I understand everything you are saying here. You acknowledge that you are select minority, fixated on all the little details that make your cruisers and that "lifestyle" what it is. But in my book, that makes you a nerd. Not meant to be derogatory, mind you. Hey, I participate in vintage simulation baseball leagues, and that's about as nerdy as it gets. In this respect, I meant "nerd" as a roundabout compliment.3fj40 said:
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Why? Seems like the FJ Cruiser might be a better vehicle.Dirk Diggler said:
Or do you want to dissuade any non-cruiser nerd from buying a new FJ, thereby validating the seemingly prevalent position amongst old cruiser owners that the new FJ is somehow unworthy of its legacy? Or is it more of an association thing? The horror of a soccer mommy sharing a vehicle with the same lineage as all you rugged individualist cruiser owners?
Just wondering.
Gosh, why am i starting to feel kind of like im in Chit-Chat reading a political thread....
roadeyes said:
Why would you buy such a vehicle? Because it's a better vehicle, as you propose? No, the Tacoma/4Runner is the better vehicle, this one just looks different. So it's the look that you would buy? What look is that? Do you think that such a vehicle would present you as your sort of hardy, down to earth and simplistic kind of individualist? Well, do you really think that a car will do that? If you do then it would seem that Buefort is right. To buy a car in order to fool the world does seem to me a pretty gay sort of thing to do. Foppery.
This new vehicle will not have a practical application that I can determine. It won't get high fuel milage, it won't carry your soccer team well with so few doors, it won't do well offroad without extensive modification, it won't carry heavy loads. It just won't do anything all that well, or at least for any practical purpose, or even an impractical one or two, there already exists a better vehicle. So why consider this one at all?
Just wondering.....
Interesting. Do you find your post a little hypocritical at all?honk said:Why would you buy such a vehicle? Because it's a better vehicle, as you propose? No, the Tacoma/4Runner is the better vehicle, this one just looks different. So it's the look that you would buy? What look is that? Do you think that such a vehicle would present you as your sort of hardy, down to earth and simplistic kind of individualist? Well, do you really think that a car will do that? If you do then it would seem that Buefort is right. To buy a car in order to fool the world does seem to me a pretty gay sort of thing to do. Foppery.
This new vehicle will not have a practical application that I can determine. It won't get high fuel milage, it won't carry your soccer team well with so few doors, it won't do well offroad without extensive modification, it won't carry heavy loads. It just won't do anything all that well, or at least for any practical purpose, or even an impractical one or two, there already exists a better vehicle. So why consider this one at all?
Just wondering.....
To honestly address your question, I am considering a new FJ because it seems a better vehicle than an Element-bigger engine, more durable, and yes, better lineage. I also believe it "looks" better than an Element. Mileage, utility, off road ability-those are all relative to me. There are many vehicles that fit within the parameters I've laid out in choosing a new vehicle. (In further disclosure, I am now also considering a 4Runner, based largely on comments I've read here.) So, it comes down to price, value and aesthetics for me. The FJ is near the top of my list in all areas. It's amusing that this disturbs anyone.
To turn the tables, why does anyone here own an old cruiser? Do you all live in remote areas only accessible by antiquated four wheel drive vehicles that look "tuff" and "not gay"? Surely there are other, newer and more reliable vehicles for the purpose. Or do you confess that appearances and intrinsics are important to you as well?
Finally, maybe if some of you weren't so insecure, you could make a point without resorting to juvenile name calling.
ryanjl
SILVER Star
roadeyes said:
The irony in that sentence is hysterical.
What would buying an FJ Cruiser or Element get you that a Passat wagon wouldn't? Nothing that meets your supposed criteria for a vehicle.
People on this forum are largely off-road enthusiasts, who have chosen Land Cruisers as their means to enjoy that hobby for a variety of reasons I wont even go into here, as you would neither understand them or probably care.
The same as if you went on a running forum and wondered why everyone hated Nike's latest running shoe, because you thought they looked cool and would be comfortable to wear while you did your computer programming.
