Is something wrong with my rear suspension? (1 Viewer)

[kd5kuu]

Hi all -
I am new to Land Cruisers and Toyota's in general, so I'm hoping to draw on the collective experience of this wonderful community. I bought my completely stock 2014 Land Cruiser in June of 2017 with 22,000 miles from a Land Rover dealer who took it on trade. So far, it's been an amazing vehicle!

Here's the situation - on three separate trips now when I've had the vehicle loaded with gear and/or people I can feel the rear suspension hitting the bump stops. The three scenarios:

1. 2 people, full tank of gas, rear loaded with firewood, cooler, typical camping gear, plus a bike rack with two mountain bikes on the hitch. This was possibly over the payload rating due to the firewood and cooler full of beer, but not positive. Hitting bump stops while driving down I-70, dirt roads getting to destination outside Moab were brutal.
   
2. 5 people, full tank of gas, 5 small suitcases packed for an overnight in a hotel. Hit bump stops at dips in the road. Don't believe I was over payload rating.
   
3. 5 people, half tank of gas, no other cargo. Hit bump stops while driving over speed bumps in parking lots. Pretty sure I wasn't over payload rating.

Toyota's literature states a payload capacity of 1,295 lbs.

So here's the question - Does this sound normal? I'm thinking of installing airbags in the rear like some others on Mud have done, but if something it out of sorts I'll fix that first. Plans for warmer weather: OEM strut spacers and 275/70r18 KO2's.

 

[Sandroad]

From your description, I would say it's not normal. Especially the "brutal" part and "dips in the road" part. Have you looked at the rear suspension components (shocks, bump stops, sway bar, etc.) to make sure nothing is detached, missing, or broken? Are you certain the suspension is stock? From what you've noted about use so far, airbags should not be needed (yet). When you bounce the truck up and down by standing on the tailgate, does it bounce easy and continue bouncing? If so, a shock may be bad (but that's unlikely).

 

[kd5kuu]

Hi @Sandroad - Thanks for the input! I have spent some time underneath this truck and can confirm that everything is factory original and in place. When bouncing the rear up and down by the tailgate it does not continue to bounce, the shocks appear to be doing their job in this regard. When unloaded the truck seems perfectly normal, it's only when loaded more than average.

And by "brutal" I mean I had to slow way down on bumps and dips to avoid slamming the bump stops when loaded. Level sections of road were fine.

 

[canyonrider]

Also agree that this doesn't sound normal. I've driven the same route as you (Boulder to Moab) with four people and a similar amount of gear (or more- coolers, wood, water cubes, four bikes) and have not experienced any issue like that. A fair amount of bouncing on that stretch of I70 west of Glenwood where the pavement is buckled and wavy, but I don't think we ever hit the bump stops.

Also no concerns while towing our camper plus lots of gear in the LC, although the trailer is only 3000 lb dry and I tow it with a WDH. I have a 2009 with no suspension modifications.

Going to be using my rig for six people plus ski gear and luggage in the near future, so I'll be paying closer attention to how the suspension behaves.

 

[Sandroad]

Hi @Sandroad - Thanks for the input! I have spent some time underneath this truck and can confirm that everything is factory original and in place. When bouncing the rear up and down by the tailgate it does not continue to bounce, the shocks appear to be doing their job in this regard. When unloaded the truck seems perfectly normal, it's only when loaded more than average.

And by "brutal" I mean I had to slow way down on bumps and dips to avoid slamming the bump stops when loaded. Level sections of road were fine.

Still seems odd. I've traveled with mine very heavily loaded on back roads (and pre-airbags) and never hit the bump stops hard enough to notice. The rear suspension is reasonably long travel even stock and it takes a lot to fully compress it. I wonder if something is goofy with the KDSS? Probably not, but read the post about how it works in the forum FAQs and see what you think. If everything is ok and you're getting hits from the loads you carry, I guess go with airbags. The Firestone's I put in for towing will hold up a lot of weight when pumped up.

 

[trapperbay]

I've had the same situation happen with my 2013. 2 adults, 3 teenagers and a good amount of luggage. On the freeway had a couple of bump stop bottom outs on serious undulations. A little un-nerving at freeway speeds. Also noticed hitting bump stops with same 5 people and no luggage over certain neighborhood speed bumps.

Are airbags the answer or something other than stock shocks? I really have no desire to do an OME setup or anything like that.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

This sounds normal to me. How much do your "5" people weight combined?

