Land Cruiser vs Cyber Truck (1 Viewer)

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If the M3 were all wheel drive as well it would be a different story. I would expect the handling edge to go to the vehicle with so much of its weight a few inches off the ground, even without extra sticky tires.. but I do wonder which is actually more fun to drive. The reality is very few people can extract the full potential of either of these cars.. and the AWD/all-season tires one would probably be easier for the average person to approach that limit safely, but over the years I’ve learned to look at what’s more fun than more fast (in the hands of a professional).

Besides.. In ‘21 the M3 will supposedly be AWD with 480-510hp. Maybe that comparison caused BMW to up their game.
 
bloc said:
If the M3 were all wheel drive as well it would be a different story. I would expect the handling edge to go to the vehicle with so much of its weight a few inches off the ground, even without extra sticky tires.. but I do wonder which is actually more fun to drive. The reality is very few people can extract the full potential of either of these cars.. and the AWD/all-season tires one would probably be easier for the average person to approach that limit safely, but over the years I’ve learned to look at what’s more fun than more fast (in the hands of a professional).

Besides.. In ‘21 the M3 will supposedly be AWD with 480-510hp. Maybe that comparison caused BMW to up their game.
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I love German cars. Serious German cars. I've done my share of fun as a track rat.

I likewise doubted that a Tesla could be fun. The general opinion of those that have not experienced an EV in anger would think as I did, no noise, no engagement, robotic experience.

My opinion, BMWs are snore. They're already loosing serious market share. A gas vehicle whether bmw or other is quickly becoming obsolete because a pedestrian Tesla can spank it. On the street, an EV is untouchable because of response. And that response feels directly wired to one's right foot, making it incredibly exciting. As much as I like performance German cars, I frankly have zero interest in what BMW is now trying to do to keep up.
 
Teck: You bring up a valid point. EVs lack soul. ICE vehicles (esp germans) have some kind of feeling to them. I've driven 2 Tesla model S and felt like they are boring and bland (even with ludicrous mode).

I did order the CyberTruck as I think its bold and attractive. But I imagine it will feel soulless. I'm hoping by next year full self driving will be out by its launch time and I can use my tablet/laptop while its driving.
 
Only 146,000 on order this morning I think Ford may be in trouble. New movie Ford vs Tesla

Not that ugly if 150,000 people order it in 24 hours. I may change my order to AWD model. Can someone explain to me the difference between AWD and 4WD from an offroad perspective?
 
Reckless said:
Can someone explain to me the difference between AWD and 4WD from an offroad perspective?
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4WD or 4x4: 50% power going to front axle, 50% going to the rear, by virtual of the transfer case
AWD: some power going to front axle, some power going to the rear, by virtue of the centre differential

The 200 series allows you to lock the centre diff, making the vehicle 4WD.

You want 4WD off-road, and you want AWD on-road.
 
Just for grins out of 146,000 how many as shown will actually be built and delivered? At a C note a pop I' ll bet many figured Hell why not throw in just incase this is the one time Elon delivers. What really happened is with the 14,600,000 he will be able to cover payroll this month for Space X, L.A. Tunnel crew and Tesla crew.
 
So cyber truck is on road truck.
eatSleepWoof said:
4WD or 4x4: 50% power going to front axle, 50% going to the rear, by virtual of the transfer case
AWD: some power going to front axle, some power going to the rear, by virtue of the centre differential

The 200 series allows you to lock the centre diff, making the vehicle 4WD.

You want 4WD off-road, and you want AWD on-road.
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Since its an electric motor can't they control the amount of power going to each axle especially since its dual motors?
 
