New EMSpowered exhaust thread

[NKP Garage]

I've got a system waiting for install as well, do you guys think the o2 sensor bolts should be stainless as well? I live in the rust belt and cant stand the rust, but stainless is not as strong and has a tendency to bind up in my experience. thanks

Yes, if you have to get new O2 bolts use either stainless or something that has been heat treated and is okay'd for high heat applications. I think we're going to start including new O2 gaskets and bolts in future shipments.

Jason, on the instructions. I'll be working on step by step instructions and detailed photos of the install process over the next couple weeks as time permits. It's a fairly simple installation once you start putting parts on, but I know for the first timers detaild instructions would be a huge help.

 

[rtson]

Is EFI reset needed?

My gas mileage has gone to hell since putting in the exhaust system, it sounds from what I am reading that an EFI reset may do it. I would like to add that an install guide and a parts list would be real helpful. I got the full header back system had someone put it in, and honestly I do not know what parts he used to do anything. I have the famous whistle and I thought I had seen a post quite a while ago that you were thinking of including the resonator. This cost me alot of $$$$ to lose performance. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Roy

 

[Nottajeep]

header back system installed (constructive feedback)

I had the header back system installed today. I am mother freak'n glad I didn't try this at home in the garage with wrenches. The local muffler shop was a life saver. Everything did not line up perfectly so some wielding and extra hanger brackets were required. Also added some rubber with the hangers to keep the vibes down. I really love the sound of the system after install, but I have the infamous whistle too. Based on my muffler guys hi tech sonograph system LOL (A rubber hose placed up to his ear). the only place I am possibly leaking is in the flex pipe, which is the cause of the "whistle" most likely. Also, had to remove one of the heat shields above the bent pipe for fit reasons (see photo). I recommend everyone replace the O2 sensor gaskets when doing this and only use Mr T's gaskets. But I do want to talk more with Baktash about the location of the first O2 sensor bung before the cat. Had to reroute the O2 wiring just to get it to reach and the sensor is now facing down with direct line of fire from any mud or rock slung from the tires. I took the O2 shield from the back sensor and put it on the front O2 for now. see photo

The CEL is on, but I will try the battery disconnect reset method.

I'm headed to GSMTR Tues so this is going to have to work for now, but I might take an extra O2 with me in case I break the front one off.

 

[Nottajeep]

Pic of front O2 facing down and my added shield

 

[Nottajeep]

Muffler guy recommends we put a gasket at this flange. What do you think Baktash?

 

[Nottajeep]

extra hanger added and heat shield above bent pipe removed. Muffler guy said this area shouldn't get too hot so it's probably ok to remove this and only this one heat shield. (also bent the heat shield brack back towards the floor in order to get the pipe through.

 

[Nottajeep]

added hanger above the muffler

 

[Nottajeep]

added hanger for the pretty chrome tip (also note the rubber is there to reduce vibe)

 

[rtson]

Dittos

I had the same issue with the 02 Sensor had to re-route to reach, and I agree that flange needs something it warps out in the middle and does not seal right, as thick as that metal is I was surprised to see it do that.
If the flexpipe is the source of the whistlen then the system is really in need of redesign?

By the way great pics!

 

[Sc0-]

Maybe change out the flange and go with a V-clamp and matching joint?

 

[NKP Garage]

My gas mileage has gone to **** since putting in the exhaust system, it sounds from what I am reading that an EFI reset may do it. I would like to add that an install guide and a parts list would be real helpful. I got the full header back system had someone put it in, and honestly I do not know what parts he used to do anything. I have the famous whistle and I thought I had seen a post quite a while ago that you were thinking of including the resonator. This cost me alot of $$$$ to lose performance. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Roy

Hi Roy,
You should not be losing performance with the new exhaust. Try resetting the ECU. Also, it may be the O2 sensors needing replacing. Are you certain that you put the rear O2 sensor in the rear and the front O2 sensor in the front?

I had the header back system installed today. I am mother freak'n glad I didn't try this at home in the garage with wrenches. The local muffler shop was a life saver. Everything did not line up perfectly so some wielding and extra hanger brackets were required. Also added some rubber with the hangers to keep the vibes down. I really love the sound of the system after install, but I have the infamous whistle too. Based on my muffler guys hi tech sonograph system LOL (A rubber hose placed up to his ear). the only place I am possibly leaking is in the flex pipe, which is the cause of the "whistle" most likely. Also, had to remove one of the heat shields above the bent pipe for fit reasons (see photo). I recommend everyone replace the O2 sensor gaskets when doing this and only use Mr T's gaskets. But I do want to talk more with Baktash about the location of the first O2 sensor bung before the cat. Had to reroute the O2 wiring just to get it to reach and the sensor is now facing down with direct line of fire from any mud or rock slung from the tires. I took the O2 shield from the back sensor and put it on the front O2 for now. see photo

The CEL is on, but I will try the battery disconnect reset method.

