LANDTANK - Front brake upgrade for 16" rims (2 Viewers)

[landtank]

So had time to finalize the kit and I'm real pleased with the outcome.

This kit uses slightly:
Larger Rotors
Larger Brake pads
Better mechanical advantage

Having a better mechanical advantage is a double edged sword. On one hand it takes less effort to build pressure, but on the other hand the pedal travels further to do so.

When my son, who has had 2 80s and drove them for more than 9 years, commented after driving the truck after the initial install that "it stops better but the pedal is more soft".

This was after installing the kit and replacing both rear calipers and rotors as well. My truck is a 1995 with 330,000 miles on it and the kit really brought out the age in the system.

The first thing I noticed was the soft lines moving while applying the brakes with the engine running. Any movement in the system components effects pressure and pedal height. So in went new Toyota soft lines. I had already installed longer drops so it was just the 4 corners at the calipers.

This improved the pedal some but the final step was to stiffen the sensing spring on the LSPV. I've noticed while bleeding brakes in the past with the engine running the sensing spring would deflect under high pressure. And if I stopped that deflection the pedal feel would improve.

My solution to this was to sleeve the spring with some HD heat shrink to stiffen the spring and limit the deflection. It worked great.

So I should have pricing next week as well as expected delivery.

Beside basic tools you will need wire tie pliers and wire as well and a heat gun for the heat shrink. I would buy a reversible set of pliers in the 6" size. Its a tight job.

 

[PFDD]

Rich,

Do you have a recommended wire diameter for the safety wire? Sorry if it's a dumb question but I've never used the tool though I've seen it used. There are plenty of choices and I'd rather go with your recommendation.

Thanks,

Brad

 

[landtank]

So concerning the safety wiring the rotors. I'm by no means and expert and in fact this is the first time that I've used safety wire. If you are going to install this kit I think it's important for you to not only have the tools but to have actual experience in the process for when you might have to service the rotors. There is no better time that during the initial install.

The wire you will need is stainless steel in a .032" dia and a set of wire tie pliers. The pliers I bought were Milbar 25W. They are 6" long, reversible and have cushioned jaws so that when you trim the wire it holds the waste in place.

As far as tying the bolts, this can become an intricate art form but what I chose to do and what was shown earlier in this thread is a "Git'r Done" approach. This approach looped the wire through the first screw head and then after the initial twist tying it off around the adjacent head. This technique requires 12 ties, one for each screw.

The next more "advanced" approach would be to loop the wire though the first head and then after the initial twist, loop the tails through the adjacent head tying both bolts together with a single tie reducing the number of ties to only six.

The goal of this is to prevent the possibility of the bolts loosening and it's imperative that the wire is wrapped around the head in the direction that supports this.

For the first bolt cut the wire twice as long as the distance between three bolts. This will ensure that first tie is long enough and you can adjust the length afterwards based on the waste you are cutting off.

On the first bolt you will feed the wire half way through the bolt and then take one tail and wrap it clockwise around the head, pulling the tails to the adjacent bolt and clamping the pliers onto the tails aligned with the center of that adjacent bolt and twisting the wires in a clockwise direction. The clockwise twist will help keep the tail that looped around the initial head from climbing up and off of it.

With my "Git'r Done" approach, I would then lay the tails on either side of the second bolt head and then thread the second wire tie through the second bolt head to help hold the tails of the previous bolt in place while twisting them. For the second bolt I would wrap one tail around the head as previously done but this time it would go around the previous wire tie ensuring it couldn't ride up and off the bolt head. And this will continue until all bolts are secure.

With the "advanced" approach you would take the two tails that have already been twisted on the first bolt and pass one tail through the bolt head and the second tail around the bolt head and twisting it off to the first tail. In this case you would want to twist the wire in a counter clockwise motion so that the tail that wraps around the bolt head is naturally held down on the head. This is the reason for a reversible set of pliers.

You will want to make sure that all the twisted ends are bent out of the way or they might make contact with the seal that mounts to the spindle and make a scratching sound.

After reading this it might seem complicated but if you look at my earlier post showing the wire tying it will hopefully make more sense. I'm sure others on MUD with more experience than me can offer advice and help those with this task as well.

 

[ajax1]

So looking at your safety wire, I would just tie two bolts together then do the next two. The gabs you have at the start are not good. You should go through the hole, then wrap one side the wire around in tighten position to the other end then start the twist. Will what you did work, maybe but it wouldn’t pass as correct. Take your tails and bend them around instead of straight. I’ll try get ya pic to show what I mean.
Brakes seem like cool idea though so thanks for the option

 

[landtank]

Not sure what a gab is but I started just as you said. Try as I might I couldn’t get the wire taught enough when I linked to bolts together.

