[DesmoPilot]

That is an awesome set up! I would have gone patriot if I had the extra 20k at the time. I would agree if you want the most off road worthy set up patriot would be the way to go. I was all in for about 22k on my turtleback and for that price it works great but has a few things missing. I am not a fan of the awning mount on my trailer as it gets in the way when opening the main access hatch. For the price though I am happy and it is definitely built to last a very long time. The custom icon springs and shocks make off roading extremely smooth on washboards. At some point I will switch the 31 inch tires to 33’s on the trailer and march the rims to my cruiser. That will give me two matching spares that will can use on rig or trailer.

Thank you! I am very happy with it. I had my selection down to Patriot and Turtleback. Turtleback is local to me, so that certainly would have been a nice benefit. They both have their pros and cons. Ultimately, there were a couple of things that steered me to the Patriot.

 

[Artie]

The trouble with the Turtle is there is very limited storage, so your gear ends up in the truck. Our goal with this is to be able to tow with all three rows of seats in place and have minimal clutter in the truck.

A lot of the true off road rated trailers skimp on storage but this is mainly due to their small size.

We share your goal as well and have found that the space the camper affords is a massive pro over the other cons, especially if you’re traveling with a family. Being able to get to the important stuff in the cruiser without rearranging is clutch. This allows for easier day trips when leaving base camp and also allows for the camper to remain packed and ready to go at a moments notice when we want to leave home for a trip… this really makes last minute or impromptu trips a lot easier.

If it were just me or my wife and I we’d probably be in a roof top tent.

 

[biff44]

i have hauled a lot of gear with my trailer, just a small landscaping type, not a camper.
everytime i got kind of hung up, i just dropped the hitch wheel jack down, disconnected it, spun her around manually, then hooked it up again.

so my advice is get one that has a big hitch tire so it rolls in the woods, and keep the tongue weight down to where two of you can buffalo it around into any crevice you need to do so into.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

Has anyone heard anything good or bad about the Schutt XVenture XV2? It seems like it can do everything I need, or am I missing something?

SCHUTT - BEHIND YOU ALL THE WAY

www.schuttindustries.com

 

[NTV]

Has anyone heard anything good or bad about the Schutt XVenture XV2? It seems like it can do everything I need, or am I missing something?

SCHUTT - BEHIND YOU ALL THE WAY

www.schuttindustries.com

I looked at these real close before I bought my turtleback. It has more versatility but I couldn’t get past the solid axle. If you plan to go into some more challenging trails having the icon suspension that I have or another independent suspension makes a world of difference when you start to get a little flexy. But build quality for shutt looks great and for most off road applications I think it’s a solid solution. Also they are all aluminum so they are very light if you are concerned with that part.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

I looked at these real close before I bought my turtleback. It has more versatility but I couldn’t get past the solid axle. If you plan to go into some more challenging trails having the icon suspension that I have or another independent suspension makes a world of difference when you start to get a little flexy. But build quality for shutt looks great and for most off road applications I think it’s a solid solution. Also they are all aluminum so they are very light if you are concerned with that part.

That’s a good point! I wonder if they could build one with the Timbren independent suspension or simply do the conversion myself.

What is the icon suspension? Edit: NM, I found it.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I looked at these real close before I bought my turtleback. It has more versatility but I couldn’t get past the solid axle. If you plan to go into some more challenging trails having the icon suspension that I have or another independent suspension makes a world of difference when you start to get a little flexy. But build quality for shutt looks great and for most off road applications I think it’s a solid solution. Also they are all aluminum so they are very light if you are concerned with that part.

I don't see much (if any) point in independent suspension on a single-axle trailer. This isn't a vehicle where suspension flex is important. A solid axle trailer can tilt and pivot all day long without any issues.

 

[NTV]

I don't see much (if any) point in independent suspension on a single-axle trailer. This isn't a vehicle where suspension flex is important. A solid axle trailer can tilt and pivot all day long without any issues.