The same as if you went on a golf forum and wondered why everyone hated the latest Titleist irons, because you thought they were exclusively priced and impressed your business associates when you pulled them out of your bag.
Get the idea?
You profess yourself to be an expert in nothing associated with off-road driving, yet insult those who know what they are talking about simply because they are talking about it on a forum designed for that use.
You are the guest in this world.
ryanjl
SILVER Star
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing the vehicle in person at the SEMA show, where Toyota has arranged several vehicles to pander to the Land Cruiser's heritage.
Hopefully it will be on hand in colors other than Smurf, cause that's not really doing it for me.
Hopefully it will be on hand in colors other than Smurf, cause that's not really doing it for me.
In a not so veiled attempt to bring this topic back on course, I have to say the colors that i have seen so far leave a lot to be desired. As others here have to accuratly coined, smurf, tonka and rotting pumpkin are not what I am looking for. What's wrong with white, red, blue etc.... 
I plan on buying a second year model. Just so the bugs are out of it.
I'm buying it to replace my jeep grand cherokee. I use it for a daily driver and to tow the boat to the lake. I need something that can two 3200lbs safely and this looks like it will fit the bill. Especially with a six speed. I'll kind of get the best of boath worlds. Better fuel economy than my Jeep (it's a 2wd V-8). Towing capacity. And the added benefit of 4wd with anti lock.
I'm buying it to replace my jeep grand cherokee. I use it for a daily driver and to tow the boat to the lake. I need something that can two 3200lbs safely and this looks like it will fit the bill. Especially with a six speed. I'll kind of get the best of boath worlds. Better fuel economy than my Jeep (it's a 2wd V-8). Towing capacity. And the added benefit of 4wd with anti lock.
ryanjl
SILVER Star
Granger said:In a not so veiled attempt to bring this topic back on course, I have to say the colors that i have seen so far leave a lot to be desired. As others here have to accuratly coined, smurf, tonka and rotting pumpkin are not what I am looking for. What's wrong with white, red, blue etc....
I'm thinking a while one would look best, as it wouldn eliminate much of the harsh non-complimentary lines created by the two tone effect as seen on the smurf.
Probably a safe way to go, though I think the Japanese manufacterers are a lot better with the newer models. We bought a brand new 2003 (first year) Honda Element, and now with 46k miles we have never taken it to the dealer (or mechanic) and I have just done routine maintenance (oil changes, fluid level checks, never added any fluids yet, and air filter, that's about it), we've had no issues. Hopefully with the FJC being based on the proven 4r platform, there will not be many kinks for Toyota to work out.Trollhole said:
honk said:Why would you buy such a vehicle? Because it's a better vehicle, as you propose? No, the Tacoma/4Runner is the better vehicle, this one just looks different. So it's the look that you would buy? What look is that? Do you think that such a vehicle would present you as your sort of hardy, down to earth and simplistic kind of individualist? Well, do you really think that a car will do that? If you do then it would seem that Buefort is right. To buy a car in order to fool the world does seem to me a pretty gay sort of thing to do. Foppery.
This new vehicle will not have a practical application that I can determine. It won't get high fuel milage, it won't carry your soccer team well with so few doors, it won't do well offroad without extensive modification, it won't carry heavy loads. It just won't do anything all that well, or at least for any practical purpose, or even an impractical one or two, there already exists a better vehicle. So why consider this one at all?
Just wondering.....
Just curious, but what factory stock vehicle available in the US nowdays will do well offroad without extensive modification? The Hummer (real one, not H2/H3)? Jeep Rubicon? Did I miss any? Based on the published specs, I think that the FJ Cruiser will be able to handle slightly more difficult terrain than my current 4th gen 4Runner. I've taken my 4Runner on about every non-"vehicle damage likely" in Colorado and not had a single problem. Never had to break out my HiLift jack to get myself unstuck, haven't broken anything. Now, I love FJ-40s, but I will have to say that my 4Runner is a more capable off-road vehicle stock from the factory than an FJ-40 was when it was new. Can it be built up as much? Probably not. Even with the IFS instead of a solid axle.
