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The Ft/lbs and Hp is intrinsically proportional to the power band. Not Intermittently and then not available.
For those that need Photos …..
If you have driven a Hybrid you can “See the transfer of Energy on a display” during an incline or decline.
I’ve personally viewed my Fully loaded Hybrid ….monitoring screen showing use during Climbing a long incline using both Electric Motors and Ice.
Here are some image’s. Though not a crayon drawing, yet Close enough to comprehend the Intricacies of the system.
For those that need Photos …..
If you have driven a Hybrid you can “See the transfer of Energy on a display” during an incline or decline.
I’ve personally viewed my Fully loaded Hybrid ….monitoring screen showing use during Climbing a long incline using both Electric Motors and Ice.
Here are some image’s. Though not a crayon drawing, yet Close enough to comprehend the Intricacies of the system.
Whether a blunder or purposeful leak, 27 mpg combined, if off at all, won't be far off. Even before LC was announced, media was reporting 24/30 mpg for Tacoma (same powertrain). Leaks? Just bad reporting? I won't be at all surprised by 24 or 25 combined.
But, lost in the discussion of 27 mpg is the turbo hybrid's off-highway efficiency, which is what really matters for remote touring.
For that, the 2.4L hybrid combo in the GHM (larger but likely lighter and more aerodynamic than LC250) achieves 26 city (nearly matching its 27 highway and combined ratings). And Tundra (albeit a different hybrid system) is proving excellent at maintaining efficiency under load. For their own reasons, neither GHM nor Tundra are analogs for LC 250, but they're informative.
The limited data thus far suggest Land Cruiser 250's turbo hybrid providing diesel-like torque and off-highway efficiency absent the glitchiness of modern diesel emissions systems. Achieving even 23 or 24 mpg off-highway would be a huge improvement for remote touring.
But, lost in the discussion of 27 mpg is the turbo hybrid's off-highway efficiency, which is what really matters for remote touring.
For that, the 2.4L hybrid combo in the GHM (larger but likely lighter and more aerodynamic than LC250) achieves 26 city (nearly matching its 27 highway and combined ratings). And Tundra (albeit a different hybrid system) is proving excellent at maintaining efficiency under load. For their own reasons, neither GHM nor Tundra are analogs for LC 250, but they're informative.
The limited data thus far suggest Land Cruiser 250's turbo hybrid providing diesel-like torque and off-highway efficiency absent the glitchiness of modern diesel emissions systems. Achieving even 23 or 24 mpg off-highway would be a huge improvement for remote touring.
I understand the system. The electrical side can do lots of things. But it doesn't generate energy independently. It can only assist the engine in output with whatever energy the battery has stored. Once that's gone, it's gone until it recharges by drawing energy away from the engine or regenerative braking. Neither of those options work during continuous high load situations.
The system is not capable of continuous 325hp for more than about 60 seconds. It's a physical impossibility.
The system is not capable of continuous 325hp for more than about 60 seconds. It's a physical impossibility.
Ohk buddy
Other week on a Long incline… I didn’t see the power energy transfer from Engine to battery and…….. wheels from engine within the systems readout,Of both engine and electric motors.
It was able to climb the incline
For only a few seconds and then there was a dramatic difference in power… untill energy recouped in battery… then an additional boost of Hp happened for few seconds…. Then it dropped dramatically back to its normal power because the Electric motors did nothing.
Yep
That happened for the 4 mile incline I was on…. Giving full Hp and then not.
So much so, I pulled over, left some luggage on side of road because I was at max Payload.
Yep, that’s how it was for the 10hr road trip.
You’re well aware of what happened on the recent trip and explained it well.
Thank you
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I hope it's more like 27. That's what makes the compromise worth it. If it's 22, it's a pass for me.
Off-road will be really interesting to see. Both power delivery and efficiency. The 1gr is excellent in that context. I was always impressed by how efficient it was on trails. Half the fuel use or less than the V8s I'm with in most cases including my own 5.7.
If that's not the case, someone at Toyota is a lock for a nobel prize.Ohk buddy
I agree. Low 20s gets into “why even bother” territory for a hybrid system.
Speaking of the aerodynamics of a brick, I'm very intrigued by what Hyundai has done with the upcoming 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid drag coefficient (0.29). The MPG has not been released yet but going by their 2023 model (below) I would think with improved aerodynamics they will be in the same range. It is the same weight as the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser 250, 5,000 pounds, so it seems possible it is a good yardstick for comparison for both the LC250 and the 4Runner, granted, the Toyota BOF frame makes things worse than the Hyundai unibody, but, pounds is pounds.
Aerodynamics
MPG
The EPA hasn't released fuel economy estimates for the 2024 Santa Fe Hybrid just yet, but given that it runs a similar hybrid powertrain as the previous generation model, we expect to see similar results. The 2023 Santa Fe Hybrid was rated at 36 mpg city and 31 mpg highway. For more information about the Santa Fe Hybrid's fuel economy, visit the EPA's website.
