A winch will use an infinitesimal amount of power relative to the size of the battery. Winches are hugely geared to multiply torque. They don't necessarily use much power. You're correct to think the traction motor will use way more power.
Land Cruiser vs Cyber Truck
- Thread starter Reckless
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A winch will use an infinitesimal amount of power relative to the size of the battery. Winches are hugely geared to multiply torque. They don't necessarily use much power. You're correct to think the traction motor will use way more power.
Volvo:
Infiniti:
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It was tested backstage:
Tesla Model S swimming. Как Тесла переплыла потоп.
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bullet proof glass doesn't mean shatter proof glass. just like auto pilot doesn't mean self driving. The use of new glass material is an attempt to solve some growing epidemics with vehicle smash-and-grab vehicle break-ins. If having different glass material reduces the likeliness for my personal items to get stolen from my vehicle, it keeps me interested to learn more about it.
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Not 200, and not tech.
There is a great chit-chat forum for chit like this. Even a tesla truck thread: Thoughts on Tesla pickup truck
The only overlap I can see is that people that can afford a new tesla truck (or a rivan, or a new Defender or new 300 series) may also be in the market for a land cruiser. I don't see why we need this in the 200 tech forum.
One of the things I've always loved about 'Mud is that it stays mostly tech, unlike some of the other forums I've spent time on that devolve into wax, oil, and chit chat about unrelated stuff. I wish we would keep it focused like that and take the other stuff to the chit chat forum.
There is a great chit-chat forum for chit like this. Even a tesla truck thread: Thoughts on Tesla pickup truck
The only overlap I can see is that people that can afford a new tesla truck (or a rivan, or a new Defender or new 300 series) may also be in the market for a land cruiser. I don't see why we need this in the 200 tech forum.
One of the things I've always loved about 'Mud is that it stays mostly tech, unlike some of the other forums I've spent time on that devolve into wax, oil, and chit chat about unrelated stuff. I wish we would keep it focused like that and take the other stuff to the chit chat forum.
- Thread starter
- #125
It's an apt comparison between two competing vehicles. It's about the future of mudding/offroading. We spent years dreaming about the 300 and tesla may have beaten Toyota to the punch. I think electric motors are going to wipe out ICE and even though the 200 is the ultimate ICE vehicle for me but Tesla has puled off the impossible. The cyber truck is going to be better than the LC and offer better specs:
There was unnecessary arguments about the history of Tesla and what they charge and deliver. I'm not a Tesla Fanboy but think they are doing something revolutionary. There is a reason why Toyota is planning to kill off the Land Cruiser brand in US after 60 year legacy.
There was unnecessary arguments about the history of Tesla and what they charge and deliver. I'm not a Tesla Fanboy but think they are doing something revolutionary. There is a reason why Toyota is planning to kill off the Land Cruiser brand in US after 60 year legacy.
"I'm not a tesla fanboy but" [insert tesla fanboyisms]
The reason toyota MIGHT kill off the cruiser brand here is they don't market them and as a result they don't sell well. For every report of that happening there is one that the LX will remain, so it's not as though the gasoline-powered very-capable ultra-durable large SUV market has fallen into a black hole with Elon's hideous pipe dream of a "truck".
The reason toyota MIGHT kill off the cruiser brand here is they don't market them and as a result they don't sell well. For every report of that happening there is one that the LX will remain, so it's not as though the gasoline-powered very-capable ultra-durable large SUV market has fallen into a black hole with Elon's hideous pipe dream of a "truck".
Ya I can't see Toyota killing the LX. They sell a fair amount of them.
- Thread starter
- #129
I actually don't like Tesla Model S/X/3 and ended up NOT buying them. They were interesting products. I drove a $120k Tesla S P100D Ludicrous vehicle for 3 days debating whether it was worth the money. I hated the suspension/tire setup and felt like it was a nice toy. I may change my feeling about the Cyber Truck once I drive one. I hope it drives more like a truck with the bigger wheel/tire combo. The only feature I liked about the Tesla was the autopilot. I also felt that their vehicles were half ugly, nothing sexy about them.
I feel my theory about why Toyota would kill off such a successful brand is because they can see the writing on the wall and wanted to save face. The LX does not have brand power like Land Cruiser has. It may be the same vehicle but LX does not hold the reputation that the Land Cruiser does.
