Master Cylinder and Brake “Upgrade” Questions (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter poptart
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #22
I did do that and even rechecked when I bleed them last
Another vote for the City Racer dual diaphragm booster. My old one was admittedly leaky but going to the dual really improved braking even on 32s. Stock everything else other than fresh fluid.
I'm curious what differences there are between the 60 and 62 as far as brake boosters that might allow (or completely prevent) the dual diaphragm booster to be used in a US spec 62. If just the location of the vacuum hose, that'd be an easy work around.
Getting ready to replace my master and have read a few threads/posts and this never really gets mentioned. Just looked at the FSM and frankly didn't understand the procedure. Can you elaborate on the steps?
You use a tool like this. This an inexpensive one that works.
Power Brake Booster Tool
The brake booster adjustment tool first pre-fits the master cylinder rod into the master cylinder at the proper depth to fit nicely into the piston. Then with the rod secured in the tool, now you can fit the tool up to the booster and make the proper booster adjustment to correctly align with...
Set the H-shaped tool on the MC and push the rod into the cavity of the MC. Set screw holds it in place. That's measuring the depth of the cavity and you'll use the tool on the brake booster to check the adjustment of the push. Push rod on the booster is adjustable and you'll want set the push rod depth to match the depth of the cavity in the MC.
Easier to do than it is to explain.
- Thread starter
- #28
actually made my own. The first time around I measured with caliper using tape across the front as a reference surface. Kinda an annoying way to do it but it does works. Second time around I made a tool similar to the one linked out of wood and some bolts. If you take three equal length bolts you can turn the two outter bolt back until the center one touches the MC. Measure the distance outer bolts. Then use that measurement for to set up the center bolt for adjusting the push rod.You use a tool like this. This an inexpensive one that works.
Power Brake Booster Tool
The brake booster adjustment tool first pre-fits the master cylinder rod into the master cylinder at the proper depth to fit nicely into the piston. Then with the rod secured in the tool, now you can fit the tool up to the booster and make the proper booster adjustment to correctly align with...www.classicchevy.com
Set the H-shaped tool on the MC and push the rod into the cavity of the MC. Set screw holds it in place. That's measuring the depth of the cavity and you'll use the tool on the brake booster to check the adjustment of the push. Push rod on the booster is adjustable and you'll want set the push rod depth to match the depth of the cavity in the MC.
Easier to do than it is to explain.
- Thread starter
- #29
Speed Bleeders came in today. I thought they were sold in two packs, so I ordered 3. Turns out they’re sold individually. So I got 3 total, even weirder was that fact that two were in one pack and one was packaged individually.
Guess it work out because I assumed the LSPV bleeder was the same size… it is not. Anyone know what size that is?
I threw two on the front and one of the passenger rear. Figuring if that side bleeds better, I’d rather get pulled off the road than into oncoming traffic.
I think the issue I was having was that bleeders that came with the calipers and wheel cylinder were too small in diameter. Letting air get past the threads. Last time I tried bleeding them I tried remedying this with Teflon tape and even grease. The speed bleeder seemed like a better fit and they came with thread sealer on them. For the driver rear bleeder I picked the best looking bleeder I pulled and gave that 4 wraps of Teflon instead of the 3 I did previously. Seemed to help seal it a bit better. Did the same on the LSPV as well.
Brakes are better now and they lock up. I’m pretty happy with the results. Pedal isn’t as stiff as I’d like but I’m no longer worried about the wife sliding into the back of a car when panic braking.
It still seems like the rears lock up a little early so I’m going to cut down my extended mounts a tiny bit more and see if that helps.
Guess it work out because I assumed the LSPV bleeder was the same size… it is not. Anyone know what size that is?
I threw two on the front and one of the passenger rear. Figuring if that side bleeds better, I’d rather get pulled off the road than into oncoming traffic.
I think the issue I was having was that bleeders that came with the calipers and wheel cylinder were too small in diameter. Letting air get past the threads. Last time I tried bleeding them I tried remedying this with Teflon tape and even grease. The speed bleeder seemed like a better fit and they came with thread sealer on them. For the driver rear bleeder I picked the best looking bleeder I pulled and gave that 4 wraps of Teflon instead of the 3 I did previously. Seemed to help seal it a bit better. Did the same on the LSPV as well.
