Mojave Suspension System Build Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bandicoot
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- Thread starter
- #142
Simple Update
Have a few questions PM'd to Dave(4+), when those are answered will trigger the direction of further work to do. For now though ordered my shocks today, went ahead a got the 5125's front and rear from eshocks.
Decided I'm going to do a ram assist and get rid of the OME steering stabilizer altogether
Went thru Mace's post on steering box rebuild and ram assist and will order the parts and assemble the system myself. Have a spare steering box so I can do it without undue pressure and have the shopping list for Surplus Center hydraulic stuff. Figure if I have to weld brackets might as well go big
Have a few questions PM'd to Dave(4+), when those are answered will trigger the direction of further work to do. For now though ordered my shocks today, went ahead a got the 5125's front and rear from eshocks.
Decided I'm going to do a ram assist and get rid of the OME steering stabilizer altogether Went thru Mace's post on steering box rebuild and ram assist and will order the parts and assemble the system myself. Have a spare steering box so I can do it without undue pressure and have the shopping list for Surplus Center hydraulic stuff. Figure if I have to weld brackets might as well go big- Thread starter
- #143
Game Plan
After some great discussion with Dave (4+) regarding some of the conditions I am dealing with it makes more sense now or at least clarifies what's going on.
First, I prolly will not move the rear axel back as on the perches as suggested. One reason is there is so much travel on the rear axel the tire under stuff conditions will be only 1/2" to 3/4" from the fender lip with 33's. If I move it back I may have the tire shoved into the fender lips
No, I'm not going to trim the fenders
Next Dave made a point that even when you remove stock shocks on stock springs the rear DS cant be removed from flange because you cannot clear the pinion hub yet there is no bind and DS spins freely. The only condition that may be of concern would be both rear wheels off ground at the same time, not a realistic situation in a 60
So if I want to jump my 60 I guess I should redo the rear DS length I do notice that even with lots of wheel travel at the rear there is very little movement at the rear DS. Now, the front with a SR is a whole different situation! The movement at the front axel is amazing with these springs and you really need to pay attention to clearance issues
Concerning the need for notching the cross member for the front DS clearance, this is an issue depending on the year of 60 I knew this but did not even think about it! Earlier years the 4-speeds don't have the 5th speed spacer in the tranny, mine is a 87'! Therefore the flange is set further back! In early years the DS flange clears the cross member when you use a DC front DS! So know anyone going to do this on a late model year truck (85 and later) a little more work to be done
In these pics you can see how the rear DS fits flange length just can't clear pinion hub. Second pics shows rear tire under stuff with 31x10.50's. Now, if I can eek by with 33x9.50's and not rip off my fender sheet metal, I may still try to move axel back on perches 1" to give me breathing room at rear DS.
Back to it today
After some great discussion with Dave (4+) regarding some of the conditions I am dealing with it makes more sense now or at least clarifies what's going on.
First, I prolly will not move the rear axel back as on the perches as suggested. One reason is there is so much travel on the rear axel the tire under stuff conditions will be only 1/2" to 3/4" from the fender lip with 33's. If I move it back I may have the tire shoved into the fender lips
No, I'm not going to trim the fenders Next Dave made a point that even when you remove stock shocks on stock springs the rear DS cant be removed from flange because you cannot clear the pinion hub yet there is no bind and DS spins freely. The only condition that may be of concern would be both rear wheels off ground at the same time, not a realistic situation in a 60 So if I want to jump my 60 I guess I should redo the rear DS length I do notice that even with lots of wheel travel at the rear there is very little movement at the rear DS. Now, the front with a SR is a whole different situation! The movement at the front axel is amazing with these springs and you really need to pay attention to clearance issuesConcerning the need for notching the cross member for the front DS clearance, this is an issue depending on the year of 60
I knew this but did not even think about it! Earlier years the 4-speeds don't have the 5th speed spacer in the tranny, mine is a 87'! Therefore the flange is set further back! In early years the DS flange clears the cross member when you use a DC front DS! So know anyone going to do this on a late model year truck (85 and later) a little more work to be doneIn these pics you can see how the rear DS fits flange length just can't clear pinion hub. Second pics shows rear tire under stuff with 31x10.50's. Now, if I can eek by with 33x9.50's and not rip off my fender sheet metal, I may still try to move axel back on perches 1" to give me breathing room at rear DS.
Back to it today
2 things, it is not the springs that are making your perceived axle travel (forward to back) so considerable. It is the shackle reversal making the arc of the spring the exact opposite of the arc of the driveshaft.
That DS flance looks like it could easily fit on the pinion. Do you have too much grease in there? Are you sure it is bottoming out?