I'm headed to GSMTR Tues so this is going to have to work for now, but I might take an extra O2 with me in case I break the front one off.

Hi Jason,
They should not have had to weld or cut anything. I'll reply to each of the pics one by one on here to the best of my ability just going off of the photos.

Muffler guy recommends we put a gasket at this flange. What do you think Baktash?

This joint does not require a gasket. A gasket will not do anything at this spot other than possibly cause leaks. I would highly recommend against using a gasket there, as that joint was designed to be used without one.

extra hanger added and heat shield above bent pipe removed. Muffler guy said this area shouldn't get too hot so it's probably ok to remove this and only this one heat shield. (also bent the heat shield brack back towards the floor in order to get the pipe through.

That is NOT an "extra" hanger. If you look closely CUT the hanger that we put on the pipe that would have normally bolted to the bracket already on the frame of the car. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by cutting off our hanger and welding a new one on. The EMSPowered hanger should line up perfectly on your truck. Photo of the EMSPowered hanger that the muffler shop cut off here:

http://emspowered.com/images/products/landcruiser/fzj80exhaust/final/hanger.jp

added hanger above the muffler

Again, all they've done is CUT off our hanger and weld their own on. Not sure why they would do this. Seems quite suspect why they would cut off perfectly fine tig welded hangers just to mig weld on a couple of homemade hangers.
Photo of the the EMSPowered hanger after the muffer that they've cut off:

added hanger for the pretty chrome tip (also note the rubber is there to reduce vibe)

Again, another hanger that they cut off just to weld on another one of their own. See the same photo above. There's already a hanger in that same exact spot near the exhaust tip on the EMSPowered exhaust as it comes.

I had the same issue with the 02 Sensor had to re-route to reach, and I agree that flange needs something it warps out in the middle and does not seal right, as thick as that metal is I was surprised to see it do that.
If the flexpipe is the source of the whistlen then the system is really in need of redesign?

By the way great pics!

You still have to use gaskets at the O2 sensor bungs. We use very thick flanges to avoid all possible warping during welding but there will always be slight imperfections at the welded on flanges. As far as the wires for the front O2 sensor, the position is every so slightly different from stock, so you do have to give the wire a bit of slack by removing one of the clips that hold it to the chassis.

Maybe change out the flange and go with a V-clamp and matching joint?

Not sure why you'd put a v-band clamp anywhere in the system other than for easy install/removal. Sure, we can put in v-band clamps but that just doesn't make sense.

 

[little_joe]

I'd never done a full cat-back exhaust and after staring at the stock system and EMS system, doing it at home turned out to be dead simple. Jason it looks like your exhaust shop hacked up a perfectly good system for no reason - Baktash built it so it could be easily adjusted using stock hangers.

I too was concerned about the front O2 and moved the shield from the rear to the front. After 3 wheeling trips, no issues whatsoever and I've quit worrying about it.

I have not reset the ECU since installing the exhaust and have OEM O2's that are maybe 2 yrs old. My mpg has gone up since installing this exhaust. I've tracked every tank of gas I've put in the truck: my low so far with EMS was 12.44 mpg (wheeling trip), best has been 15.07mpg and overall I'm right around 14.4mpg (corrected for tire size). My running mpg for the past 3.5 yrs (prior to the exhaust) was right at 14mpg.

 

[rtson]

Gas mileage down from 13-14 to 9

Baktasht; the installer just left the O2 sensor hanging he did not put in studs, I did that myself. Since it is a 96 I do not think they could be switched on the other hand they came with the vehicle and I do not know how old they are. I used to get occasional O2 sensor errors but not since I put in the exhaust, Maybe I need to replace them. I did the ECU reset seems better for now. Drove about 60 miles rountrip tonite and it seems to be running better. Great Thrread thanks to all. Roy

 

[NKP Garage]

Baktasht; the installer just left the O2 sensor hanging he did not put in studs, I did that myself. Since it is a 96 I do not think they could be switched on the other hand they came with the vehicle and I do not know how old they are. I used to get occasional O2 sensor errors but not since I put in the exhaust, Maybe I need to replace them. I did the ECU reset seems better for now. Drove about 60 miles rountrip tonite and it seems to be running better. Great Thrread thanks to all. Roy

That's good to hear Roy. If you start getting odd performance issues again it may be worth throwing in a couple of new O2 sensors. As old as these trucks are now, the original O2 sensors have definitely seen better days.

 

[Nottajeep]

Re hacked up system

Well, #1 I did a header back system instead of a cat back system like you. And like I previously stated the system did not fit together correctly without some moving parts around and adding hangers where needed. I personally stood under the vehicle the entire time the truck was worked on and he clearly showed me where things did not line up. The guy was only charging me $90 for the install and it took 2.5-3hrs so I don't see any reason he would have for hidden motives to alter this system. Obviously for that price, he would want to get it done the fastest and most simple way.