2024 Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid Review, Pricing, and Specs
Hyundai has rebooted the 2024 Santa Fe Hybrid as a boxy, three-row SUV with a more stylish cabin and rugged design cues, but it retains its soft-riding nature.www.caranddriver.com
Gas Mileage of 2023 Hyundai Santa Fe
Search by Model. Search by make for fuel efficient new and used cars and truckswww.fueleconomy.gov
The cool XRT Concept model is TBD.
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The 27mpg statement on the website obviously isn’t correct…. Because someone decided to take it down for a reason.
I’m sure the reason is because, it’s not going to get 27mpg
That ship has saled.
23-25 is nice.l if that’s what the 250 gets.
Any less it seems pretty silly to get the new 250 at $56k plus Dealer mark up at around $60k.
I’d rather get a new Lx 460 now or later certified with excellent quality build, and with leather interior and every other comfort along with awesome off road ability….
Plus the v8 that gets around 19-20mpg on the Hiway.
I’m sure the reason is because, it’s not going to get 27mpg
That ship has saled.
23-25 is nice.l if that’s what the 250 gets.
Any less it seems pretty silly to get the new 250 at $56k plus Dealer mark up at around $60k.
I’d rather get a new Lx 460 now or later certified with excellent quality build, and with leather interior and every other comfort along with awesome off road ability….
Plus the v8 that gets around 19-20mpg on the Hiway.
Whole lotta words and not many pictures being thrown around here.
It doesn't surge. You just drop from 325 to 270hp when the battery is depleted until the top of the hill. That's how the tundra works. And every other hybrid.Ohk buddy
Other week on a Long incline… I didn’t see the power energy transfer from Engine to battery and…….. wheels from engine within the systems readout,Of both engine and electric motors.
It was able to climb the incline
For only a few seconds and then there was a dramatic difference in power… untill energy recouped in battery… then an additional boost of Hp happened for few seconds…. Then it dropped dramatically back to its normal power because the Electric motors did nothing.
Yep
That happened for the 4 mile incline I was on…. Giving full Hp and then not.
So much so, I pulled over, left some luggage on side of road because I was at max Payload.
Yep, that’s how it was for the 10hr road trip.
You’re well aware of what happened on the recent trip and explained it well.
Thank you
It's not magic. It's just a battery that can add energy until it runs out. It can't make energy. If the engine is maxed out, it can't pull any from the engine. We know how much battery capacity it has, so it's an easy calculation to assume 100% SOC and figure out much power it can add and for how long.
I think it'll be great for most users. It does have it's limitations though. And I think it's a good trade off for 27mpg. Not a good trade if it's something like 19/23/21. In that case I'd rather have the TTV6.
Agreed, but the thing the 4x4 sellers don't care to admit to, for people that will spend 95% of there time on road, generally speaking, a unibody will give a more comfortable ride.
Then the next thing to consider, many "offroaders" really will never tackle more than a firetrail. The interesting thing about the Santa Fe XRT concept, they got a 2 inch life on it, so it has the higher stance look many want that draws them to BOF.
The by far bigger thing is that 4x4 buyers don't either.
Yes everything is guestimates until we get the official numbers.
I think Grand Highlander Max AWD drivetrain is most similar to the 250, but also not exact same drivetrain.
Yes, 2.4T Hybrid and AWD, but transverse engine. Not sure if its a two motor system or single motor (inline) like the LC. But it is 6AT instead of 8AT. The 8-speed might give some highway mpg benefit by having a super overdrive gear to drop rpms.
Grand Highlander Max is rated at total system combined 365hp and 400lb-ft; compared to LC at 326hp and 465lb-ft. The Grand Highlander has more hp focus vs the torque focus of the LC hybrid system, the electric motor can do more work at low speeds while a low ratio top gear can improve highway mpg by dropping cruising rpms.
Grand Highlander Max AWD is just under 5000lbs, I think we can expect the TLC to be a little heavier being BOF, despite being a bit physcially smaller.
Rated at 26/27/27mpg (city/highway/combined).
The "regular" Grand Highlander AWD has the 2.4T but no hybrid, rated at 20/26/22; so hybrid sees 6mpg gain city, 1mpg highway, and 5mpg combined. The non-hybrid is about 400lbs lighter.
Similarly, lets look at the tundra, which is a bigger vehicle than the TLC, bigger engine, hybrid system specifically designed for torque...but also similar to LC since its longitudinal with single motor between engine and transmission, and looks to have the same electric motor based on hp/torque/battery size. Looking at the 4WD Limited/Platinum/1794 trim: 17/22/19 mpg for the gas-only, 19/22/20 for the hybrid...so not as significant gain. Weight difference is about 500lbs heavier
BUT we will find out...eventually.
This is about five pages now talking almost exclusively about gas mileage. You sound like a bunch of spinsters at a Bingo parlor. Toyota does not know what the mpg will be. We will know in about two years when members here report their mileage results, if anyone is remotely interested then. Because this is supposedly a discussion of Landcruisers and not Corollas. If you are obsessed about mpg get an econo box, trucks are not for you!
