Looking for advice on 2F engine rebuild (2 Viewers)

[dasgeek]

Last we was a tough week. I inadvertently drove my 1980 FJ40 with no oil and seized the motor. It is a long story as to all the little events that lead to me making such a stupid mistake and trust me, I am very frustrated with myself. I will just say NEVER TRUST Jiffylube with anything.

I was actually heading to a shop to get a quote on replacing the gasket between the intake and exhaust manifold when the motor seized. The mechanic there said that the seized motor is probably not worth rebuilding due to all the likely damage. He is willing to pull it but in not interested in rebuilding it. Wish he was because he is a good mechanic.

So I probably need to source a 2f motor. I would like to be able to just get the truck to someone that is a good rebuilder and let them pull the 2F and see if it can be rebuilt. If not I will need to find one.

My hope was to talk to Cameron Mosley at Mosley Motors about his Hi Power 2F rebuild but I can not get a response. Not sure if he is still in business but the website is still up.

So my next thought is find someone/shop within a few hundred miles of me. I am in Fort Smith Arkansas (on the boarder of Arkansas and Oklahoma where I-40 crosses the state line. I could get the truck to Tulsa, Little Rock, Oklahoma City, Northwest AR, or even Dallas if I can find the right shop. I know CruiserCorp is in OKC but I keep getting mixed feedback on them.


TL;DR: Seized my 2F. Do you think it can be rebuilt? If not, is there a good place to get a rebuilt 2F for a reasonable cost? Is there a shop with in 250 miles of Fort Smith AR that could repair my 1980 Fj40 (rebuild or replace 2F)?

 

[charliemeyer007]

Can it be re-built. Yes, but does it make "cents". Throwing a rod out the side of the block, then no. Hauling a motor to shop is one thing. I can pull the motor tranny and transfer in like 3 hours by myself (have done it 3 times) in my 72FJ40.

 

[dasgeek]

I do not think it threw a rod. I did not see any block damage. The 80 has a lot more "stuff" around it than a 72.

 

[brooklyn]

Not knowing the engine’s history, you might want to source a used engine. You might want to post “engine wanted” in parts section and see what’s out there.

 

[dasgeek]

It is the original engine that was rebuilt in 2001 and has about 12000 miles on it from the rebuild.

Really hoping for some shop recommendations that are within about 250 miles of Fort Smith or a good off the shelf rebuild from a Land Cruiser shop.

 

[3_puppies]

no recommendations from me, have you tried local clubs for recommendations?

any response from the oil change place? if it is their fault, they should be responsible.

if staying stock, options are,
getting a good used/running engine and drop in
or
rebuild yours

I thought Mosley was many, many months out

 

[dasgeek]

Do not expect to get anywhere with Jiffylube. I had the oil changed in Feb. I drove the truck a few times in the Spring (put about 100 miles on it). Did not drive it for the hot months of Summer. Drove it last week and did not notice the gauge until engine started to act up. Why did I not notice oil under vehicle? There was brown carpet under the truck that absorbed the oil but did not show because of the color matching the oil. I will never make that mistake again and have already removed the carpet. The truck has not had any oil leaks in the past ten years so this came as a big surprise. When we put oil in it at the shop it did have a drip from the plug. It probably took weeks to leak out but the FJ40 sat for at least 10 weeks during the really hot months. I do not think I will get anywhere with oil change place due to time that has passed. I did talk to a lawyer friend of mine today and he did not think I would get anywhere either.

I would love to talk to Mosley but I just can not get a response. I would be fine waiting a few months if I knew what I was waiting for (price, options and place in line). Tough to consider it when I cannot even get information about options, price and timeline.

 

[70fj40]

Dasgeek

I recommend calling Beau Parker at Safari Classics in Hot Springs. I live in Benton and use him. He may have a motor or a line on one if yours can’t be rebuilt He is a good guy and will give you an honest assessment.

 

[dasgeek]

I recommend calling Beau Parker at Safari Classics in Hot Springs.

Thanks. I will call him in the morning.


Anyone have any experience with Land Cruiser Restorations in Tulsa OK?

 

[Pitter Patter]

It’s an opportunity, if you can call it that, for you to pull your engine and tear it down. You’ll learn a lot and at this point you aren’t likely to damage anything beyond what’s already happened. The 2F block has a lot of room in it for machining so the block is probably fine. I’d give it very good odds that it is rebuildable. The biggest problem is cost. You could probably source a working 2F for a fraction of the cost of rebuilding this one. If you’re willing to spend Mosley money then you have plenty of options available to you. Sorry to hear what happened.

