Builds MTKID's LX on 40's @tiny_the_200

[MTKID]

I’m going to recommend a new tire in a relatively new size that I would have tried had it been available when I was going to 37’s for the first time. Harry Wagner just posted this on his Instagram feed…

I asked if it came in the unique Nitto size 38x12.5r17 and he said no, but it is listed as available in a 37x11.5r17. That would be my recommendation for anyone going forward. Unless you specifically want a M/T tire. These also show a weight of 70.6, which is very good for a 37”

EDIT: Reviews on this tire don't seem very good. So as much as I want to see a killer tire in a 37x11.5R17, I don't think this is it

 

[grinchy]

I’m going to recommend a new tire in a relatively new size that I would have tried had it been available when I was going to 37’s for the first time. Harry Wagner just posted this on his Instagram feed…View attachment 3109232
I asked if it came in the unique Nitto size 38x12.5r17 and he said no, but it is listed as available in a 37x11.5r17. That would be my recommendation for anyone going forward. Unless you specifically want a M/T tire. These also show a weight of 70.6, which is very good for a 37”

Nice find! I've been casually looking around for a 37" skinny for a 17" rim, not a lot of candidates . . . .

 

[Wicked0ne18]

@MTKID do u carry a full spare?

 

[grinchy]

recon grappler specs

37x11.50R17LT D 128R	218650	16.9	36.54	11.42	7.5-(9.0)-10.0	3970 @ 65	70.6

 

[MTKID]

@MTKID do u carry a full spare?

I have been carrying my full size 40 laid down flat and strapped in the back so far. I may do an interior mount to put it upright on the driver’s side. It’s just tough to pack on top of. It takes up a lot of space, and I want to build some interior cargo drawers and a place for a fridge.

 

[TeCKis300]

@grinchy chiming in here...

The wheel width also has a lot to do with what all needs to be done. Same as how much easier a 35x10.50 will fit easier than a 12.50

I have a +25mm wheel that still tucks inside the fenders because it's a 7.5" wide wheel. So while I'm sitting 10mm more outside the hub than a +35mm wheel I'm also 6.25mm more inboard than a 8" wide RW wheel thats spaced out to +25 with wheel spacers. And 12.5mm more inboard than a 17x8.5 icon +25 wheel. I also made sure I have my alignment towards the very lower end of the positive camber. I think I'm at +.03*

You guys definitely helped me figure all this out with your trials over years of ownership; so thanks for that!

I never rubbed on the unmodified body mounts with the 315/70's and saw an inch of clearance everywhere except that BM, the rear fender pinch welds, and mud flaps when tucking rear tires. I'm also stock weight and don't take it hardcore rock crawling. Just a few things to keep in mind. It ain't easy, but it's also not that hard to make them work. Just takes some patience.

If by wheel width, you mean tire width, than I agree. Wheel width only impacts sidewall profile, and doesn't change the centerline of the tire and the tire shoulder extents. We know that tire width can be traded for tire height for clearance to a degree. That starts getting harder and harder with bigger tires as multiple things get in the way.

Definitely agree with caster. Though adding caster with the LCA means pulling the tire centerline towards the front of the car. Adding caster with the UCA bring it towards the BM. So ideally to create clearance against the BM, means stock UCA caster geometry, while dialing in as much as possible with the LCA.

 

[MTKID]

@eimkeith ’s PCK (panhard correction kit) installed…

 

[TeCKis300]

@eimkeith ’s PCK (panhard correction bracket) installed…
View attachment 3114281View attachment 3114283

You did that with a quickness! Nicely done.

