Moroccan Atlas - 1FZ-FE Coolant Temp high (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Aug 10, 2019
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Location
Germany
Hi everybody, I crossed half of Europe, the Mediterrainean Sea and reached the Moroccan Atlas. What became obvious since riding the highways in south of Spain is the that the coolant temp rises on long-stretched up-hill sections.
Even more now in Morocco on the steep pass roads. It is 1/5 of the whole range left to the red mark. Then I go very low throttle or turn over and let it cool down in idle. The needle always comes down to the center of the gauge range and stays there as usual until the next climb. Never had issues with increased heat but ambient temperature over here is 38°C and exceeds sometimes the 40°C mark. I intended to go until Merzouga Drâa-Tafilalet but do not dare because of even more heat in the Sahara. Any ideas how to improve the heat capability - not for immediate - but as a preventive action when back home? Does a larger radiator core really help as flow rate depends on the anatomy of the water pump and the engine revs. And will the thermostat constrict too much? What about a larger oil cooler mounted on top of the engine (with fans) and a ventilated hood?
Cheers

WhatsApp Image 2023-08-07 at 21.21.51.jpg
 
Pretty cool way to travel!

My first thought would be a weak fan clutch!
Thanks, the fan turns, might not properly engaged... I will check it.
 
Your rig with a well maintained cooling system should have no problems in those temps and driving conditions.

Is the radiator original? How old is the fluid?

Make sure to check your radiator cap, even an old radiator cap that doesn't hold the proper pressure will greatly reduce cooling efficiency.

The 80 series is an amazing capable rig but they are also pushing 25 - 30 years old. Oil and cooling are the 2 things that need to be maintained or there will be catastrophic damage, especially with the head gasket on the 1fz-fe.

At a minimum I would make sure the radiator, cap, thermostat, fan clutch, hoses, and heater control valve were good to go before attempting the kind of travel you are doing.

Goodluck
 
* Rebuild Cooling fan clutch (replace silicone oil and adjust fit earlier on)
* Replace cooling fan clutch.
* Radiator cap
* Change coolant
* Make sure the foam around the radiator to radiator supports is still intact. If not, replace foam.
 
Ditto all above; the Thermostat may appear to be working normally if you just look at the factory temp gauge, but IME it gets sluggish with age (slower opening, slower closing, not opening fully), so if the Tstat is old, original, or unknown, might help to replace it with an OEM part (along with all the other things mentioned above).

Assume you don't have anything blocking air flow in front of the radiator?
Any issues with the cooling system previously, has any sealant been added to the system in the past??

Maybe post up a photo or two of your engine bay including the radiator?
 
I had a 2 year old Copper/Brass CSF and was experiencing similar issues. Recently placed a Ron Davis radiator in it and solved what you describe.

Couple of questions and considerations.

1) Is your temp gauge stock or modified with the Zener Diode and Resistor? Factory the temp gauge only moves to the middle and denotes a safe temp. Modified the gauge reflects movement as the temp changes. Possibly non US markets had this set up instead of a dumb gauge that just denotes a safe area and doesn't move.

2) Is the foam in place and intact that seals the Radiator to the core support? Really makes a huge difference. Hardware store variants are better than none.

3)Auto or Manual? Auto trans with converter lock up issues or drum, clutch pack or band issues can generate vasts amounts of heat which is run through the radiator. I was worried I had a slippy trans on hill ascents creating my heat but confimed it was not.

4) What condition is your AC Condensor? If it is flattened or full of bugs or debris air flow is impeded. You should be able to disengage the A/C and wach temps decrease as you are pulling the hill.

5) Ensure you have a good 50/50 mix of antifreeze and H2O. Straight H2O will not transfer heat to the metal of the radiator as quickly as a mixture. Rusty or dirty antifreeze will make a vehicle run hotter.

6) A compromised fuel filter or fuel inlet sock that is stopped up can flatten on high rpm pulls causing a leaner mixture to each cylinder. Leaner engines run hotter.

 
Ensure you have a good 50/50 mix of antifreeze and H2O. Straight H2O will not transfer heat to the metal of the radiator as quickly as a mixture. Rusty or dirty antifreeze will make a vehicle run hotter.
I would have to disagree. Antifreeze is just that freeze protection. The best cooling will always be straight water.
 
I would have to disagree. Antifreeze is just that freeze protection. The best cooling will always be straight water.

The study of Ethylene Glycol and Water as well as various mixtures of each is quite fascinating. I agree with your statement but within the confines of a closed system without a continuous supply of fresh make up water ethylene glycol/water solutions is better. Ethylene Glycol actually raises the boiling point when added to water which is very good for us!