 

[aztoyman]

I would at least disassemble the engine and assess the damage. Siezing from lack of oil "usually" results in damage to the crank and rods. Probably cam and such. It's possible the block is still good as well as the head and maybe more.

We tend to assume the worse. You won't know until it's checked. No doubt there's damage. You just don't know the extent.

I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

 

[firemanj92]

I would at least disassemble the engine and assess the damage. Siezing from lack of oil "usually" results in damage to the crank and rods. Probably cam and such. It's possible the block is still good as well as the head and maybe more.

We tend to assume the worse. You won't know until it's checked. No doubt there's damage. You just don't know the extent.

I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

I agree, pull the pan/side cover, take a look at the glitter in the oil (magnetic glitter is bad=iron block damage/non-magnetic=bearings). I had my 1F motor rebuilt (it was salvagable) due to it seizing after a similar experience. Mosely aka @FJ60Cam is hard to get a hold of but worth talking too, he's super busy. Also check with Chattanooga Land Cruiser group chapters too-I think there is a guy in Ooltewah that works on LC's.

Here's a thread worth reading regarding motor rebuilder options.

2F engine Rebuilder - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2f-engine-rebuilder.1269411/#post-14160131

 

[charliemeyer007]

Pull the plugs, put something like Marvels mystery oil, Kroil, PB Blaster in each cylinder and let it soak for a few days. Then try a socket and breaker bar on the crank to see if it will move. If you have a compression tester that has spark plug inserts, use the insert to apply air pressure to help push the stuff around the rings.

When my dad taught me to drive, it was "look out the windshield, look at the instrument panel, look in the review mirror - keep running that triangle the whole time you are driving. Nothing can sneak up on you that way.

I put a direct read oil pressure gauge in mine. I ran a piece of fuel hose over the plastic oil line from the gauge threw the fire wall - that way if the plastic line broke I wouldn't have hot oil squirting in my face.

Hard to say what it will need until you tear it down. I would explore all options and start sourcing/pricing parts likely parts as noted earlier.

 

[77mustard40]

Well that's a crappy story... if it was me I would pull the pan and take a bearing cap or two off to see what you have then go from there. If they are toast you know the motor has to come out, whether its you (and a couple of friends) or a hired gun.

As much as I like the idea of keeping the original motor with a truck, I don't if that's the most efficient solution. Mosely will be years if you go that route. Your motor was rebuilt once, was it bored oversize and is there still room to go? You may want to be on the lookout for a late 2F from someone doing a swap, may be time to bookmark the Classifieds

 

[firemanj92]

@dasgeek,

Talk to Georg of Valley Hybrids (@orangefj45). I believe he has a 2F for sale at his shop.

 

[dasgeek]

Thank you for all the input. Thought I would update you guys on my truck. I decided to get the truck to Beau Parker at Safari Classics in Hot Springs based on @70fj40 recommendation. He has had it a few days. I am happy to report that the engine is still good. He pulled the pan and valve cover and everything looked good. He was also able to get the engine to turn over. Compression on all cylinders looks good.

I am going to have him do a number of things to it while it is at his shop (as much as I can afford).

 

[USOffRoad]

I spent many years in the engine machine shop business so my comments are from that point of view.

IF the engine seized from lack of oil, which, by your description it did, I would most definitely want to pull and tear down the engine. An engine seizes because two surfaces come in contact with no lubrication and/or unusually high temperatures caused by a cooling issue (causing metals to expand and reducing what clearances they had). When these surfaces seize, whether it's a piston skirt to cylinder wall, rod, main or even a camshaft to their respective bearings then you will almost always damage the surface of the crankshaft or camshaft and certainly the bearing. Typically it's a main bearing that seizes an engine as a rod will typically first knock, which you should have heard first before it letting loose (which it did not apparently) or in extreme temp cases the piston seizes in the cylinder...OR.. a head gasket blows and fills a cylinder with coolant causing a hydrolock situation which bends rods and breaks pistons...water does not compress. Either way there is almost always scoring. Rings may have collapsed in the piston ring lands as well. Then there's metal fragments in the oiling system to consider.

Now...having said all of that, these 2F engines are tough, long stroke, low HP engines and you may very well have gotten lucky not to have any damage but as tough as they are they don't defy the laws of physics or thermal dynamics and I wouldn't chance it by any measure without a full tear down or you may be doing this twice.

Sounds like either way it is rebuildable at first glance which is a very good thing.