Local Friends - Pls help me sort my 80 series geometry!

[Jeff Elliott]

Hello ONSC Friends -

I'm jealous of hearing about how great everyone's 80 series handles great on the interstate, runs 90 mph with nary a wiggle, etc. I write to request some help with my 80 series geometry as I inherited much of it from the PO and need to sort it out! It tends to wander a bit (despite my new 555 TRE's) and has an on again / off again shake in the steering wheel. Also, the alignment shop was unable to correct the pull to the right which makes me think it's a lift / geometry issue.

As far as height goes, it measures at 4" lift in the front and 3.25" in the back. It has spacers in the back and may have spacers in the front (see pics) - not sure. I suspect is was more level until I deleted the stock bumper, added the 4x4 labs bumper with swingouts, 35" spare, storage system, etc. Other than the drop brackets, it appears pretty stock to me (but could be wrong). I'd like to further level it out but am not sure what I should to to make that happen.

I'm about to do some suspension work along with my ABS / LSPV delete (I'm full time part time now) so it's a good time to overall everything.

What would you suggest? Thanks!!!

Front Spring Situation:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

Front Sway Bar:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

Drop Brackets:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

Rear Arm + Sway:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

Selected Bushing:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

 

[GLTHFJ60]

First step, take it to an alignment shop and pay to have it aligned. Not that they'll change much but they'll give you your current numbers. Caster, camber, thrust.

Unless you have the alignment chart already, in which case just post it here.

 

[Jeff Elliott]

Thanks @GLTHFJ60, here's the sheet:

Untitled by Jeff Nada, on Flickr

 

[Jeff Elliott]

I will note that when this alignment was done the front spindle nuts had a touch of play in them... I discovered this and corrected but didn't take it back for another alignment.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Caster is too flat. Oem bushings or caster correction bushings?

Radius arm drop brakcets give me pause. I thought they were only for 4+ inch lifts, not the 3ish you have now. I bet those need to go away, then maybe caster correction bushings depending what's in there now.

 

[Jeff Elliott]

I would have loved to have gotten rid of the drop brackets before I got my sliders... I had to order a different mounting configuration to accommodate them. Oh well, I can scrap them and do bushings or the brackets at the axle - I take direction well! Just point me and I will take that hill!

 

[lumbee1]

Hey @Jeff Elliott I'm not sure what is going on with the caster on your rig. Left and right caster should be a 0 to 5 degrees of each other due to variables during manufacturing. The stronger negative camber on the passenger side also doesn't match the driver's side. Was your Cruiser ever in an accident?

Drop brackets, while providing an impact point behind the wheel, are probably the best option for returning the vehicle close to factory specs for caster with a lift 4" or greater as @GLTHFJ60 said.

Removing the drop brackets and installing caster correction plates would be my next recommendation but if you are happy with your current suspension and have a welder, you could take this a step further and cut off your front radius arm mount points and weld in some new mounts for perfect caster. Caster correction plates are typically used for 2.5" to 4" lifts.

Caster correction bushings would be my last choice. Offset caster correction bushings are made of polyurethane and have a higher durometer and less flex than the OEM rubber bushings. Polyurethane bushings have a greater chance of material failure during flexing or separation from the sleeve.

For both drop brackets and caster plates, I would recommend OEM rubber bushings.

Most folks recommend a caster of 3* or higher and drop brackets like yours should put your caster around 4*, just guessing here. I have 3.5" springs in the front but my caster was set with 3" springs at 3* (technically 2.9* and 3.1*). The 3.5" springs lifted the front of the truck 1.5" due to the heavier rate and pushed my caster closer to 2*. It still drives fine but I preferred 3* caster.

 

[roadstr6]

Johnny is right. Your caster is lacking. Factory caster is 4*. Thats the number you’re shooting for. Check to see if your radius arms have factory bushings or offset bushings. If they are offset bushings, get rid of them. Press in factory bushings and get yourself a set of caster plates. I don’t like the look of those drop brackets either. If I were going to do drop brackets, I’d get the eimkeith brackets which are a lesser drop, but they also push the axle forward about an inch.

If money is no object, ditch the drop brackets, ditch the factory radius arms and get a set of Delta VS arms. Those things are the bees knees.

In addition to caster, check the front panhard bushings and mounting brackets and torque the bolts. The panhard can cause a lot of steering issues.

Finally, At your amount of lift, you could use a set of sway bar drop brackets for front and rear. The sway bars can’t do their job at the angles they are at.

 

[Jeff Elliott]

Thanks @lumbee1 - here are a few responses:

Was your Cruiser ever in an accident?

No that I know of... clean carfax, <100K miles, no signs of frame damage or molestation. Wonder if the drop brackets could have some manufacturing differences / or installation defects that are twisting the king pin angle?