The specific heat of ethylene Glycol based water solutions are less than the specific heat of destilled water and cooling systems designed for use with ethylene glycol must have the circulated volume increased compared to a system only with water. In a 50/50 solutions operating above 36 degrees F the specific heat capacity is decreased approximately 20%. The reduced heat capacity is compensated for by circulating more fluid. This changes considerably as water nears boiling point within a closed system without make up water. Bulk boiling provides robust heat transfer provided the steam bubbles are carried away from the heat transfer surface and the surface is continually supplied with liquid water. When this cannot occur partial film boiling results and the whole thing becomes nasty 🥵quickly! Steam has a lower convective heat transfer coefficient than water. Thus when steam patches or bubbles form on the heat transfer surface (internals of radiator, water jacket, etc.) they effectively insulate the surface from water making heat difficult. As the steam coverage of the heat transfer surface increases the temperature of the surface increases radically and heat shed from the surface decreases. This unstable situation continues until the affected surface is covered by an envelope of steam. At this point there is no contact between the heat transfer surface and the water in the center of the flow channel and Film Boiling is achieved. It is also at this point or not long 💥after that something within the cooling system relieves pressure - hopefully the 13 psi rated cap and not the head gasket.
 
Thanks a lot for your support. I am attaching a link showing some pics of the engine bay and the open radiator cap.


The coolant is obviously heavily corroded and some grumpy small particles are floating in there. Needs to be flushed...
HG including radiator cap has been changed 15000mls ago - total milage 316000mls.
And secondly the fan seems to be turn but when engine hot it is easy to turn by hand. Clutch might not engage properly but no spilled visco fluid is around.
Has to be changed...

In the beginning the fuel milage was very good considering all the load. On the flat stretches 13.5 mpg (Germany/France). In mixed conditions with AC on it is 12.5 mpg. It has been some more until the exchange of the O2 sensors and the whole exhaust pipes including the cats - it improved. Even applied new the gaskets (both!) between the exhaust manifold and the down pipe a month ago they are blown again - it f#!& noisy now. Impossible to get them here, any parts - no way.

The coolant is mixed to cope with low temperatures and to prevent corrosion - which it obviously does not do.

The fuel filter I have not check - but bad coolant and fan issue might be the main contributor.

It is an automatic as any LX450. In the sand you really feel the slippage between torque converter pump and turbine.

The foam around the radiator I have not checked but I guess it is all powdered. I would have been more meticulous but ever since the overheating has not been an issue.

What is meant by heater control valve? The one above cylinder #6 on the bulkhead.

A lot of components of the AC unit are new - including condensor and compressor.

Engine oil has been changed prior departure as well as spark plugs and distributor cap. Oil consumption half gallon on 2500 mls.

Thanks for keeping up.
 
 
What is meant by heater control valve? The one above cylinder #6 on the bulkhead.
Yes, these are known to fail catastrophically if they are original.

Sounds like you need a coolant change and a new fan clutch.


Goodluck
 
Thanks a lot for your support. I am attaching a link showing some pics of the engine bay and the open radiator cap.


The coolant is obviously heavily corroded and some grumpy small particles are floating in there. Needs to be flushed...
HG including radiator cap has been changed 15000mls ago - total milage 316000mls.
And secondly the fan seems to be turn but when engine hot it is easy to turn by hand. Clutch might not engage properly but no spilled visco fluid is around.
Has to be changed...

In the beginning the fuel milage was very good considering all the load. On the flat stretches 13.5 mpg (Germany/France). In mixed conditions with AC on it is 12.5 mpg. It has been some more until the exchange of the O2 sensors and the whole exhaust pipes including the cats - it improved. Even applied new the gaskets (both!) between the exhaust manifold and the down pipe a month ago they are blown again - it f#!& noisy now. Impossible to get them here, any parts - no way.

The coolant is mixed to cope with low temperatures and to prevent corrosion - which it obviously does not do.

The fuel filter I have not check - but bad coolant and fan issue might be the main contributor.

It is an automatic as any LX450. In the sand you really feel the slippage between torque converter pump and turbine.

The foam around the radiator I have not checked but I guess it is all powdered. I would have been more meticulous but ever since the overheating has not been an issue.

What is meant by heater control valve? The one above cylinder #6 on the bulkhead.

A lot of components of the AC unit are new - including condensor and compressor.

Engine oil has been changed prior departure as well as spark plugs and distributor cap. Oil consumption half gallon on 2500 mls.

Thanks for keeping up.
Your photos need a Google sign in to access. I cannot see them.

You can post all your photos directly into this thread. It limits you to five per post. But you can make as many posts as you like. This way they are also not "linked" somewhere and get lost or lose the link for future members.
 
1FZ-FE Coolant IssueYour photos need a Google sign in to access. I cannot see them.

You can post all your photos directly into this thread. It limits you to five per post. But you can make as many posts as you like. This way they are also not "linked" somewhere and get lost or lose the link for future members.
Here are the pics...
Somehow not all did up-load
 

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Here are the pics...
Somehow not all did up-load
Should have been in .jpg, not .pdf.

It's difficult to attach .pdf.
There are size limits on all. Need to shrink some pics.
 
Finally

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I find the temperature gauge in the 80 to be useless. I have a Scangauge mounted on the steering column to monitor temperature, voltage, and rpms.

In addition, @Beast of Berlin your cooling system is overdue for a flush. That's a lot of rust which can impact water flow through the block and heater core. Your coolant should look like red or green koolaid depending on which coolant you install. There's a lot of debate between red vs green. In my reading, red is superior for older vehicles but green is a LOT cheaper and easier to find.

This isn't my Scangauge but it gives you some idea of the mounting location. The metrics are individually set and the background color can be changed.

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