Yeah not sure I agree. Tilting side to side on a solid axle can create easier roll over situations as well as transfer a lot more bounce on washboards. Without power to the wheels on a trailer the benefits of a solid axle on a rig are not present on a trailer. Another benefit of independent suspension on a trailer is not having the clearance issues a solid axle brings as you drag the trailer over rocks typically it’s harder to place your trailer wheels over large rocks and having the extra clearance under center of trailer comes in handy. Just my opinion after 3yrs of using my set up. If you have a massive trailer and need the payload that a solid axle or dual axle can give you sure by all means there is a benefit. But when your main focus is off-road ability and your not concerned about having a marble counter top at 10000ft then I am choosing independent suspension all day long. Again just my opinion.

 

[CharlieS]

That’s a good point! I wonder if they could build one with the Timbren independent suspension or simply do the conversion myself.

What is the icon suspension? Edit: NM, I found it.

You can buy the Timbrens on eTrailer and based on the videos I've seen, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to do the conversion. I've been tempted to replace the solid axle on my current trailer, but I don't like the rest of it enough to make that investment.

 

[kcjaz]

Yeah not sure I agree. Tilting side to side on a solid axle can create easier roll over situations as well as transfer a lot more bounce on washboards. Without power to the wheels on a trailer the benefits of a solid axle on a rig are not present on a trailer. Another benefit of independent suspension on a trailer is not having the clearance issues a solid axle brings as you drag the trailer over rocks typically it’s harder to place your trailer wheels over large rocks and having the extra clearance under center of trailer comes in handy. Just my opinion after 3yrs of using my set up. If you have a massive trailer and need the payload that a solid axle or dual axle can give you sure by all means there is a benefit. But when your main focus is off-road ability and your not concerned about having a marble counter top at 10000ft then I am choosing independent suspension all day long. Again just my opinion.

I can see both sides of this debate. The teardrop I rented had Timbern 3500 pound HD axles. The whole trailer weighed about 1300 pounds and I probably had less than 100 pounds of gear. The combination I would say it was pretty stiff. While I did not try to take this thing off road I think that in slow moving off-road trail use going over moguls and rocks the independent suspension wouldn’t do much over a solid axil. The whole trailer would just tilt and pivot. What I do not know is how much droop the Timbren axles provide in the set up but without drive/power to the wheels I’m not sure this matters. Maybe lighter weight axles or on a heavier trailer the independent suspension would do more. The clearance advantage that was there regardless.

 

[CharlieS]

I can see both sides of this debate. The teardrop I rented had Timbern 3500 pound HD axles. The whole trailer weighed about 1300 pounds and I probably had less than 100 pounds of gear. The combination I would say it was pretty stiff. While I did not try to take this thing off road I think that in slow moving off-road trail use going over moguls and rocks the independent suspension wouldn’t do much over a solid axil. The whole trailer would just tilt and pivot. What I do not know is how much droop the Timbren axles provide in the set up but without drive/power to the wheels I’m not sure this matters. Maybe lighter weight axles or on a heavier trailer the independent suspension would do more. The clearance advantage that was there regardless.

You had a mismatch between the load and the suspension. Makes sense that it didn't work optimally.

 

[DesmoPilot]

I've towed both independent and straight axle extensively offroad. Straight axle is great for the road, not for off-roading more than a simple road. In my experience, I have found that the biggest impact on off-road trailer performance is whether the independent suspension has coil springs or air bags. Coils can be great. However, if the trailer isn't loaded at the optimal weight for the coil spring rate, then the trailer can experience excessive rebound kick when dropping off of bumps, ledges, etc. I have seen too many coil spring trailers flop on the sides on the smallest of obstacles.
Replacing the coils with air bags allows the user to set the bag based on the current weight of the trailer. So, doesn't matter if you are light on one trip and heavy on the next. You simply adjust the bag accordingly. That is my favorite thing about towing the Patriot with the bags. It is rock solid with absolutely no rebound kick/bounce.