Elon Musk may be ahead of his time with the look of this vehicle. It might be time for a revolution in car design. The angular lines are more consistent with the car of the future. I love the cold rolled steel idea - hammer and 9mm bulletproof. Think of the hot rods of 1950s which look archaic now. Maybe the modern car is due for a change. I imagine he is going to sell 300k of these cyber trucks and once they are on the road it may make other cars feel old and dated. I talked to over 20+ guys around the age of 20 and ALL of them loved the Cyber Truck. It sounds like change is around the corner.
No, it's not. Really. The cybertruck is not a vehicle for 'mudding', and it is certainly not a vehicle for offroading. These things will be bought by those that want to impress the Joneses (ie. the same reasons you've stated earlier for putting in your own order), much like the people who buy brand new iPhones every September. Consumerism, disguised under false pretence.
Despite all their technological specs and promises, 99.99% of these thing will never leave the interstate and mall parking lots. The ones that do leave will be always worried about battery life and range. But that's not even the biggest worry: the biggest problem is that Tesla is a new company, with very little experience building vehicles. Their quality control is well known to leave much to be desired, and that's for street vehicles that are not subjected to off-road/washboard vibrations and abuse.
The real test will be how Teslas behave after a few hundred miles on Saline Valley-style washboard. I wouldn't place a bet on any outcome, but will happily read about other people's experiences when the time comes.
So you talked to kids just out of diapers, with no real world experience and naive views of the world? C'mon...
Angular is not the future of car design because it is not aerodynamically efficient. Until they figure out how to make the physics of air have different rules around a cyber truck this design is more about early materials choices (SS) and impressing millennials than it is an earth shattering answer for electrifying transportation.
- Thread starter
- #134
Im not one to argue unnecessarily. FYI 2 of them placed orders after discussing friday night. I just found interesting the generation difference in thinking.
If I get one I will do light offroading possibly more if I ever get time. If it cant handle it I will get rid of it but based on height and departure and approach angles it looks like Tesla is very serious about offroad. See above clip.
We still need some suspension travel numbers before we can say much about off-road ability.
Moving beyond commentary on aesthetic design as it's no surprise given that the styling is stated up front to be divisive. And change, because many don't like change and will cast fear uncertainty doubt before any real feedback. It wouldn't be a surprise on a heritage vehicle forum like this, we have strong commentary... from those that have literally never even experienced any EV. Change is coming whether individuals want it or not.
Elementary or a miss on aesthetic design or not, the design goes way deeper than what meets the eye. It's due to material choices that it looks the way it does - hardened stainless steel is not readily shaped. There's going to be more deeper understanding coming forth on the benefits of this, that'll give this vehicle properties that don't exist in competing trucks today. It's similar to why Tesla uses glass roofs on many of their models today. Not just aesthetics, but it gives huge rigidity to their unibody structures. This will be disruptive, with benefits like manufacturability (cost), strengths, durability on so many fronts including no paint, etc. There is likely already tremors through industry causing manufacturers to re-evaluate their trades and design decisions.
Talking about AWD, 4WD, transfer cases, locking diffs... Most of that exists because of ICE powertrains, where there's a single motive power source. It's hardware to distribute single source power to 4 drive wheels. It's also to address powerband limitations of an ICE engine. Most of it will be superfluous to a multi-motor EV, which will not likely even need a low range transfer case as electric motors generally have peak torque at 0 rpm.
With multiple discrete power sources, up to 3 in the highest end variants, there's relatively less need for componentry (and weight) to distribute power. Much of the fine torque vectoring and control of each wheel is now moved into the software realm. Where there is no limitations due to physical constraints. We're going to see new possibilities of off-road capabilities because of software
control logic and strategies, much as we're seeing with currently available Tesla on-road models. Imagine getting new versions of ATRAC, CRAWL, or even the new Turn Assist function to earlier cruiser, free and over the air. It's going to happen for the cybertruck in its off-road functions if their current stuff is anything to go by.