Brakes are better now and they lock up. I’m pretty happy with the results. Pedal isn’t as stiff as I’d like but I’m no longer worried about the wife sliding into the back of a car when panic braking.
It still seems like the rears lock up a little early so I’m going to cut down my extended mounts a tiny bit more and see if that helps.
I also ran the mid 90’s 4Runner calipers & Tundra MC with oem booster and did not see any improvement in braking. A couple of months ago I went back to oem setup and happy with results. I run 33” tires on my vortec powered 60 and braking is ok. Maybe later on as fund$ become available, I may go with the newer 4Runner brake setup. This would require 17” wheels. @The Phoenician is running this setup on Big Red and says braking is great.
bottombracket
SILVER Star
If it stops Big Red…that’ll stop anything.
WoodnotRust
SILVER Star
City Racer has both a single and dual diaphragm booster. Which did you install?
- Thread starter
- #33
Forgot about this thread until @WoodnotRust posted, but I have updates.
Recently measured the runout on the on the front rotors on my FJ62. Just on one of the rotors and only on one face, but it was 0.004".
I had put on new rotors back in 2020, they were Centric P/N 32044037 and I'm pretty sure they were warped right out of the box. I've always have pedal vibrations and have just been dealing with it. But, measuring the runout confirmed it and was enough to put a bug in my ass to do something about it.
I was torn between order Toyota OEM Rotors from Cruiser Outfitters or DBA's and ended up decided to go with the DBA T3 4000 series slotted rotors (P/N 4151S). Found an eBay listing for them with the Make An Offer button and ended up getting them for $131 a pop. For pads I decided to go with Akebono Pro-Act Ultra Premium ceramic pads for the '94 4Runner calipers I have installed. I recently put these pads on my wife's Tacoma and was really impressed with them.
After all this I can officially say my brakes are imho pretty great. Pedal feel and response is awesome. For an over 5000lb rig I'm honestly impressed how well it stops now.
I was getting ready to swap back to the OEM master cylinder, but now I'm not sure if I'm going to. The new Advics master cylinder I have in the box didn't come with a cap, I don't have the old one and the cap for the T100 master doesn't fit. So I'm less eager to bother with installing that any time soon.
Driving around a bit I did realized my rear wheels were locking just ever so slightly before the fronts. I guess I never noticed before with all the vibrations and nonsense. So I made some adjustments to my LSPV arm mount. I'll take a photo of how I have that set up. I think it's pretty slick. Got tired of having to cut and modify the stand offs I had and made my mount adjustable so it's a breeze to get it dialed in now.
Recently measured the runout on the on the front rotors on my FJ62. Just on one of the rotors and only on one face, but it was 0.004".
I had put on new rotors back in 2020, they were Centric P/N 32044037 and I'm pretty sure they were warped right out of the box. I've always have pedal vibrations and have just been dealing with it. But, measuring the runout confirmed it and was enough to put a bug in my ass to do something about it.
I was torn between order Toyota OEM Rotors from Cruiser Outfitters or DBA's and ended up decided to go with the DBA T3 4000 series slotted rotors (P/N 4151S). Found an eBay listing for them with the Make An Offer button and ended up getting them for $131 a pop. For pads I decided to go with Akebono Pro-Act Ultra Premium ceramic pads for the '94 4Runner calipers I have installed. I recently put these pads on my wife's Tacoma and was really impressed with them.
After all this I can officially say my brakes are imho pretty great. Pedal feel and response is awesome. For an over 5000lb rig I'm honestly impressed how well it stops now.
I was getting ready to swap back to the OEM master cylinder, but now I'm not sure if I'm going to. The new Advics master cylinder I have in the box didn't come with a cap, I don't have the old one and the cap for the T100 master doesn't fit. So I'm less eager to bother with installing that any time soon.