While I don't share roadeyes sentiment with regard to intended use of an FJC, I also fail to understand the point of the constant single sentence bashing on a vehicle that doesn't yet exist. Okay, there is a large population of users on this forum that feels it is a betrayal of the LandCruiser legacy. Most of them started off by giving valid reasons for feeling that it is a betrayal. Why the constant need to interject the "It sucks" on every thread regarding the vehicle? Why bother even looking at the FJC section of the forums?
Here's why I feel that the FJ Cruiser may be worthy of consideration upon it's release:
It looks to have more headroom than the 4Runner (for me, this is an issue)
It has decent gas mileage and function as a daily driver for my 50mile daily commute.
It will be capable of traversing the majority of the 4WD trails I am interested in driving. I live in Kansas. To go rock crawling requires a road trip. To do any trails with greater difficulty than the FJC will be capable of handling will require others with purpose built 4WDs willing to go along. Not to mention towing the FJ-40 or CJ-7 or whatever the distance because they all have appaling highway comfort
The lack of interior carpeting is a plus. Got a place to dump my wet/muddy mtn biking/scuba/hunting gear.
I'm not in the "love it" camp, I'm not in the "hate it" camp. Based on available information, it is interesting enough for me to follow.
oukami said:
I'm going to have to call bs on that one.
But thats just my opinion
Trollhole said:
Based on what information? Where can a factory original FJ-40 go that a modern 4Runner can't? Have you ever taken a 4Runner wheeling? How many of the enthusiasts on this forum take their factory stock FJ-40s wheeling (serious question, I don't know...)? Or is it purely an "IFS sucks, so a 4Runner must not be able to go places my FJ-40 can" issue? If the FJ-40 was such a capable wheeling vehicle off the showroom floor, why do the serious wheelers all have aftermarket lockers and lifts. If the engine was so great, why are so many running small block chevy engines?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the FJ-40 is crap. They are great vehicles built for longevity under adverse conditions. However, they have issues just like every other vehicle ever made. Much of their capability is derived from the fact that there are so many aftermarket options available to build upon the platform supplied by Toyota. Can an FJ-40 be built into a far more trail worthy vehicle than a 4th Gen 4Runner? Without a doubt.
I value your opinion.
But there are a few deciding values. Solid front axle for better articulation, Better low end torque. Look at torqu numbers for a 2f. Shorter wheelbase.
But hey we are comparing a 30 year old vehicle to a vehicle that was design for some offroad use. A 40 was designed for one purpose. Off road, they just added extras to get a more main stream crowd. 4 runner went after that crowd from the get go. Still I like it. But I would put a stock 40 up against a stock 4runner anyday.
But there are a few deciding values. Solid front axle for better articulation, Better low end torque. Look at torqu numbers for a 2f. Shorter wheelbase.
But hey we are comparing a 30 year old vehicle to a vehicle that was design for some offroad use. A 40 was designed for one purpose. Off road, they just added extras to get a more main stream crowd. 4 runner went after that crowd from the get go. Still I like it. But I would put a stock 40 up against a stock 4runner anyday.
We used to take my Grandfathers 1957 Willy's Wagon places even the family FJ40 couldn't go. Always pulling that damn FJ40 out
And it wasn't the driver either, it didn't matter who was driving, the Jeep was more reliable and more capable. Both rigs had I6's and open diffs. Occasional wrenching on that damn FJ40, but the Jeep just kept on going strong.
The Jeep was purchased in Jan of 1958. In 1973, the FJ40 was purchased. They were subjected to the same conditions, only the Jeep was in service for 15 additional years. They were parked outside, next to each other, and used and abused in Wyoming. In 1992, the FJ40 was parted out and the rusted remnants were crushed. It had about 50,000 miles on it. That same year, I drove the completely original 1957 Willy's from WY to Socal. The Jeep also had about 50,000 miles on it. The vast majority of these miles were NOT on a paved road.
