O R I O N (1 Viewer)

[Jerzfj40]

the first thing i would do is to remove the shifter boot and try it again. most of the issues with these cases popping out of gear are linkage and boot related. and by that i mean 90% or more. if it still pops out, then unbolt the linkage and try it again. that way you'll know for sure. if the linkage gets within 1/4" of the body at any point, then you need to enlongate the hole.

hth

georg

I was kinda thinking the same thing, but wanted some input from you before i started taking it apart. I'll let you know when i get a chance to take it out wheeling again.

 

[69 4 fun]

what is the cost for you to build a bolt in orion?

 

[orangefj45]

if you're asking me then please pm me next week and i'll be happy to get back to you with a complete quote

hth


georg

 

[Python]

Hi Guys -

#307 - 700R4 - 383 Stroker

I've been loosely (so much so that I didn't know there is/was an HD version) following this thread for years and figured I would do some research prior to installing my Orion. I purchased case #307 from AA in June/July 2006.

Assuming that the popping out of gear happens on the non-HD version as well, it looks like there have been some upgrades to help keep them in gear. What I would like to know is if my case was shipped with the upgrades or not.

I assembled the case using what came in the kit, in addition to the bits and pieces needed from the donor case. I have the 4:1 so the shift fork is new and I believe the shift rail is new too. What I don't know is if I have the "upgraded" shift collar, detent ball/spring and back-cut gear.

One would think this is a simple question for AA to answer. I called and talked with Matthew yesterday and he started talking about checking the bearing run out and the gap between the shoulder and low range gear and so on. We went round and round a bit but at the end of the day, he didn't answer my question.

I assembled the case nearly 5 years ago but it has not yet been run. Before I put it in the rig and button everything up, I want to find out if I should change/upgrade it in any way. Now is the time to do it.

With that said (sorry for the long post), does anyone know if cases 307 and higher had the "upgraded" parts (shift rail, collar, back-cut gear) or not?

Thanks!

 

[peesalot]

The shift collar is not updated it is just prudent to use a new one and the shift forks from A/A had a bunch that were not heat treated so that has caused some forks to wear unusually. The high speed gear being back cut is something you can determine by opening the case and looking at the gear. Not sure if you or A/A can tell by the unit # or not. Matthew knows the orions. He and I went round and round about the popping out issue and in the end his advice regarding the clearance between the OD of the output shaft where the high speed gear rides and the ID of the bushing in the hi speed gear is a huge issue. When we took my orion apart after a couple thousand miles the clearance in said spot was 3 thou. and the bushing had begun to hourglass due to the oscilation of the gear under deceleration. Had to put new bushing in and got the clearance down to a bit over 1 thou. Installed shift rail upgrade and used my original non back cut gear and it runs well, no issues.

 

[orangefj45]

the AA forks were always heat treated. the problem with them as warpage due to improper heat treating. that job is outsourced to somebody else and not done at AA.

i have used oem fork in the past, but they require some grinding.

the updates to the orions were not all done at once starting with one particular case. there have been several upgrades and revisions along the way.

hth

georg

 

[Cdaniel]

#554 begins

Finally started the tear down of my organ donor case to build the Orion.
I have a new output shaft. The hi/low shift collar has some wear. Is it too much? I'm thinking yes, but what say you builders out there?

 

[orangefj45]

i'd run a new collar. no need to take a chance on a part that does'nt cost a whole lot. fwiw, the new collars are made by seamaster who is the oem manufacturer for them.

i have them in stock at all times should you need one.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[Cdaniel]

Got a new shift collar from georg, thanks for the quick ship man! I got in a whirlwind of stuff this week and your payment is on the way a bit late.

On to another xfer case question to the group.

Which nose? In the picture I have on the right, the nose cone from the early "3spd" case I was running. On the left is one from an unknown year bone yard piece I got many years ago when I needed a shift housing.

The left looks to be improved with strengthening ribs from a later model. Probably "4spd".

Interchangeable parts? I'm going to clean it up and use it unless I hear otherwise.