- Thread starter
- #145
First of all I'm honored! Yes, I agree with you just did not articulate as well As far as the rear DS yes it's bottomed out. I pulled off and cleaned out all the grease and removed the zirk and measured no go. The flange to flange dimension is right there, just can't clear the pinion hub You can see that the spring arch has pulled the axel forward but under weight and movement is slides way back also. I guess the answer still is to re drill spring perches about an 1" back should be ok? Just have to watch tire rub under stuff. Any suggestions I would gladly take Mace. By the way used your contact for steering box rebuild kit
As far as the rear DS yes it's bottomed out. I pulled off and cleaned out all the grease and removed the zirk and measured no go. The flange to flange dimension is right there, just can't clear the pinion hub You can see that the spring arch has pulled the axel forward but under weight and movement is slides way back also. I guess the answer still is to re drill spring perches about an 1" back should be ok? Just have to watch tire rub under stuff. Any suggestions I would gladly take Mace. By the way used your contact for steering box rebuild kit I would think you should be able to adjust the driveshaft lenght to the appropiate lenght to solve this but if not Why don't you just get a better drive shaft made. For 250$ you could probably get something with longer splines. For 350$ I got long spline high travel cv 1350 brand new. You probably don't need a cv as I don't think 5 Inches is enough to cause vibrations due to the angles. The long travel gives you 10 inches of travel so you really are set no matter what you do.
Mace is right The geometry of the rear suspension doesn't require much travel. I haven't had an issue with rear stock driveshaft although I'm limiting the rear to about 11 3/4"~12" of travel. Even without the shocks that are limiting droop the drive shaft compresses to the limit but pulling the drive shaft bolts there is still 1/8" ~ 3/16" space and no binding. You can't remove the shaft until you put weight on the springs.
You could shorten the drive shaft but I probably won't go more than 1/4~1/2"
You could shorten the drive shaft but I probably won't go more than 1/4~1/2"
- Thread starter
- #151
I think what I will do is weight the truck get some compression on those rear springs bolt everything up and see where I'm at. I do know the one thing working against me is lack of weight on the truck so everything is still bound up! Especially after articulating the suspension. I need to get the rear DS on so I can drive it a flex the suspension and get it to settle in!
I installed that exact lift on my FJ62 last year - the 4+/OME kit, with shackle reversal and Ubolt flip kits. I did the job in my garage in two weekends - probably could have done it in one if I had more experience with this kind of work. I have moderate mechanical skills, and this was the first time I had ever done suspension work. There were only two things that gave me a little trouble 1. Removing the old rear spring bolts/pins from the front springs. This took forever and I used all kinds of MacGyver tricks to try to get them out. It liberal use of a torch that finally caused it to break free enough for be to bang the pins out with a hammer. 2. The second thing that was kind of frustrating was getting the pins on the bottom of the spring pack to line up with the hole in the top of the axle (or was it a pin on the axle and hole in the spring pack?? I don't remember) It was a pain, but with some persistence I was able to do it alone. You're going to need at least two jacks - a floor jack and a piston jack for lifting and moving things around under the truck. You'll also need lots of wood blocks to get those jacks up off the ground. Just buy a 2x8x12 board and cut it up into lengths that are about 6 inches longer than the 'wheel base' of your floor jack. Also prep anything that is going to come off with generous amounts of PB Blaster for a few days before you start. It's a dirty job, and takes some work, but its fun.
As far as tires, I went with 35x12.5s and 2" spacers all around. I do get some rubbing when fully flexed out, but the performance is good. I have a friend with a FJ60 who went with 33s on the same lift and he doesnt have rubbing issues. I am have the man-a-fre 2" body lift kit that is going to go on in the next couple of weekends to fix the rubbing issue.
I cant attach pics cause I am an FNG and have a small limit, but if you want to email me I will send you a bunch of pics of the job and final results.
As far as tires, I went with 35x12.5s and 2" spacers all around. I do get some rubbing when fully flexed out, but the performance is good. I have a friend with a FJ60 who went with 33s on the same lift and he doesnt have rubbing issues. I am have the man-a-fre 2" body lift kit that is going to go on in the next couple of weekends to fix the rubbing issue.
I cant attach pics cause I am an FNG and have a small limit, but if you want to email me I will send you a bunch of pics of the job and final results.
BTW, you wont need a new drive shaft - the stock one will be fine with that lift
- Thread starter
- #154
Rear DS yes. Front DS No. Now on a 62 maybe different as far as space/ location of the output flange of the front DS, but not on a late model 60. There is no way the front DS clears the cross member under full range of motion, under any circumstances, not to mention the lack of enough slip. Right now I'm pushing 17" of travel on the front end! As I have stated before, If you are using the kit shocks, sway bars etc. you are limiting the articulation this system really can do. As I stated early on in this thread the goal to try to push the limit of the system, truck and build it with attention to detail and document it.
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- #157
Got Some Down Time
Well, as usual duty calls so play time stops for now. Did fill the cargo area with weight to get the rear springs under load and relax a little. Truck still sits high! system is very supple but can handle loads When I get back try to hook up rear DS and drive Ordered the hydraulics for the hydro assist steering and rebuild parts for the steering box Hope to start rebuild and mod of steering box and get the hydro assist underway as well as notching of cross member. Hopefully this coming weekend major work happens
Well, as usual duty calls so play time stops for now. Did fill the cargo area with weight to get the rear springs under load and relax a little. Truck still sits high! system is very supple but can handle loads
When I get back try to hook up rear DS and drive Ordered the hydraulics for the hydro assist steering and rebuild parts for the steering box Hope to start rebuild and mod of steering box and get the hydro assist underway as well as notching of cross member. Hopefully this coming weekend major work happens
What's the prediction for how long it will take for these springs to sag? Is it possible they will they last as long as Dakars?
The stiffer the spring the longer it lasts. A spring has only so many cycles in it's lifetime. If it is stiff enough to never cycle it will last virtually forever
Kinda simplified dontcha think?