 

[BeachnCruiser]

Wow, you put in a ton of work on this. great information. This would have helped a few months ago . I have a 91' FJ80 and the need for larger brakes for my 17" wheels with 37" tires was pretty strong. I found the 96' Calipers and drilled and slotted rotors seemed to be the ticket. My MC is starting to go out so an upgrade there is next. I increased my stopping power tremendously. I got the whole set up at NAPA for around $300. I did have to grind off the lip of the rotor guard so they would fit. But that wasn't such a big deal. The 96' plates are ridiculously priced. This was very easy and everything bolted right up. I know they probably aren't as big as the 100 but it works great for me.

 

[ajax1]

I meant gap , as soon as you pull out of the hole and wrap the head you start a twist immediately. Notice in the pic the wire goes through the hole then is wrapped around the head in tightening direction the n it picks up the other wire end and you start your twist. You don’t wrap all your bolts together like you did there is no need. If you want to do all bolts together then you do a single wire and not a twist

 

[landtank]

View attachment 2390427I meant gap , as soon as you pull out of the hole and wrap the head you start a twist immediately. Notice in the pic the wire goes through the hole then is wrapped around the head in tightening direction the n it picks up the other wire end and you start your twist. You don’t wrap all your bolts together like you did there is no need. If you want to do all bolts together then you do a single wire and not a twist

thanks for the tip. It makes more sense to me now. I figured you had a mispelling but I wasn't sure if the correct word was "Tabs" or "Gaps".

 

[PFDD]

Excellent information, thank you! I'm going to waste a ton of wire initially...!

 

[PFDD]

Any updates on projected availability?

 

[landtank]

So right now I'm working through some changes to the LSPV. I've got a quote for 20 hats which would build out 10 kits.

 

[PFDD]

Thank you Rick. I am in need and VA will start enforcing tag expirations and inspection failures by the end of Oct. I was hoping to substantially upgrade the front end braking with your kit rather than just putting in new pads but I can buy some time doing that if you think this may go long?

 

[landtank]

I honestly can’t say. I’m juggling a lot right now.
With the new setup the brake pedal is a little softer. The truck stops better but I know the pedal feel is exacerbated by the LSPV and how it reacts to lifting the truck and adding weight.
I just want to release a kit that people will be thrilled with the results. I’m not there right now.

 

[PFDD]

Understood. I'll put pads on what I have to pass inspection then. Appreciate juggling of competing demands myself.

 

[landtank]

So finally worked through my pedal response.

First I was seeing the soft lines flex when the brakes were applied so those were replaced and that flexing stopped.

Then there was an issue with my front left rotor contacting the the caliper on only two of the 5 spokes of the rim. This turned out to be a bad wheel hub. I initially replaced the bearings and found when I installed the assembly on the spindle and hand tightened the 54 mm nut there was a wobble present. With enough force it would seem to go away but there was obviously something wrong with it. I sourced a used hub assembly and the wobble at hand tight has been resolved.

Lastly, while bleeding the brakes with the engine running I noticed that the LSPV sensing spring (rod) was also flexing under high pressure and also influencing the pedal feel negatively. So a mod was designed to remedy this. Given the fact that we routinely add weight and increase tire size I felt we have the traction to increase the braking force being applied to the rear tires. This was accomplished by altering the position of the LSPV itself, stiffening the spring rod and a multi position plate to raise the rod at the axle to coincide with the amount of lift on the truck. At this point if people were so inclined they could preform the calibration of the system with gauges as described in the FSM. Since I have a 4" lift and believe it to be that, and since it has some rake to it I set the rear plate to a position that would correspond to a 5" lift.

The pedal feel is great and linear and braking can be felt with only the slightest pressure being applied.

At this point I am going to draw the parts for the LSPV mod and have 5 sets of hats machined.

Right now my thoughts are to have those interested purchase the parts that would be considered consumable themselves and I only supply specialized components and those that I feel is the best given multiple choices. Having users purchase items like rotors and calipers would save on shipping and those individuals would have a direct avenue with the seller concerning any warranty claims and know what is needed for future repairs.

