No Spark (1 Viewer)

[kaneenak]

We are having an issue getting spark on our 1972 FJ40.

We have verified we are getting the correct voltage at the coil (between 7 and 8 volts) and more (around 12) when starting. However, nothing is coming out of the coil.

We're replaced the coil, condenser, coil wire, wiring, and today ensured we had a little insulator on the connection on the side of the distributor per something we read in another post. Still nothing!

We are including pictures below of the coil, distributor, points, condenser, and associated wiring. What do you all suggest? At this point we don't have any ideas. We've checked voltage, resistance, connections, etc., per other posts but still are not getting fire. What could be going on?

New Coil (Bird's Eye)

• kaneenak
• Jan 10, 2016

Bird's eye view of new coil.

New Coil

• kaneenak
• Jan 10, 2016

We purchased a new coil (2nd one actually) because the original and the first one we bought...

New Condenser

• kaneenak
• Jan 10, 2016

We purchased a new condenser because we suspected the old one might have been the culprit.

Distributor Points

• kaneenak
• Jan 10, 2016

Existing Distributor Points. We are wondering if this might be our problem.

Thanks so much for any thoughts you may have!

 

[micruz60]

Do the points open the required gap when the rubbing block is at a lobe on the distributor?

 

[Curt]

Has the vehicle ever run or you bringing it back from the dead. Hard to follow some of the wires, could you give a little more info? Is that an internal or external resisted coil? i see you have an external resistor.

 

[Pin_Head]

Can't really tell from the pictures, but there appear to be too many wires connected to the coil that I can't tell where they go.

Start simple: Disconnect the wires at the - side of the coil. Pull the high voltage wire from the center of the distributor and hold the end 1/4 inch away from the block. Turn the key on and momentarily ground the - side of the coil (on, off, on, off, etc). You should get a spark every time you disconnect the - side.

 

[kaneenak]

The FJ *was* running before we started working on it. Well, let me elaborate. We had to pour gas into the carb to get her to start and she would run nicely until the gas was used. We (my son) has since cleaned and rebuilt the carb, replaced the starter, and a few other components that needed replacing.

But now there is no spark at all coming from coil. As part of troubleshooting, we replaced some of the original wires, coil, condenser, plug wires, and plugs.

We do have an external ballast resistor. To be honest, I'm not 100% certain if our new coil has an internal one. We purchased one that was supposedly for our model.

As far as wiring, the following is what is currently in place:
* Ignition wire from inside car <-> ballast resistor
* coil (-) <-> ballast resistor (-)
* coil (+) <-> ballast resistor (+)
* coil (+) <-> Starter (our understanding is that provides additional needed voltage *during* starting)
* coil (-) <-> sid of dizzy where condenser wires connects

We plan to check points gap per earlier post as well as soon as we can.

One thing that is confusing to me is that two negative wires are all that connect to distributor. Negative high voltage coming into top and negative coming from coil to side of distributor where condenser wire connects. Is that correct?

Thanks so much for any help you can provide.

 

[Pin_Head]

1. It is not an FJ. An FJ is an FJ Cruiser; a different thing. It is an FJ40 or 40.

2. The ignition circuit goes: Black/yellow stripe wire from Ignition switch goes to one side of the ballast resistor. The other side of the resistor goes to the coil + lug. The smaller wire from the starter also goes to the coil +. The coil - goes to the distributor where the condenser connects. No other connections or wires.

 

[Curt]

How can he verify if he has a self resisted coil or not pin_head?

 

[txnight]

Take it out and test the resistance with an ohm meter.

Can you verify that the distributor is turning?

 

[Pin_Head]

It usually says "ballast resistor type" or "use with ballast resistor" on it.

 

[whitey45]

Good lord, never seen so much over engineering on a 72 40! Get rid of everything in the pic? Simple pos to + on the coil and neg to the distributer! Done!!!

 

[Pin_Head]

Not really. A ballast resistor type coil will burn out if it is run without its resistor. A non ballast type coil may not run if you add a ballast resistor. You need to find out what type of coil it is. If it doesn't say what the type is, ballast coils have a primary resistance (between the + and - lugs) of 1.5 ohms. Non ballast are 3 ohms. You need a good quality meter to reliably tell the difference.