Reckless said:
Only 146,000 on order this morning I think Ford may be in trouble. New movie Ford vs Tesla

Not that ugly if 150,000 people order it in 24 hours. I may change my order to AWD model. Can someone explain to me the difference between AWD and 4WD from an offroad perspective?
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146K ponied up a hundred bucks to get on a list that will be years and years out (giving Tesla a nice interest free loan). I doubt it will translate directly to 146K sales. Tens of thousands of Model 3 pre-orders were cancelled. I am sure this will be similar. These pre-orders will probably exceed the Model 3 as it's only $100 vs the Model 3 $1000. For a hundred bucks, sure why not. I seriously doubt many F150 owners are looking at this thing and saying "yeah, that is my next truck"
 
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slipkid13 said:
No hatred here, just anti-fanboi-ism. I am sorry actual facts hurt your feelings
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You're commenting as an outsider. With an obviously huge gap in real knowledge or understanding.

Frankly with your antifanboism and misconstrued facts... You're the one missing out. Perhaps one day you'll understand why. All these well to do and educated individuals choose to own Tesla's. Sure it's a statement. But there's more. Much much more.
 
Realistically the difference between AWD and 4WD off-road is only a debate in the context of prior drivetrains. The ability to send individual power to any wheel, with a good sensing and control system, is revolutionary. There is no need to lock the front driveline to the rear when the vehicle can sense wheel slip and reduce torque to that wheel, and independently increase torque to one with traction, in real time.

Atrac (the foundation of crawl control and what toyotas have done for diff-lock-lite for years) isn’t quite as good as a real locker because it can only do half of the equation. It can only reduce rpm on a spinning tire.. which does increase torque to the other one on that axle presumably with traction. The problem is if you stop the spinning tire completely, it suddenly halves the torque and doubles the speed to the wheel that you do want spinning. In theory this is great and CAN work the same as a locker, but in practice it is limited by the ABS/stability control system and it’s ability to apply brakes with pretty low resolution.

Electric motors on each wheel can just not apply power to one it senses slipping, and keep applying power to the other one on that axle. And with -very- high resolution.. meaning it can adjust this balance tens or hundreds (I assume) of times per second. it might even take suspension position into account, assuming that a corner that is at full extension likely doesn’t have firm contact, and a wheel that is stuffed has more contact force and therefore traction potential.

Basically, I don’t quite think it’ll match a landcruiser because it just isn’t built for the same goals, but a system like this has a ton of potential.

I’m still not sold on the styling or on Tesla truly understanding how people will abuse these things.. but I also don’t expect the first iteration to be the final answer.
 
I wish it was a two door vehicle. I think a shorter version would be so much better looking.
 
eatSleepWoof said:
4WD or 4x4: 50% power going to front axle, 50% going to the rear, by virtual of the transfer case
AWD: some power going to front axle, some power going to the rear, by virtue of the centre differential

The 200 series allows you to lock the centre diff, making the vehicle 4WD.

You want 4WD off-road, and you want AWD on-road.
Click to expand...
I also thought 4WD was something you can click on and control yourself while AWD, the vehicle decides to use when it sees fit not something you can lock in to use all the time? Is this different from make to make too? Not sure, just trying to learn along.
 
cmorley said:
I also thought 4WD was something you can click on and control yourself while AWD, the vehicle decides to use when it sees fit not something you can lock in to use all the time? Is this different from make to make too? Not sure, just trying to learn along.
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Generally 4WD/4x4 means the same thing independent of make, likewise for AWD.

The convenient thing is an AWD vehicle usually has the vast majority of the parts needed for 4WD, the main difference being a “center differential” that allows you to go around corners and deal with the difference in distance traveled by the front and rear axles. All you need to do to then have 4WD is lock this center differential which accomplishes the 50/50 torque split mentioned above.

Not all AWD vehicles have that capability, but usually the ones built for actual off-road travel do, with the other important trait of those parts being robust enough to handle so much torque on a single axle. This includes our 200s.

Edit: that center differential allowing the speed difference between axles is what helps AWD avoid getting loose in ice/snow, and the system is transparent. No input needed. 4WD would tend to push the front axle in turns or let the rear get loose, since it won’t allow the front and rear axles to turn at different speeds despite their need to in turns. It’s also very bad to drive 4WD on dry pavement for the same reason, combined with abundant traction.
 