#2 The system is not "hacked up". All the same parts where the exhaust flows are the same. Adding a wield for a hanger is very minor change IMHO. Plus going through the system and using a fist bump to check for wiggle or vibrating parts. Bottomline is: I am happy with the install.

My personal opinion on this is just like Baktasht states all LC frames and bodies are not identical. I say all of the EMS systems are not identical either. Therefore, variation is bound to happen and people are going to have to adapt one way or another. I will be very curious to see how many people are able to actually get this system on in their driveway with a standard issue toolbox. If you read back through this post... and other post re EMS, I am not the only who has experienced difficulties with fit. So the facts are out there.

Now, one thing I don't see on this thread since yesterday is talk about how the heck we are going to solve this annoying whistle.

I'd never done a full cat-back exhaust and after staring at the stock system and EMS system, doing it at home turned out to be dead simple. Jason it looks like your exhaust shop hacked up a perfectly good system for no reason - Baktash built it so it could be easily adjusted using stock hangers.

I too was concerned about the front O2 and moved the shield from the rear to the front. After 3 wheeling trips, no issues whatsoever and I've quit worrying about it.

I have not reset the ECU since installing the exhaust and have OEM O2's that are maybe 2 yrs old. My mpg has gone up since installing this exhaust. I've tracked every tank of gas I've put in the truck: my low so far with EMS was 12.44 mpg (wheeling trip), best has been 15.07mpg and overall I'm right around 14.4mpg (corrected for tire size). My running mpg for the past 3.5 yrs (prior to the exhaust) was right at 14mpg.

 

[NKP Garage]

Jason, I don't think anyone thinks you had hidden motives. Just seems like the guy at the exhaust shop was a bit too quick about wanting to cut off the existing hangers and weld new ones of his own on. I'll give you a ring here in a couple of minutes. Finally got a free moment away from my wife (it's been one of those weekends )

 

[little_joe]

Hi Jason, I did not mean "hacked up" in the literal sense (i.e. he didn't ghetto-fab it). My apologies for the misunderstanding! I did install the complete system, retaining only the stock exhaust manifold - and found that after test-fitting and tweaking, the system bolted right up. I see you may have had some potential issues due to the rust of the stock hangers as well, which would require new brackets.

Anyway, it is an awesome system! I'd like to completely rid myself of the whistle as well, as it stands now it only happens at very specific throttle positions so for me it's not bad. Check your exhaust manifold studs/nuts, one of mine had loosened up considerably which made the whistle constant (they are 46 flt lbs iirc). I used copper gaskets at the exhaust manifold, I am considering loosening up the system and applying some copper-based exhaust sealant on those gaskets.

 

[Nottajeep]

Hi Jason, I did not mean "hacked up" in the literal sense (i.e. he didn't ghetto-fab it). My apologies for the misunderstanding! I did install the complete system, retaining only the stock exhaust manifold - and found that after test-fitting and tweaking, the system bolted right up. I see you may have had some potential issues due to the rust of the stock hangers as well, which would require new brackets.

Anyway, it is an awesome system! I'd like to completely rid myself of the whistle as well, as it stands now it only happens at very specific throttle positions so for me it's not bad. Check your exhaust manifold studs/nuts, one of mine had loosened up considerably which made the whistle constant (they are 46 flt lbs iirc). I used copper gaskets at the exhaust manifold, I am considering loosening up the system and applying some copper-based exhaust sealant on those gaskets.

little_joe
My gaskets at the y-pipe have failed and I'm leaking. Where did you get the copper gaskets?
Also, Baktasht has sent me another set to install, but if you have a better material, I'm willing to look at it.

 

[little_joe]

Hi Jason, I sourced SCE copper gaskets from Summit Racing, 2-hole 2.25" ID. I can get the specific P/N if you need it. I bet Mr. Gasket or any other brand would be fine, and likely local auto parts stores will either have them in stock or can get them quickly. Sorry to hear you're having this issue.

 

[NKP Garage]

little_joe
My gaskets at the y-pipe have failed and I'm leaking. Where did you get the copper gaskets?
Also, Baktasht has sent me another set to install, but if you have a better material, I'm willing to look at it.

Hi Jason,
I sent out the replacement gaskets for you. One thing to keep in mind, when a flange connection is loose it will burn through the gasket eventually, sometimes quickly and sometimes it takes a while. Best thing to do with exhaust connections that are at or near the cylinder head on any vehicle is to re-check the bolts/nuts after a few heat cycles. Sometimes you end up needing to re-tighten them after a little driving after they settle a bit.

The copper gaskets are nice as well, they don't provide as much "cushion" as the ones we use, but they'll last longer especially if there is a slight leak. If you get a slight leak when using the copper gaskets due to there not being enough gasket thickness to absorb the any flange imperfections you may need to double up on the gaskets.

I think the one's little_joe used are SCE 4225 shown here: SCE Gaskets 4225 - SCE Pro Copper Embossed Exhaust Flange Gaskets - Overview - SummitRacing.com