 

[kaneenak]

Thanks guys. I am so thankful to have a forum like this. We haven't solved the problem yet but we appreciate the input/ideas because we had kind of hit a dead end. Plus, at this point, we needed a good laugh which the over-engineering comment and clarification that we have an "FJ40" provided.

So tonight we removed the extra wire from the ballast resistor to the coil and tried again. Interesting our fuel pump (it had an electronic one when we purchased the FJ40) wasn't running. Upon checking voltage at the ballast resistor, we had none. Also the 15A fuse for the ignition had blown.

So another step back. We actually had this issue (lack of voltage at the ballast resistor) a week ago and it disappeared after we unplugged and plugged the ignition switch back in. That issue first appeared when we were "troubleshooting" the coil by providing voltage directly to it per instructions by our local Auto Parts store. We apparently did something wrong, blew a fuse, and lost voltage at the ballast resistor.

That time, re-seating the ignition switch fixed the issue. We weren't sure why that fixed it last week but upon remedying that issue, immediately got back on the lack of spark at the coil issue.

Re-seating the ignition and replacing the fuse did not fix the issue this time. So now we need to get voltage back to the ballast resistor and then we can move back to the coil issue. We are praying removing that extra wire will have solved our issue.

 

[Pin_Head]

The ignition wire from the key is not fused, so something is wrong here.

Here is the fix it drill.

1. Figure out what kind of coil you have; resistor or not. It didn't come with a chrome coil, so it isn't the stock one.

2. Hook the + side of the coil to the battery without or with the resistor in series if it needs one.

3. Remove any wires at the - side of the coil and momentarily ground the - side of the coil and see if you get a spark out of the center wire.

If you get a spark, the coil is good, so then find out why you don't have any power coming from the key switch.

 

[kaneenak]

We have three coil's, The original as well as one we purchased that says on the side that it needs an external resistor, as well as the another that we purchased (chrome one).that has no such indication on the side. The original measures no resistance post to post. both of the other two replacements measure 1.5 ohms post to post. on the manufacturers website the silver one indicates it does not need an external resister but those measurements just mentioned would say otherwise to us. Are we misunderstanding?

We also took the distributor cap off and turn the motor over to observe spark between the points. The points would open and close and we noticed spark when They opened.

We do now have voltage to the ballast resistor. Although we don't know why it started working again. However we don't have voltage at the coil when the ignition is in the on position; are we supposed to? (well it's 0.33)

We plan to try the other suggestions you made as far as testing the coils next. Thanks so much for all your suggestions.

 

[sggoat]

Here's a coil check procedure from the FSM(it's 1977, but I can't believe it would be that different.

 

[Pin_Head]

The voltage at the coil + terminal varies, depending on whether the points are open or closed. The voltage when they are open will read battery voltage or approximately 12V. When they are closed, it will read approximately 6V if you are using the ballast resistor and somewhat higher if you are not.

 

[kaneenak]

Good News: we are getting voltage at coil (about 5 volts when on) and spark at plugs (not sure if it's "good enough" spark but it's progress). Problem was I had wire coming out of ballast resistor going to - of coil versus +. My lack of understanding.

Bad News: Reason I wonder if spark is good enough is FJ40 still won't start. :-( We've checked all the plugs and they are firing. We've reverted to method used to start it when we first bought it (gas or starting fluid directly in carb) but it still won't start. Remember that we did rebuild the carb and I feel like we did it right - followed on-line instructions, cleaned it, new kit, etc.

What would you guys suggest? Probably taking it to someone who knew what they were doing? But my son and I are having fun learning.

 

[Curt]

After cranking you should see fuel in the carb sight glass. how about the timing?

 

[kaneenak]

Tonight we finally got her to crank but only by pouring gasoline into the carb and then she ran for a few seconds. We also noted the main belt is slipping a bit.

We adjusted the fuel/air mixture screw per the repair manual we have - 1 and 1/4 turns out from fully closed. Still won't crank w/o pouring fuel into carb. This was same behavior we experienced before rebuilding the carb.

Any thoughts as to what might be issue? I see Curt mentioned possibly a timing issue?

Thanks so much guys for all your help.

 

[the gimpey one]

Fuel cut off solenoid getting power/work?