AWD with 800 pounds of torque available 100% on tap for the 50k version, 35" tires, 16" ground clearance, approach and departure angles besting a land cruiser and almost meeting a jeep. you bet your ass it's a good question Landcruiser vs Cybertruck when speaking of capability. Now, reliability and longevity, you ain't besting a Land Cruiser not even a jeep who bests it in capability. There is a reason we choose landcruiser and that's due to its 25 year service life and reliability while taking on tough roads.

Tesla will be seen in the areas we traverse, but can it do it for 25 years and not have any hiccups in reliability that's a different question since its3 capability is unquestionable.

btw, i put up the $100 for pre order for the 50k version because i fell in love with its futuristic, unique look.
 
@95Fantasma80 are you saying the cybertruck capability is unquestionable? If so I disagree, at least until we see some suspension performance metrics.

Reckless said:
Teck: You bring up a valid point. EVs lack soul. ICE vehicles (esp germans) have some kind of feeling to them. I've driven 2 Tesla model S and felt like they are boring and bland (even with ludicrous mode).

I did order the CyberTruck as I think its bold and attractive. But I imagine it will feel soulless. I'm hoping by next year full self driving will be out by its launch time and I can use my tablet/laptop while its driving.
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Interesting you mention soul. That has been one of my counterpoints to the abundance of fanboys towing the Tesla line. I’ve never questioned Tesla’s place in the industry.. frankly it’s good for automakers as a whole to have someone competent and boundary pushing to come in and mix things up. The thing is.. I went to an adventure motorcycle rally years ago and got to check out a bunch of new Ducati’s up close. They absolutely ooze passion. Soul. Whatever. There is nothing clinical about the way they are designed. I haven’t had the benefit of crawling all over a Ferrari but I have to assume it would be similar.

Others may disagree but this is what I think is missing in the Tesla’s I’ve driven and checked out. It’s hard to explain.. but even if I knew a M3 was slower on a track, I’d rather have it than a model 3 if track driving was the goal. And partly because it can go all-out for a few laps in a row. Even with German cars not being known for “soul”.. they still have more than the Tesla’s I’ve experienced, and to me when the goal is to enjoy the driving experience that means a lot.

Now as a DD.. as an appliance... I could actually see owning a 3. But not a cybertruck, not at all.
 
My theory (and I’m no hater...)
Y’all have been punked by Mr. Musk.

I think Musk is playing a very public joke here and has no intention of the eventual design visually resembling anything even close to this funky, square-cornered rear or over-all sharp-edged paper unicorn (go watch original Blade Runner to understand paper unicorn reference). ;)

I think he did it *because he can*...and will eventually reveal something DRASTICALLY different.

Major tell:
-His sloppy “armored glass” demo was a hint.
When Musk is serious...he is *anything but* sloppy in design presentations. So with his comical armored glass debacle.... There is NO WAY he would have just had some bloke throw a ball at—and SHATTER—the windows during the big reveal if he were actually serious.

As for an actual rear end, NOTHING about sharp, squared corners works well in a wind tunnel...and he knows that all too well.

As he said... He loved the funky cars in the original Blade Runner flick. He’s having fun...

GENIUS part:
He got the entire planet talking about a Tesla truck with this stunt.

So anyway... At least as far as visually...
—**I think ALL the world should consider itself officially “punked” by this little Elon Musk diversion...and should look forward to a VERY different look in the future whenever the real Tesla truck actually shows up on stage.

ih8mud Challenge:
I’ll wager a case o’ chocolate milk that this thing will someday be *laughed off* by Elon M when he finally does show off the actual article ! :cheers:

PS.
—Why did he briefly sell fun Flame Throwers?
-Because he’s creative & can afford to have fun.

—Why did he literally launch a **Tesla Roadster** into space attached to a rocket? (Yep...it’s floating out there right now)
-Because he can afford to have expensive fun (and publicity).

—Why did he design a “truck” mock-up that looks like Blade Runner cars from the 1980’s?
-Because....he can afford to have expensive fun and mess with y’all...in a GENIUS publicity stunt.
 
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