Driving around a bit I did realized my rear wheels were locking just ever so slightly before the fronts. I guess I never noticed before with all the vibrations and nonsense. So I made some adjustments to my LSPV arm mount. I'll take a photo of how I have that set up. I think it's pretty slick. Got tired of having to cut and modify the stand offs I had and made my mount adjustable so it's a breeze to get it dialed in now.
WoodnotRust
SILVER Star
Thanks for the update @poptart . About the booster from City Racer...was it dual or single diaphragm?
I'm surprised you were considering going back to the OEM master. From all that I read in previous posts it seems that matching the caliper/MC/booster was fundamental to getting the pedal travel/feel correct. That's basically the reason I ask about the booster wondering which is best to match my "OEM" set-up.
So, I'm trying to improve my brakes a bit on the cheap, especially after hearing a lot of those with the 4Runner upgrade (calipers, T100 MC, 4Runner booster) aren't all that happy. You're an exception, but seems like that was a journey that took Rotors and pads too to get there and a lot of fiddling.
I'm currently all OEM with relatively new pads front/back. I've never tried to panic brake and I find myself driving cautiously to avoid that nightmare. I can stop and slow OK without any pull either direction, but when going slow it seems I have to really put a lot of force on the pedal. There isn't a lot of pedal travel...it is just hard. I heard the booster was typically the culprit in those cases, so I'm considering just the City Racer Booster and a "new" Advics MC (since they say replace both at the same time?).
Based on your experience will I likely see significant braking improvement with just the "OEM-like" Booster/MC fix above?
I'm OK to continue going the OEM route by following up with the new CruiserTec loaded calipers and OEM rotors, but I don't want to later find out that what was really needed were bigger rotors and calipers and then need to change the Booster/MC yet again to match. Although it seems obvious that bigger is better, there is surprisingly little agreement on this forum.
R
I'm surprised you were considering going back to the OEM master. From all that I read in previous posts it seems that matching the caliper/MC/booster was fundamental to getting the pedal travel/feel correct. That's basically the reason I ask about the booster wondering which is best to match my "OEM" set-up.
So, I'm trying to improve my brakes a bit on the cheap, especially after hearing a lot of those with the 4Runner upgrade (calipers, T100 MC, 4Runner booster) aren't all that happy. You're an exception, but seems like that was a journey that took Rotors and pads too to get there and a lot of fiddling.
I'm currently all OEM with relatively new pads front/back. I've never tried to panic brake and I find myself driving cautiously to avoid that nightmare. I can stop and slow OK without any pull either direction, but when going slow it seems I have to really put a lot of force on the pedal. There isn't a lot of pedal travel...it is just hard. I heard the booster was typically the culprit in those cases, so I'm considering just the City Racer Booster and a "new" Advics MC (since they say replace both at the same time?).
Based on your experience will I likely see significant braking improvement with just the "OEM-like" Booster/MC fix above?
I'm OK to continue going the OEM route by following up with the new CruiserTec loaded calipers and OEM rotors, but I don't want to later find out that what was really needed were bigger rotors and calipers and then need to change the Booster/MC yet again to match. Although it seems obvious that bigger is better, there is surprisingly little agreement on this forum.
R
Last edited:
WoodnotRust
SILVER Star
@poptart ...never mind the question regarding the booster. I see that was meant for @bottombracket since he was the guy that did the OEM re-do with the City Racer booster.
Still trying to make the decision between the OEM vs 4Runner route...
Still trying to make the decision between the OEM vs 4Runner route...
I'm able to lock the tires (31" Goodyears) into a skid with my Aisin replacement master cylinder on stock brakes and I flush the lines about once a year with DOT4. I did lose the brakes on the highway once when the front right caliper let go, but it's all good after replacing it. A good overhaul on OEM calipers might do the trick for you.
I'm usually a little wary of letting folks drive the Cruiser since it just takes a more deliberate approach to braking and turning than something like a modern crossover. It doesn't mean it's unsafe, but when you're used to ABS saving you from a texting and driving incident, it just takes more focus IMO. I don't think most folks adjust their driving style based on what they're driving.
I'm usually a little wary of letting folks drive the Cruiser since it just takes a more deliberate approach to braking and turning than something like a modern crossover. It doesn't mean it's unsafe, but when you're used to ABS saving you from a texting and driving incident, it just takes more focus IMO. I don't think most folks adjust their driving style based on what they're driving.