 

[outlaw4shrt]

Moved the rear lower shock mounts up to the next hole w/ 3/4” fine thread grade 8 bolts…
View attachment 3104275View attachment 3104276
Then added a 3/4” aluminum spacer to my Timbren bumpstops…
View attachment 3104277
…and of course, had one bolt snap off that was holding this bumpstop in, so we put a small weld that could easily be ground off if needed…
View attachment 3104278
…and the Toytec Tundra extended brakes lines that were recommended…
View attachment 3104283

Now to get out to the mountains and test it

Can you talk a little more about your process here? Did you just tap the hole through the folded steel plates of the lower shock mount for the 3/4" bolt and bolt everything up? It looks like you may have welded on a plate to the face of the shock mount because it looks freshly painted there, but I am not sure... Did you weld the bolt in place? Did you put any kind of spacer between the folded plates of the lower shock mount?

If I am tracking correctly, for the rear suspension you have:
- added 30mm spring spacers
- raised the rear shock mount about an inch by tapping a hole an inch higher than stock for a 3/4" grade 8 bolt
- PKC
- Timbren bumpstops
- extended rear brake lines
- ... is that it???

 

[outlaw4shrt]

I’m going to recommend a new tire in a relatively new size that I would have tried had it been available when I was going to 37’s for the first time. Harry Wagner just posted this on his Instagram feed…View attachment 3109232
I asked if it came in the unique Nitto size 38x12.5r17 and he said no, but it is listed as available in a 37x11.5r17. That would be my recommendation for anyone going forward. Unless you specifically want a M/T tire. These also show a weight of 70.6, which is very good for a 37”

Oh man, I'm currently in the market for new tires and had convinced myself to avoid the temptation of 37's and go 35's, but these have got me thinking. At about 70 lbs, they are 2lbs lighter than the 35" Falken Wildpeaks...

 

[MTKID]

Can you talk a little more about your process here? Did you just tap the hole through the folded steel plates of the lower shock mount for the 3/4" bolt and bolt everything up? It looks like you may have welded on a plate to the face of the shock mount because it looks freshly painted there, but I am not sure... Did you weld the bolt in place? Did you put any kind of spacer between the folded plates of the lower shock mount?

If I am tracking correctly, for the rear suspension you have:
- added 30mm spring spacers
- raised the rear shock mount about an inch by tapping a hole an inch higher than stock for a 3/4" grade 8 bolt
- PKC
- Timbren bumpstops
- extended rear brake lines
- ... is that it???

There is a hole already existing that is about 2” above the factory mount (which I’m leaving intact for now, in case I want to use a longer shock that has a longer compressed length). It is too small to fit the 3/4” bolt through so I used a step bit and got it to the size we needed. Then my fabricator cut a piece of 1/4” thick plate to reinforce the front, welded that on, then cut a small piece of 1.5” tubing that had a 3/4” inside diameter to about .5” length and welded that on. We chose not to weld the bolt on for now. And structurally, the 3/4” bolt should be quite a bit stronger than the factory mount considering it’s not a solid bolt.

-So I now have the Trail Tamer rear coils with 50mm coil spacers on top (w/o the inner coil bumpstop).
-Rear lower shock mount is up about 2”.
-PCK
-Timbren Bumpstops w/ 3/4” aluminum spacers
-Extended brake lines
-Obligatory sensor adjustment

 

[MTKID]

Oh man, I'm currently in the market for new tires and had convinced myself to avoid the temptation of 37's and go 35's, but these have got me thinking. At about 70 lbs, they are 2lbs lighter than the 35" Falken Wildpeaks...

I think rotating weight (wheels & tires and maybe brakes if we’re talking a performance car with light options) are often overlooked. I’m sure there’s a balance of strength for applications like desert racing but in my use case, slow crawling, I’ve chosen lighter, confident that they won’t leave me stranded. Part of me still wishes I could have found a set of 42” MT/R’s considering their light weight close to these 40’s but some buggy guys that crawl in sharp rocks say their sidewall is too weak for their terrain. I’d like to think they would have survived my applications. …but possibly not the rest of my drivetrain

 

[TeCKis300]