 

[orangefj45]

Run the finned 4spd cone. It's stronger and will interchange.

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

 

[Cdaniel]

Run the finned 4spd cone. It's stronger and will interchange.

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

After clean up and assembly, the bearings fit a little looser than I expected. Particularly the tapered roller. The cup came out very easy and the new one slips right in with no press.

I was expecting it to seat tighter like my other one. No big deal? Maybe a little red loctite to keep it from turning in the bore?

 

[orangefj45]

That would indicate that at one point, the race spun in the nose cone. You can either try to find a replacement nose cone or some sleeve retainer compound.

Hth

Georg

 

[Cdaniel]

Stepped thrust washers...

Stepped thrust washers, are they in the kit just in case? I've measured the end play with the stepped washers on the high speed gear and a new shaft. It's either zero with one or .003 with the other. I get .012 with the stock flat one, right at the limit of .008 to .012 in the instructions. I'm assuming the goal here is the least amount of end play with out getting to zero. If I install the original one I could foresee it being out of spec from wear soon.

Also there is no mention of use of the stepped washer on the low speed gear. "install stock thrust washer G29" And no end play spec to look for.

 

[orangefj45]

AA supplies the stepped washers and not flat washers since you should have those from your donor case.
I like setting them up with .006-.008 endplay. I would not run .012" it's just too much. In your case, I would take one of the stepped washers and flat sand them till you get .006" endplay. Proper flat sanding is crucial!!!!!! Take a piece of new 600wet-dry paper and put it on a very flat and smooth surface. Put the washer down and manipulate it in a figure-8 Pattern. This will ensure even removal of material all the way around. Do not sand the washer by going in circles. This will cause uneven removal!!!!

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

 

[Cdaniel]

AA supplies the stepped washers and not flat washers since you should have those from your donor case.
I like setting them up with .006-.008 endplay. I would not run .012" it's just too much. In your case, I would take one of the stepped washers and flat sand them till you get .006" endplay. Proper flat sanding is crucial!!!!!! Take a piece of new 600wet-dry paper and put it on a very flat and smooth surface. Put the washer down and manipulate it in a figure-8 Pattern. This will ensure even removal of material all the way around. Do not sand the washer by going in circles. This will cause uneven removal!!!!

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

Will do Georg. We have a nice flat granite inspection plate at work that serves this very function from time to time.

Any insite on end play spec for the for the low speed gear?

 

[Poser]

Any insite on end play spec for the for the low speed gear?

High speed/low speed get set up the same by me.

 

[orangefj45]

High speed/low speed get set up the same by me.

Ditto

 

[Fast Eddy]

Uh oh.

What happened to this?

It has never really been in low except for maybe once. I always thought it was the linkage that sucked. As I took it apart to look at the detent I noticed it wouldn't shift into low at all, even with mother's little helper. This is why. This is where the shift collar would slide onto the low-range gear.

It's got about 500 road miles on it since I put it in. It's only been in 4wd to test it.

Edit: From AA: "When installing the Orion and using your stock output shaft, you are required to hold a .008" to .012" end play. Due to all the various shafts (O.E. and Aftermarket) this end play is not always achievable. The stepped washers allow you to hit the tolerance on this installation. These stepped washers are sold individually."

Hmmm. Don't remember hearing about that before. Do the stepped washers go somewhere around the speedo drive gear?

 

[orangefj45]

Looks to me like whoever assembled this unit set the thrust waaaaay too tight and didn't re-check it before installing the top cover.

 

[Poser]

From AA: "When installing the Orion and using your stock output shaft, you are required to hold a .008" to .012" end play. Due to all the various shafts (O.E. and Aftermarket) this end play is not always achievable. The stepped washers allow you to hit the tolerance on this installation. These stepped washers are sold individually."

Hmmm. Don't remember hearing about that before. Do the stepped washers go somewhere around the speedo drive gear?

Jan '07 I started this thread, from here.


AA stepped washers were available back in '06; some of us were using them in stock transfer case builds for years previous to that.