Barring the above, I'm guessing the different angles indicate the axle housing is twisted?

but if you are happy with your current suspension and have a welder, you could take this a step further and cut off your front radius arm mount points and weld in some new mounts for perfect caster

I do have a welder and am not afraid to use it... that said, I have no idea if I'm happy with the suspension or not. It's a combo grocery getter and occasional overland / Uwharrie rig. I'd like to level it out but I don't need it to be a super high performance rock crawler. It's basically my dream rig from when I was in college and I like where it is so far.

Removing the drop brackets and installing caster correction plates would be my next recommendation

Would it be wise to remove the drop brackets, pickup a set of plates and see how things go? If I like where it lands, then cut the radius arm mounts and re-weld?

What about the rear? I don't have any changes back there and it's also 3+" of lift - should I be doing anything back there?

Thanks!!!

 

[Jeff Elliott]

Thanks @roadstr6 - couple of responses to you as well:

Check to see if your radius arms have factory bushings or offset bushings.

Bone stock. Clearly original everything except shocks

check the front panhard bushings and mounting brackets and torque the bolts

Sorry for being a nOOb - they all look stock - how do I check them for being in need of replacement? Also, if you happen to know correct torque offhand that'd be great - otherwise I will consult the FSM

you could use a set of sway bar drop brackets for front and rear

I've got these that came with the rig - are they drop bracket?

Untitled by jeff elliott, on Flickr

Untitled by jeff elliott, on Flickr

 

[roadstr6]

Thanks @roadstr6 - couple of responses to you as well:



Bone stock. Clearly original everything except shocks



Sorry for being a nOOb - they all look stock - how do I check them for being in need of replacement? Also, if you happen to know correct torque offhand that'd be great - otherwise I will consult the FSM



I've got these that came with the rig - are they drop bracket?

Untitled by jeff elliott, on Flickr

Untitled by jeff elliott, on Flickr

Those do look like front sway bar drop brackets. Those won’t fix your steering issues, but they will help with cornering and sway. I don’t know the panhard bolt torque spec off the top of my head, but it’s in the FSM. Check the panhard mounting points for cracks. If the bushings are cracked or split, replace them.

 

[lumbee1]

@Jeff Elliott your rear sway bar arms should be parallel with the rear control arms. The drop brackets pictured are for the front OR they could be rear bumpstop extensions. It's hard to tell.

BTW, you don't have to upload everything to Flickr to post. Cost and paste work well as long as the file size is less than 5MB (I think). I use SHIFT + Windows + S to grab a section of the display and paste it into threads. It works quite well for the forum and work.

 

[lumbee1]

@Jeff Elliott your rear sway bar arms should be parallel with the rear control arms. The drop brackets pictured are for the front OR they could be rear bumpstop extensions. It's hard to tell.

BTW, you don't have to upload everything to Flickr to post. Cost and paste work well as long as the file size is less than 5MB (I think). I use SHIFT + Windows + S to grab a section of the display and paste it into threads. It works quite well for the forum and work.

Ignore this guy. I think the rear sway bar ends should be in line with the control arms. Not below and not above.

 

[Jeff Elliott]

@Jeff Elliott
BTW, you don't have to upload everything to Flickr to post. Cost and paste work well as long as the file size is less than 5MB (I think). I use SHIFT + Windows + S to grab a section of the display and paste it into threads. It works quite well for the forum and work.

Thanks for that tip Jonathan - How do you handle getting the pics from your phone to the screen? I've been just taking pics on the phone, uploading to flickr and then copying the BBcode. Would love to find a more efficient way to get them from phone to forum!

I'm working on the geometry solution now - will post progress!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

There's an attach files button below the text box where you type your post. Click that then pick your photos from your phone.

That's how I do it. I use the website (chrome) on my phone, not tapatalk or whatever.

 

[JohnVee]

Tapatalk has been gone for years!

Yep, just hit attach files files then select phone or camera (if you want to take a pic to post). Doing it this way makes MUD the host and eliminates the possibility of becoming like all those missing pics from old threads.

 

[lumbee1]

All of my phone photos are automatically uploaded to Google photos. From there, I can either copy/paste the image or screen grab just the bits I want.

 

[Roxx]

Like everyone said, panhard and control arms and if somebody is bragging about going 90 on a 4” lift 80 on 35” or more tires without shaking, wiggle, raddled or humming the are lying to you with strait face. I can make cream in mine at 70 and definitely cannot reach that speed.

 

[roadstr6]

Worn trunnion bearings can cause a steering wheel shimmy. When was the last time the truck had a knuckle rebuild? It may be time.

 

[Jeff Elliott]

Worn trunnion bearings can cause a steering wheel shimmy. When was the last time the truck had a knuckle rebuild? It may be time.

Agree Dave. I did a full front end rebuild in the last 2,000 miles so I think we can rule that out.