If you are just doing maintained dirt roads, then any suspension will be more than adequate. But, if looking to truly off-road the trailer, then getting into the suspension details can be the difference between a great experience and a disaster.

 

[kcjaz]

You had a mismatch between the load and the suspension. Makes sense that it didn't work optimally.

for sure. As I have been researching small "off road" trailers, most being tear drops, I see a lot of manufactures offering 3500# Timbren axles on the "off-road" versions of their trailers. I think some of these manufactures just do this so they can have an "off-road" product. They haven't really engineered a true off-road trailer. The Cruisemaster independent suspension on the Patriot X1-H is not the same as a simple Timbren system and it is matched for what the X1-H is.

I think some manufactures add Timbren just to be able to say "it has Timbren axles" which makes it seem more off-roady to a lot of people. Never mind the thing is made of plywood and really won't take a lifetime of off-road beating. I imagine that most tear drop people don't really take their tear drops on hard core trails. The Mud crown is not the majority of the market.

 

[NTV]

for sure. As I have been researching small "off road" trailers, most being tear drops, I see a lot of manufactures offering 3500# Timbren axles on the "off-road" versions of their trailers. I think some of these manufactures just do this so they can have an "off-road" product. They haven't really engineered a true off-road trailer. The Cruisemaster independent suspension on the Patriot X1-H is not the same as a simple Timbren system and it is matched for what the X1-H is.

I think some manufactures add Timbren just to be able to say "it has Timbren axles" which makes it seem more off-roady to a lot of people. Never mind the thing is made of plywood and really won't take a lifetime of off-road beating. I imagine that most tear drop people don't really take their tear drops on hard core trails. The Mud crown is not the majority of the market.

Yep. Both points above and Desmo’s as well spot on. The springs on the turtleback are tuned specifically to the weight carried so it is dialed in on the rebound. When I first got it and had only water and no gear or tent on it it was bouncing around a bit. Now with my normal gear loaded and just the water being the variable it rides at the weight the springs were intended. Agree airbags get you tons of flexibility to dial in weight. And airbags can level you at camp which is one pain in the ass I have to deal with finding rocks or bringing my lynx leveler blocks.

 

[DesmoPilot]

Yep. Both points above and Desmo’s as well spot on. The springs on the turtleback are tuned specifically to the weight carried so it is dialed in on the rebound. When I first got it and had only water and no gear or tent on it it was bouncing around a bit. Now with my normal gear loaded and just the water being the variable it rides at the weight the springs were intended. Agree airbags get you tons of flexibility to dial in weight. And airbags can level you at camp which is one pain in the ass I have to deal with finding rocks or bringing my lynx leveler blocks.

Completely forgot to mention the nice benefit of leveling at camp. Love it!

Turtleback is now starting to use bags as well. Not on all, but they are offering it.

 

[Heckraiser]

I have experience with a Hiker Trailer (about the same size as your rental teardrop and about 720# unloaded) and I would take it almost anywhere with an offroad hitch. Benefits of the small teardrop: 1) It's light enough that if the s*** really hits the fan, you can unhook it and move it by hand 2) Long single-tube tongue can be jacknifed or maneuvered however you need to without damaging the trailer box (may damage your bumper plastics).

Current rig is an A-liners Scout Lite (basically the smallest A-Liner). Extra width and A-frame tongue both make it harder to manouver by comparison. Larger overall box size (wheels under the box rather than next to it) puts it in harms way more often and even with a 2" lift, the ass of the trailer gets stuffed in the dirt from time to time. Haven't gotten around to larger tires yet, but 235/75/15 is the largest that will fit with my 2" lift, so not expecting a lot more clearance.

Honestly, either rig, I would focus on getting the trailer to basecamp and unloading it, because running into oncoming traffic just SUCKS with a trailer. The other guy on the trail will think you're an a******, and he'll be right.