With the 3 motor variant, it's likely that each rear wheel will receive a dedicated motor. With the front "axle" having a single motor or lesser variants having a single motor on the axle, Tesla is likely to use similar control strategies to current models, which is to use brake calipers to apportion torque between the 2 wheels. Much like how ATRAC/CRAWL in Toyota's use brakes, or stability control in many ICE vehicles. The level of control will be much more fine than the hurkey jerky CRAWL function we're familiar with. It's possible they could use things like limited slips and lockers, but perhaps unlikely as Tesla has had so much success with digital controls. Just as the 200-series doesn't overly rely on lockers.
Will it wheel? I'm not sure that's a question as they're demonstrating with 35s, rather large suspension range with the air suspension, independent suspension architecture which further increases clearance. Completely smooth underbelly with nothing to catch. Likely with significant under-armor as most any EV has today to protect the batts (Model S already uses titanium armor in places). The body is already demonstrably durable with hardened stainless construction. It won't have a weaker underbelly as protecting the batteries is greatly important.
Maybe we'll start asking for hardened cold-rolled stainless steel for 200-series armor.
Elementary or a miss on aesthetic design or not, the design goes way deeper than what meets the eye. It's due to material choices that it looks the way it does - hardened stainless steel is not readily shaped. There's going to be more deeper understanding coming forth on the benefits of this, that'll give this vehicle properties that don't exist in competing trucks today. It's similar to why Tesla uses glass roofs on many of their models today. Not just aesthetics, but it gives huge rigidity to their unibody structures. This will be disruptive, with benefits like manufacturability (cost), strengths, durability on so many fronts including no paint, etc. There is likely already tremors through industry causing manufacturers to re-evaluate their trades and design decisions.
Talking about AWD, 4WD, transfer cases, locking diffs... Most of that exists because of ICE powertrains, where there's a single motive power source. It's hardware to distribute single source power to 4 drive wheels. It's also to address powerband limitations of an ICE engine. Most of it will be superfluous to a multi-motor EV, which will not likely even need a low range transfer case as electric motors generally have peak torque at 0 rpm.
With multiple discrete power sources, up to 3 in the highest end variants, there's relatively less need for componentry (and weight) to distribute power. Much of the fine torque vectoring and control of each wheel is now moved into the software realm. Where there is no limitations due to physical constraints. We're going to see new possibilities of off-road capabilities because of software
control logic and strategies, much as we're seeing with currently available Tesla on-road models. Imagine getting new versions of ATRAC, CRAWL, or even the new Turn Assist function to earlier cruiser, free and over the air. It's going to happen for the cybertruck in its off-road functions if their current stuff is anything to go by.
With the 3 motor variant, it's likely that each rear wheel will receive a dedicated motor. With the front "axle" having a single motor or lesser variants having a single motor on the axle, Tesla is likely to use similar control strategies to current models, which is to use brake calipers to apportion torque between the 2 wheels. Much like how ATRAC/CRAWL in Toyota's use brakes, or stability control in many ICE vehicles. The level of control will be much more fine than the hurkey jerky CRAWL function we're familiar with. It's possible they could use things like limited slips and lockers, but perhaps unlikely as Tesla has had so much success with digital controls. Just as the 200-series doesn't overly rely on lockers.
Will it wheel? I'm not sure that's a question as they're demonstrating with 35s, rather large suspension range with the air suspension, independent suspension architecture which further increases clearance. Completely smooth underbelly with nothing to catch. Likely with significant under-armor as most any EV has today to protect the batts (Model S already uses titanium armor in places). The body is already demonstrably durable with hardened stainless construction. It won't have a weaker underbelly as protecting the batteries is greatly important.
Maybe we'll start asking for hardened cold-rolled stainless steel for 200-series armor.
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- Thread starter
- #137
From Motortrend:
"Although we don't know all the details and capabilities of the four-corner air suspension, we do know it has massive amounts of tire travel (possibly as much as 14 inches from full droop to full compression), with up to 6 inches of air-ride adjustability—from kneel to full 4x4 extension. Depending on how well the engine and traction control software is tuned, this could be more impressive than anything we've seen in a long time. In many ways, we're reminded of the long-gone military-styled Hummer H1, with its impressive wide-body stance, heavy-duty construction, and form-over-function styling. (Still, we'd love to see the Cybertruck get a central tire inflation system.)
From a powertrain point of view, off-road enthusiasts know that getting as much torque as possible as close to idle as possible is always a good thing, and since electric motors have essentially 100 percent of all available torque at 0 rpm, that bodes well, to say the least, for superior trail performance.