I would recommend that before you buy anything, the next time you load up the whole crew for a trip, stop at a CAT scale and find out how much you actually weight. Sometimes it can be very... enlightening, I know it always is for me.

As far as airbags, @linuxgod would be one of the very knowledge ones for that. I only know the more mechanical items on our 200s.

 

[linuxgod]

Airbags would help with the bottoming out when you're loaded down, though they'll make your ride stiffer when you inflate them above the nominal 5psi. It's not quite the same ride as replacing your stock springs with heavier duty ones, but it's close. If you think something isn't quite right with the rear suspension have everything checked out first though.

FWIW I had previously bottomed out going over those ~15-20mph speed bumps with 3 kids in the 2nd row (about 300#) and 4 bikes on a hitch-mounted bike carrier. The stock 170# coils in the rear are soft, IMO and if you carry heavy loads regularly I'd start with 240# springs (which is what I have, and with rack, sliders, and larger spare tire I'm only carrying maybe 100# extra in the rear).

 

[NLScooby]

How many miles are on your rig? It may be time for a simple spring upgrade - especially if you load it up with this kind of weight often.

 

[linuxgod]

How many miles are on your rig? It may be time for a simple spring upgrade - especially if you load it up with this kind of weight often.

He said 22,000, so nowhere near old enough for the springs to be worn.

Bottoming out is almost purely a function of weight/force unless the springs were worn. Uncontrolled sway might indicate something loose or worn and continual bouncing could be shocks, but the initial up/down motion into the bump stops is a function of spring rate and compression.

If you're curious how much weight you've got, a quick test is the measure the height of the wheel well empty and then loaded down. The LC comes with 170# springs (unless something changed 2016+) so if your rear wheel well decreased by 2" then the corresponding spring is carrying 340#.

As I said I had previously bottomed out going over those ~15-20mph speed bumps with 3 kids in the 2nd row (about 300#) and 4 bikes on a hitch-mounted bike carrier, so the OP's first example doesn't surprise me.

 

[TeCKis300]

While I don't have an LC with regular suspension, I have played with lots and lots of suspensions in my days.

If there is a concern for this bottoming out situation - provided that you are within carrying capacity or a reasonable load, the suspect component would be the shocks. Shocks have to play a balance between low speed ride quality and high speed dampening. Depending on how they are tuned, they would provide relatively little dampening at low speed and firm up substantially at high speeds. You may just happen to be hitting the obstacles at a speed where there is not enough shock stroke velocity that they are providing much compression resistance. And therefore it falls largely on the springs to mitigate full compression. The stock shocks are not adjustable, so you have to live with the compromise that is the stock tuning - which is usually tailored for comfort of a lightly loaded rig.

The others here already have given you some expectation of what the performance might be loaded. If you further suspect an issue, inspect the shocks for leaks as that is the telltale sign that something may be amiss.

Bags may be a bandaid as they help with increasing the spring rate. What you need is compression dampening to keep off the bump stops. Bags may just create a bouncier ride if the shocks are truly blown. Though if you truly are too high in weight, you may want aftermarket shocks too.

Here's a notional shock dyno. It's not specific to our vehicle, but you can see the relationship in dampening between shocks. More dampening may not always be better, it's a matter of tuning for the vehicle:

 

[SQRRRL]

I have a 2013. With 3 adult,3 children in car seats,Dog, XL cargo box on roof and last but not least a cargo carrier off the back. Bone stock. No issues what so ever. You may have a bad shock or it’s just time to replace them. Do some home work and It should be an easy fix.
No worries brah.
I do have a 2013 stock suspension with 30,000 easy miles if someone wants it.

 

[SQRRRL]

 

[linuxgod]

Not that anyone wants my old shocks but I do have a pair of rears with 60k miles on them that I'd give away to anyone willing to pay for shipping. If the OP or anyone else wants them they're yours. They will otherwise make their way to the garbage can when the weather warms up.

 

[NLScooby]

Not that anyone wants my old shocks but I do have a pair of rears with 60k miles on them that I'd give away to anyone willing to pay for shipping. If the OP or anyone else wants them they're yours. They will otherwise make their way to the garbage can when the weather warms up.

I also have a set of OME 2722 springs that were on for a few weeks if you tend to carry a bit of a load all off the time. This is a non-progressive spring. I'll be placing an ad in the classifieds shortly - but @linuxgod reminded I still have them in the box at home!