There is a hole already existing that is about 2” above the factory mount (which I’m leaving intact for now, in case I want to use a longer shock that has a longer compressed length). It is too small to fit the 3/4” bolt through so I used a step bit and got it to the size we needed. Then my fabricator cut a piece of 1/4” thick plate to reinforce the front, welded that on, then cut a small piece of 1.5” tubing that had a 3/4” inside diameter to about .5” length and welded that on. We chose not to weld the bolt on for now. And structurally, the 3/4” bolt should be quite a bit stronger than the factory mount considering it’s not a solid bolt. View attachment 3119501View attachment 3119502
-So I now have the Trail Tamer rear coils with 50mm coil spacers on top (w/o the inner coil bumpstop).
-Rear lower shock mount is up about 2”.
-PCK
-Timbren Bumpstops w/ 3/4” aluminum spacers
-Extended brake lines
-Obligatory sensor adjustment

Nicely done.

One of the things I'm wrapping my mind around is how the stock shock mount was designed. It's a bit more critical as a single sheer configuration for a high load point. The factory mount is a statically welded shaft. That then relies on a bolt, through the shaft to retain the shock. Possibly also to give compressive support and strength to the welded shaft. OEM design is a lot about managing long term durability and stress risers, so there's more than meets the eye.

I do believe a solid 3/4" bolt could work, but there might be some things to watch because the bolt is completely in tensile, rather than a hybrid compressed shaft in the factory setup. Hopefully the bolt is not threaded at the point of where the shock eyelet meets the standoff because of the sheer concentration there. Also that it's fine thread. The concern is that threads make a stress riser, and over enough time, stress, and cycles, could be a breakage point.

It's part of why I chose to modify the shock. Then again, I'm always itching for more and this is so tempting.

 

[MTKID]

Nicely done.

One of the things I'm wrapping my mind around is how the stock shock mount was designed. It's a bit more critical as a single sheer configuration for a high load point. The factory mount is a statically welded shaft. That then relies on a bolt, through the shaft to retain the shock. Possibly also to give compressive support and strength to the welded shaft. OEM design is a lot about managing long term durability and stress risers, so there's more than meets the eye.

I do believe a solid 3/4" bolt could work, but there might be some things to watch because the bolt is completely in tensile, rather than a hybrid compressed shaft in the factory setup. Hopefully the bolt is not threaded at the point of where the shock eyelet meets the standoff because of the sheer concentration there. Also that it's fine thread. The concern is that threads make a stress riser, and over enough time, stress, and cycles, could be a breakage point.

It's part of why I chose to modify the shock. Then again, I'm always itching for more and this is so tempting.

I always appreciate your input those additional considerations all make sense. I hadn’t thought about the combined strength of the stud and bolt inside of it.
And yes, my fabricator really doesn’t like to see any load sitting on threads, so the bolts have very little threads inside of the shocks, and none inside the lower mount we fabricated. I’d like to eventually find a long-term solution that checks all my boxes for adjustability, massive droop, and ride height adjustment. And of course, some affordability. So far, I’ll keep tinkering with these rather inexpensive modifications and small but helpful improvements.
I am really excited to hear (or maybe try) how the LX600 rear shocks react with the rest of the 570 AHC system. They’re only $58/shock (part# 4853080B07 Fronts are # 4851080B88 ) for the rears! I’ll spend more in AHC fluid to swap them on to try them.

 

[Jason Andrews]

If by wheel width, you mean tire width, than I agree. Wheel width only impacts sidewall profile, and doesn't change the centerline of the tire and the tire shoulder extents. We know that tire width can be traded for tire height for clearance to a degree. That starts getting harder and harder with bigger tires as multiple things get in the way.

Definitely agree with caster. Though adding caster with the LCA means pulling the tire centerline towards the front of the car. Adding caster with the UCA bring it towards the BM. So ideally to create clearance against the BM, means stock UCA caster geometry, while dialing in as much as possible with the LCA.

That's what I'm referring to with regard to trading width for height. I had a reply to this drafted right after, but never posted and it disappeared.