Same here. I have stock replacement of every brake system, and can lock up 33" tires towards the end of the pedal. Driving the 60 versus my 100 is such a more focused activity, I don't let myself check phone/texts and drive much more defensively as to the road ahead. Have locked up before when someone in front panic stopped, and was not a fun experience at all.
With everything i see about the 4runner stuff on the 60 not really working well, it kind of gives me pause to do it to my 60. I have a lot of the same stuff you had, brakes pull to one side, etc..
On my old firstgen 4runner i could lock 37s up in any gear. I used 3rdgen 4runner booster/master combo i pulled from a 4runner in a junk yard. Napa 4runner calipers and pads, and fj60 rotors on a mini truck solid axle. With new brake shoes and a well adjusted lspv it locked them perfectly. Sucks its not the case with the 60s
On my old firstgen 4runner i could lock 37s up in any gear. I used 3rdgen 4runner booster/master combo i pulled from a 4runner in a junk yard. Napa 4runner calipers and pads, and fj60 rotors on a mini truck solid axle. With new brake shoes and a well adjusted lspv it locked them perfectly. Sucks its not the case with the 60s
4runner2FJ60
SILVER Star
I followed the described steps above when I put a new CO booster in my 60 a few years ago. My brakes work awesome from what I understand normal 60 brakes work. When I got my rig there were no brakes so it is hard to compare. The 4runner front calipers brake strong as can be. I can lock them up for sure. The pedal is sometimes very touchy and I assume this is the booster rod adjustment? (pedal height is to spec per FSM) My question is which way do I go to reduce this, in or out? THANKS!
- Thread starter
- #40
I was originally considering this because of all the issues I've had. Trying to play the game of getting more line pressure versus fluid movement. However, I think the T100 MC is sized fairly correctly for having the 4Runner calipers installed.
Overall, I think the "Upgrades" (4runner calipers, larger MC, etc) are a mixed bag. I'm definitely not going to say it's a plug and play upgrade. There are way to many variables. I'm finally happy with my results, but it's taken a long time to get there. The larger the 4Runner calipers net you a larger pad area, possibly reduced heat and increased pad force. However, if you notice I don't talk in definites, while I'm an engineer of some sorts I'm not going to pretend I'm an engineer of brake systems. Simply trying to find parts that are available and fit that are larger or whatever is more of a game of chance of how well the results will turn out. I absolutely caution people making changes to systems such as brakes. Another aspect to consider is that with larger caliper pistons your more than likely changing the bias front and rear and the LSPV will have to be adjusted correctly, combine that with the lifts that people add I think the LSPV adjustment is kinda over looked.
If you want the safest route, OEM everything and follow the procedures in the FSM.
With all the said, I very happy with my results. I can lock up the wheels no issue, I'm not going claim that is the benchmark of a good brake system though. In fact, the day after I finished replacing the front rotors and pads I was driving home on a mountain road just after it rained, popped over a hill and was surprised to see all traffic stopped. Hit the brakes, locked them up and slid. I tried pumping the brakes and it wasn't effective in slowing down my FJ62 in the time needed. Ended up having to put the passenger side wheels in someone's yard to assist in slowing down. The fact is no matter what upgrades or how well the braking system working on one of these FJ60/62 there's really no writing off how well ABS systems work and the how differently you have to drive without it. These are heavy rigs to begin with and most of us have heavy accessories bolted on increase the weight and effecting braking performance.
Anyways, as promised here's my stand off set up for my LSPV arm mount. Sorry it looks so crusty, lots of Fluid Film and PB Blaster Surface Shield sprayed under my FJ62 trying to fight off rust. But, basically I took some long grade 10 M8-1.25 bolts and cut the heads off and installed them into the factory holes with jam nuts. I'm able to raise and lower the arm by loosen the jam nuts and turning them in whatever direction and locking everything back down again. This beat my previous set up which was some stainless steel pipes with bolts through them. I would have to trim the pipes or replace them while making adjustments trying to get things dialed in.