 

[kd5kuu]

Thanks everyone for your replies, this is really helpful to hear your experiences. You all have given me the info I needed. Seems like we have some folks who feel like what I've described is unusual, and some who have experienced similar things.

Ultimately, with fairly low-miles suspension components the question becomes "have the springs fatigued". Here's my thought process:

• When unloaded or with just my wife and two kids aboard (covers 95% of use cases), all is fine.
• Visual inspection of the rear suspension is normal.
  
• When unloaded and parked, the ride height is normal. There is about a 1.5" rake to the front, just like all other stock Land Cruisers.
• If the springs were weak then the static rear ride height would be compromised, and it is not.
• Per @TeCKis300 my bump stop hits are primarily in g-out situations, which are very low-speed compression where there is very little damping provided by the shocks.

With all of this in mind I believe that I have just been overloading it and/or the technical payload capacity does not imply that you wouldn't be hitting bump stops frequently when loaded to that capacity.

I have load carrying needs that range from zero payload to "lots" of payload and no conventional suspension could be expected to handle that wide range. I may reach out to @linuxgod for opinions on his airbag setup so that I can adjust my effective spring rate when carrying a heavy load.


That said, I'm due for service anyway so I'll get the dealer to look at it and see if they feel like throwing new springs in under warranty. Will report back if they find anything.

Thanks everyone!!!

 

[arich]

Sorry to everyone who says that this is NOT normal but it is. When we got the 2011 I could not believe how poorly it rode with 3 adults and 2 children in the back with a little bit of luggage. the highway dips were a killer, dips in a corner were downright dangerous.
Look back though my threads. I asked the same questions back in 2011. THEN went on a shock and spring spending rampage. 5 different sets, 8 changes dues to bad springs.
I'd say a quick fix would be air bags to supplement the weight but that's already been suggested. Next you could try a spring like Kings from Australia. They are stiffer but come in lower heights than OME. The softest OME spring the 2720s are going to give you several inches in the rear. (I have a set of Kings with Koni Raid shocks available. Wink)
The other alternative is to use Bilstein 4200s They're much stiffer than stock and will give you about a 1 inch raise in the rear and 2 in the front (front have an adjustable spring perch) This was the first set I tried when the wife was driven by my wife. She complained they were too stiff. I thought they were OK.
This is one of the things that as an owner of a new Land Cruiser. Factory suspension is a compromise and favors the soccer mom.

 

[TeCKis300]

I'll add that the same suspension tuning that favors soccer moms, is the very thing that makes the LC ride and articulate well in the rough (unladen).

Basically saying that suspension tuning for good off-road/articulation is generally in contrast to a load bearing suspension setup that you might see in trucks. More load handling requires more spring rate and dampening. But more spring rate would limit articulation when unladen. Bags would be a great adjustable way to deal with this compromise.

As an aside, AHC was created to deal with this dichotomy of use cases. It implements multiple spring rates, varying spring pre-load, and dynamic dampening, to be able to adapt and adjust to different scenarios.

 

[arich]

I agree with all that teckis300

Now that I've finally got my 200 dialed with the BP51s and 2720 springs I think its a great suspension for anyone except those that plan to run the Baja 1000. Sometimes when I load up the whole family with ALL their girl stuff for a weekend I wish I had 2722s but the shocks do an amazing job of controlling the big girl. If I do end up buying a 2016-18 the BP51s and the wheels and tires would be a must swap.
Anyone on the board is more than welcome to contact me and drive it before they commit to shocks. Westchester County NY.
There are a few member that have gone full 3.0 Icons and they love them but that's even more $$$.

 

[MJ24]

I'll add that the same suspension tuning that favors soccer moms, is the very thing that makes the LC ride and articulate well in the rough (unladen).

Basically saying that suspension tuning for good off-road/articulation is generally in contrast to a load bearing suspension setup that you might see in trucks. More load handling requires more spring rate and dampening. But more spring rate would limit articulation when unladen. Bags would be a great adjustable way to deal with this compromise.

As an aside, AHC was created to deal with this dichotomy of use cases. It implements multiple spring rates, varying spring pre-load, and dynamic dampening, to be able to adapt and adjust to different scenarios.

TK3 are you saying if you loaded down an AHC 570 the same way the OP's LC was loaded down the AHC would completely eliminate the issue being reported?