I meant specifically wheel width. Yes, width impacts sidewall profile. That's part of what I'm saying. If the tread of the outer F/R tire tucks inside the outer fender then 2-4 inches of compressions beyond that has a lot to do with the bulge of the sidewall and whether or not the tire sidewall impacts the outer fender right? Explicitly when both left and right sides rears compress at the same time since there is less extension on the other side and hence the tires are closer to the outer fenders. That's also when negative CAMBER comes into play in the front. Not talking about caster.

On extension/compression the same principle on wheel width applies to the inner fender in the rear and the front UCA. I have heard what sounded like inner rear fender contact when towing a trailer and flexing in my driveway.

That said, the width vastly effects the front steering "wag" for the lack of better term at the moment. Admittedly, my tires do mildly contact the sway bar, but if I had 9" wide wheels IMHO that would be worse. I'm at a hard stop at 37's and @MTKID has done the work to make all the Jeeps envy his rubber size.

If you can do that and beat them on the on ramp to the highway merge point- its like running Pritchett Canyon and driving past a broken Jeep party mid trail in the everyday world

 

[MTKID]

Pritchett I can’t wait to try that trail and I hope to make it out in one piece. Certainly not too proud to winch as much as necessary. I enjoy those foreign country winching competitions and feel like good practice using your recovery gear safely makes you smarter using it.

Quick little update - This is how far I’m able to move the AHC components up along the frame rail before I start on the sliders. About 1 5/8” for the majority. And still a fingers width above the accumulators.

Only 1 1/4” for the rear most component.

I usually try not to post until I have a little more progress to prove the concept but who cares. It either works or it doesn’t. I’ll share either way.

Speaking of trying things. I have 1.75” .095 wall Docol R8 on its way for the slider material (1.5” .095 for some support pieces). Trying to create the best balance between weight and strength. We’ll see how it holds up.

And the snorkel is done getting paint matched at the body shop. Might get to it next week

 

[TeCKis300]

Moving the AHC guts is a labor of love. Good stuff.

 

[grinchy]

Pritchett I can’t wait to try that trail and I hope to make it out in one piece. Certainly not too proud to winch as much as necessary. I enjoy those foreign country winching competitions and feel like good practice using your recovery gear safely makes you smarter using it.

Quick little update - This is how far I’m able to move the AHC components up along the frame rail before I start on the sliders. About 1 5/8” for the majority. And still a fingers width above the accumulators.
View attachment 3135465
Only 1 1/4” for the rear most component.
View attachment 3135466
I usually try not to post until I have a little more progress to prove the concept but who cares. It either works or it doesn’t.

Speaking of trying things. I have 1.75” .095 wall Docol R8 on its way for the slider material (1.5” .095 for some support pieces). Trying to create the perfect balance between weight and strength. We’ll see how it holds up.

And the snorkel is done getting paint matched at the body shop. Might get to it next week

View attachment 3135480

Are you planning to push the ahc stuff up, or just wanting to put the slider plate behind? The metaltech lx slider goes behind, so it can certainly be done.

 

[MTKID]

Are you planning to push the ahc stuff up, or just wanting to put the slider plate behind? The metaltech lx slider goes behind, so it can certainly be done.

Yes, with my body lift, I have a bit of available space to move it all up by the measurements I listed above. Then the sliders will angle up more through cutouts in the rocker panel. And finally, the plan is to skin the bottom of the sliders with 1/8” aluminum and UHMW completely protecting the AHC components but maintaining the most amount of clearance. Ideally the flat aluminum will be just below the bottom of the rocker panel. This is essentially the same thing I did with my 80 series, except I just had UHMW and no aluminum backer plates.

 

[MTKID]

Well, that didn’t go quite the way I pictured it

Must have been shipped the wrong part. The one they have pictured on an LX appears to fit perfectly. But after a not insignificant amount of money to have this paint matched I may have to work with it.