The brake down would be as follows:

USER:
Rotors- wilwood P# 160-8746 and 160-8747 - 1 ea.
Rotor bolts - wilwood P# 230-4572 - 2pcs
Calipers - Toyota P# 47750-60090 and 47730-60090 - 1ea
Caliper fitting kit - Toyota P# 04947-60100 - 1ea
Caliper Shim Kit - Toyota P# 04945-60010 - 1ea
Caliper Pins - Toyota P# 90240-06024 - 4pcs
Caliper Clip - Toyota P# 90468-12015 - 2pcs
Caliper Banjo bolt - Toyota P# 90105-12175 - 2pcs
Banjo Bolt Gasket - Toyota P# 90201-12452 - 2pcs
Safety Pliers - suggest reversible style 6"
Safety Wire - .032"
Brake Pads for a 2004 Toyota 100 series Land cruiser, I used Hawk LTS for reference.

LANDTANK:
2- Rotor hats
Socket for installing and torquing mounting bolts
Master cylinder - this will be for an ABS truck unless otherwise specified by buyer
Master cylinder/Booster depth gauge
Master Cylinder Float Harness
LSPV Mod

EDIT: the cost for the LANDTANK portion is going to be as follows

Brake upgrade only 700.00
LSPV only 165.00
Brake and LSPV 825.00

What are your thoughts and suggestions?

 

[eimkeith]

I'm interested.

 

[Stylo07]

So finally worked through my pedal response.

First I was seeing the soft lines flex when the brakes were applied so those were replaced and that flexing stopped.

Then there was an issue with my front left rotor contacting the the caliper on only two of the 5 spokes of the rim. This turned out to be a bad wheel hub. I initially replaced the bearings and found when I installed the assembly on the spindle and hand tightened the 54 mm nut there was a wobble present. With enough force it would seem to go away but there was obviously something wrong with it. I sourced a used hub assembly and the wobble at hand tight has been resolved.

Lastly, while bleeding the brakes with the engine running I noticed that the LSPV sensing spring (rod) was also flexing under high pressure and also influencing the pedal feel negatively. So a mod was designed to remedy this. Given the fact that we routinely add weight and increase tire size I felt we have the traction to increase the braking force being applied to the rear tires. This was accomplished by altering the position of the LSPV itself, stiffening the spring rod and a multi position plate to raise the rod at the axle to coincide with the amount of lift on the truck. At this point if people were so inclined they could preform the calibration of the system with gauges as described in the FSM. Since I have a 4" lift and believe it to be that, and since it has some rake to it I set the rear plate to a position that would correspond to a 5" lift.

The pedal feel is great and linear and braking can be felt with only the slightest pressure being applied.

At this point I am going to draw the parts for the LSPV mod and have 5 sets of hats machined.

Right now my thoughts are to have those interested purchase the parts that would be considered consumable themselves and I only supply specialized components and those that I feel is the best given multiple choices. Having users purchase items like rotors and calipers would save on shipping and those individuals would have a direct avenue with the seller concerning any warranty claims and know what is needed for future repairs.

The brake down would be as follows:

USER:
Rotors- wilwood P# 160-8746 and 160-8747 - 1 ea.
Rotor bolts - wilwood P# 230-4572 - 2pcs
Calipers - Toyota P# 47750-60090 and 47730-60090 - 1ea
Caliper fitting kit - Toyota P# 04947-60100 - 1ea
Caliper Shim Kit - Toyota P# 04945-60010 - 1ea
Caliper Pins - Toyota P# 90240-06024 - 4pcs
Caliper Clip - Toyota P# 90468-12015 - 2pcs
Caliper Banjo bolt - Toyota P# 90105-12175 - 2pcs
Banjo Bolt Gasket - Toyota P# 90201-12452 - 2pcs
Safety Pliers - suggest reversible style 6"
Safety Wire - .032"
Brake Pads for a 2004 Toyota 100 series Land cruiser, I used Hawk LTS for reference.

LANDTANK:
2- Rotor hats
Socket for installing and torquing mounting bolts
Master cylinder - this will be for an ABS truck unless otherwise specified by buyer
Master cylinder/Booster depth gauge
Master Cylinder Float Harness
LSPV Mod

I'm hoping to have a cost for my part of the equation in a couple of weeks.

What are your thoughts and suggestions?

I’m intrigued by improved braking. Do you know rough cost for total parts? I understand the price isn’t fixed — just looking for ballpark.

 

[landtank]

I’m intrigued by improved braking. Do you know rough cost for total parts? I understand the price isn’t fixed — just looking for ballpark.

ballpark WAG might be around $1700.00. The big dollar items on the user list are the calipers and rotors.

 

[ChargedSHOTaco]

I’ll take a set.

 

[tacocat]

Mr. Tank, what is the diameter difference between the 80 rotors and 100 rotors? I dig your rotor hats, but for a different reason.

I believe they would make break and hub service a little easier with Mark’s 4WDs relocator kit.

The rotor hat night negate the need to remove the reluctor ring to service the rotor.