In regard to its exterior look, we also like that designers included a functional wraparound rock rail, protecting the passenger doors and the exposed rear quarter panels. These rails also act as an access step for passengers, as well as those needing to get into the bed or wipe down the roof. Underneath, there's a completely flat belly (where the battery packs are kept) and a long-A-arm independent suspension at each corner; it would be quite easy to envision a dedicated setting to allow for a rock-crawl mode below a certain speed. Naturally, we'd also hope there's some kind of high-speed desert wash setting. No doubt there should also be a dedicated traction screen to allow the driver (and passengers) to monitor things like wheel angle, tire pressures, suspension compression/extension, and which tire has the most/best traction. Of course, we'd also want a big icon to keep track of how quickly we're losing battery power as we play in the desert heat.
A key issue working against the Cybertruck in four-wheel-drive situations is its size and weight. We've been told designers worked hard to keep the overall length close to a crew cab long-bed half-ton pickup, which translates to a wheelbase of just under 150 inches. That's pretty long—this is a big truck.
Track width, as well, is wider than any of the non-Raptor set; we wouldn't be surprised if federal regulations require rooftop running lights (like one-ton duallys have to have). Of course, the advantage of the extra track width is that it will be more likely to stay out of those Jeep-sized holes and ruts on the more popular trails, as well as offer more cargo area inside the truck bed—there are no intruding fenderwells in the bed. Finally, depending on which electric motors you select and the size of your battery pack, this vehicle won't be light. Right now, we don't know exactly how much it will weigh, but it's a safe bet you can think about the heaviest truck in the half-ton segment, then add close to 1,000 pounds.
We'd imagine it won't take too long for Tesla's accessories arm to start making accommodations for things like a front winch, some recovery gear storage boxes, and even rooftop luggage racks. Whether they come before a dedicated Expedition special edition package, complete with electronic push-button front and rear locking differentials (it should be simple software programming), we'll have to wait and see. And we wouldn't be surprised to see more integrated bed and side-panel hidden storage, as well.
In the meantime, it looks like the Cybertruck designers have included all the right foundational designs to make a pretty good off-roading platform. We have no doubt we'll be seeing some of these trucks (once they go on sale next year) at the next set of Overland Expo shows and maybe even one of the SCORE Baja races (we're assuming they'll get a few Superchargers set up in Mexico by then). Until then, you can bet we have our route planned. When we get tossed the keys, we'll know exactly which Rocky Mountain and Sierra Nevada 4x4 trails we'll be headed to for our initial tests. More to come."
tesla
Sounds promising, but "possibly as much as" makes it clear they don't really know either.
Also that's a damn long wheelbase.. hasn't everything from the 80-series on been 112"? At least with SS panels you won't have to worry about pinstriping the apparently very wide body..
Also that's a damn long wheelbase.. hasn't everything from the 80-series on been 112"? At least with SS panels you won't have to worry about pinstriping the apparently very wide body..
Yes it'll be a big long truck so Jeep goat trails might be out of the question.
I wouldn't discount it having poor maneuverability on account of its long wheelbase however. It's an EV. A Tesla. It should be obvious by now they're not going to play by the same ground rules we've been beholden to since solid axles were created.
I would bet there's more to this story. Potential for 4 wheel steering. Zero radius tank turns by counter driving motors.
I wouldn't discount it having poor maneuverability on account of its long wheelbase however. It's an EV. A Tesla. It should be obvious by now they're not going to play by the same ground rules we've been beholden to since solid axles were created.
I would bet there's more to this story. Potential for 4 wheel steering. Zero radius tank turns by counter driving motors.
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Traditionalists need not apply. But more and more people including myself are warming up to this after the initial shock and awe. Buddy with a Raptor on 37s and all the fixings put his order in for one today. He's ready to move on.
In other news, seems like Toyota is potentially tone def on EVs. While still pushing hydrogen? How about they give us a competitive 300-series already?
Re-imagined renderings of the cybertruck are ablaze on the the interwebs.
In other news, seems like Toyota is potentially tone def on EVs. While still pushing hydrogen? How about they give us a competitive 300-series already?
Re-imagined renderings of the cybertruck are ablaze on the the interwebs.
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