The Jeep was in good condition, after being subjected to over 30 years of abuse. What a fine vehicle it was. It was lovingly restored and driven until it burned up in the Cedar fire in 2003. Too bad the FJ40 was such a mess, I wanted to keep it for myself, but it was long gone.
The Jeep brand just got worse and worse every time someone bought them. Too bad, because the Willy's Jeeps were great trucks. I would consider owning an old Willy's again, but that is the only type of Jeep I like.
Now as far as the damn FJCruiser. It will go anywhere a stock FJ40 would have made it. It will certainly do it in more comfort, just not as much style. But who is willing to risk the body damage to a brand new vehicle?
BTW, how many of you guys actually drive your FJ40's to work? I'd rather commute in the FJCruiser or say drive to Moab from Socal in it.
And it wasn't the driver either, it didn't matter who was driving, the Jeep was more reliable and more capable. Both rigs had I6's and open diffs. Occasional wrenching on that damn FJ40, but the Jeep just kept on going strong.The Jeep was purchased in Jan of 1958. In 1973, the FJ40 was purchased. They were subjected to the same conditions, only the Jeep was in service for 15 additional years. They were parked outside, next to each other, and used and abused in Wyoming. In 1992, the FJ40 was parted out and the rusted remnants were crushed. It had about 50,000 miles on it. That same year, I drove the completely original 1957 Willy's from WY to Socal. The Jeep also had about 50,000 miles on it. The vast majority of these miles were NOT on a paved road.
The Jeep was in good condition, after being subjected to over 30 years of abuse. What a fine vehicle it was. It was lovingly restored and driven until it burned up in the Cedar fire in 2003. Too bad the FJ40 was such a mess, I wanted to keep it for myself, but it was long gone.
The Jeep brand just got worse and worse every time someone bought them. Too bad, because the Willy's Jeeps were great trucks. I would consider owning an old Willy's again, but that is the only type of Jeep I like.
Now as far as the damn FJCruiser. It will go anywhere a stock FJ40 would have made it. It will certainly do it in more comfort, just not as much style. But who is willing to risk the body damage to a brand new vehicle?
BTW, how many of you guys actually drive your FJ40's to work? I'd rather commute in the FJCruiser or say drive to Moab from Socal in it.
As soon as these guys, www.bentup.com , put a Dana 44 with a coil over 4link suspension up front I think people will STFU about the trail worthiness of the FJCruiser. They can make any Tacoma/4runner into a serious ROCKcrawler. AND yes, people are cutting the IFS off brand new Tacomas.
The FJ Cruiser: Is it ugly, Yes. But how many of your wives think your 40 looks good. My wife thinks my 40 is ugly as hell, she hates it. But for me that's the best part.
Is it a Land Cruiser, NO. But it is not supposed to be. It is a 2 door moderate offroader/daily driver. Also this is just the 1st year. Let's wait and see what happens with the aftermarket support, the Taco/4runner market is already huge.
I have been waiting since 1985 for Toyota to replace the FJ40. So I was dissapointed, but at least they are headed in the somewhat right direction.
When they put a 70 series up for sale in the States, that's the next time I will buy a new LC. Until then there are plenty of used 40s & 80s for us.
Jeff
The FJ Cruiser: Is it ugly, Yes. But how many of your wives think your 40 looks good. My wife thinks my 40 is ugly as hell, she hates it. But for me that's the best part.
Is it a Land Cruiser, NO. But it is not supposed to be. It is a 2 door moderate offroader/daily driver. Also this is just the 1st year. Let's wait and see what happens with the aftermarket support, the Taco/4runner market is already huge.
I have been waiting since 1985 for Toyota to replace the FJ40. So I was dissapointed, but at least they are headed in the somewhat right direction.
When they put a 70 series up for sale in the States, that's the next time I will buy a new LC. Until then there are plenty of used 40s & 80s for us.
Jeff
oukami said:
I can not speak for the FJ40, but I can tell you I drove a 100% stock out-of-the-showroom FJ70 for 10 years and went to places you won't ever think of taking your 4R or future FJCrapper without braking anything or getting any body damage. I got stuck a couple of times though.
BTW, it was also my DD
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