- Joined
- Sep 26, 2003
- Threads
- 117
- Messages
- 11,207
- Location
- Lancaster, Ohio, USA
- Website
- www.tlcperformance.com
Is a rebuilt 2f as good as "new"? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dmede808
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
hahaha.... this thread is entertaining for all the wrong reasons.
welda- i will provide a testimonial for you.
i have built two motors in the salt lake city area. machining was done on one at RPM, a local race shop that normally does 350s. they did a fine job as my mechanic had reported. there were some bolt placement issues that i had to solve afterwards that required replacing a gasket or two in the 40K mile range. not a problem.
the second motor is still being assembled in my garage. it was done by a promachine, the local shop that all the TOYOTA DEALERS SEND THEIR WARRANTY MOTOR WORK to for repairs. there are dozens of motors that I HAVE SEEN run that are owned by guys in my local club that promachine built. no issues.
sure, there have been a few that had issues, but most of those appeared to be bad valves FROM TOYOTA.
aside from the many mechanics on this board who can build a F/2F/3F, there are plenty of machine shops in the US that can do FINE motor builds. do you think GM builds those motors for NASCAR? what about ford? are they building them for the NASCAR crowd? there are plenty of quality builders out there. it is just a matter of finding them and knowing what you want.
i have seen/heard motors built by mark W, Jim C, Mudrak, Mark Algazy, Manafre, Specter, among others. they all run fine, if not better than a factory motor of similar mileage.
not a good place to say 'it cant be done.'
(jim, you get my dizzy yesterday? maybe you shouldnt rebuild it... it wont be as good as new!)
welda- i will provide a testimonial for you.
i have built two motors in the salt lake city area. machining was done on one at RPM, a local race shop that normally does 350s. they did a fine job as my mechanic had reported. there were some bolt placement issues that i had to solve afterwards that required replacing a gasket or two in the 40K mile range. not a problem.
the second motor is still being assembled in my garage. it was done by a promachine, the local shop that all the TOYOTA DEALERS SEND THEIR WARRANTY MOTOR WORK to for repairs. there are dozens of motors that I HAVE SEEN run that are owned by guys in my local club that promachine built. no issues.
sure, there have been a few that had issues, but most of those appeared to be bad valves FROM TOYOTA.
aside from the many mechanics on this board who can build a F/2F/3F, there are plenty of machine shops in the US that can do FINE motor builds. do you think GM builds those motors for NASCAR? what about ford? are they building them for the NASCAR crowd? there are plenty of quality builders out there. it is just a matter of finding them and knowing what you want.
i have seen/heard motors built by mark W, Jim C, Mudrak, Mark Algazy, Manafre, Specter, among others. they all run fine, if not better than a factory motor of similar mileage.
not a good place to say 'it cant be done.'
(jim, you get my dizzy yesterday? maybe you shouldnt rebuild it... it wont be as good as new!)
Last edited:
sigh.
i guess im having a hard time making my point. could you (stumpy) please read what i asked again:
>could you please submit one or two referrals from people whose motor has
>been rebuilt by you and have experienced no problems in like 150k miles? by
>that i mean it was put together correctly the first time, installed and never
>de/reinstalled, and never really had to be messed with except for normal
>maintenance issues?
i mean thats what a factory engine does pretty much without question, right? or at least 100k miles? i know for a fact that every japanese car i have bought new (and that would total about 4 of them now) went 100+k miles without doing anything except oil changes, 2 or so spark plug changes, some filters changed and maybe a timing belt if applicable, that is to say, following the factory maintenance schedule plus maybe a peripheral change like a water pump or something...and that includes my current 96 nissan 240sx with 140k on it and nothing beyond the above being done to it and it more or less runs the same as it did at 10k miles.
so not to put too fine a point on it but did either of the motors youre referring to meet that criteria? thats all im asking...can someone point me to someone who has had their motor rebuilt and has had the same success with it that one would expect from a factory motor?
and by the way a 100+k mile warranty that would be stood behind would be a good idea too. not that one would be forthcoming...i understand all the bit about user mainenance etc and that the factory doesnt offer anything like that (except...50k and more are becoming common on new cars i think) but that would be the ultimate testimonial to the ability to build a "better than new" motor and the willingness to stand behind that motor. but im admittedly dreaming now in part due to the stresses that we all put these vehicles under.
>it is just a matter of finding them
and thats what im trying to do.
someone said to "back it up" so im asking them to do the same thing. seems fair doesnt it?
>(jim, you get my dizzy yesterday? maybe you shouldnt rebuild it... it wont be
>as good as new!)
nice tactic...if you cant answer the question, make fun of the person asking it. btw its a fine point but i never said it wont be "as good as new"...i said it wont be better than new or something close to that. and i was referring to a complicated piece of machinery, a motor, not a mere distributor.
and mace with all due respect read my posts again. or even this statement you quoted:
>"personally i think it will NO WAY be "better than new"
note that word "personally"...it indicates opinion. is it confrontational to give an opinion? i dont think it is. i certainly read a lot of opinions here that i dont argue with even if i dont agree with them. this one happened to be one i didnt follow that guideline on but its because *if* there are people out there who can and do this as a matter of course i would like to know about them so i know where to take my work next time.
anyway i dont think theres any way im winning this one nor am i even able to make people see my point so i think im just going to leave it. if anyone has a personal testimonial that matches my questions above please pm me with it or with a link to it or with an email addy where i can talk to the person who has the motor (not necessarily the one who built it...i would like the testimonial from the customer) because im serious, i would like to find someone who can build a motor as good or better than factory for a reasonable price (ah maybe i didnt mention that but by that i mean roughly same as a new motor from the factory if such a beast exists) because i would seriously consider buying a certain fj40 if i thought i could get better than factory quality power in it.
many thanks again folks!
one love
jah bill
i guess im having a hard time making my point. could you (stumpy) please read what i asked again:
>could you please submit one or two referrals from people whose motor has
>been rebuilt by you and have experienced no problems in like 150k miles? by
>that i mean it was put together correctly the first time, installed and never
>de/reinstalled, and never really had to be messed with except for normal
>maintenance issues?
i mean thats what a factory engine does pretty much without question, right? or at least 100k miles? i know for a fact that every japanese car i have bought new (and that would total about 4 of them now) went 100+k miles without doing anything except oil changes, 2 or so spark plug changes, some filters changed and maybe a timing belt if applicable, that is to say, following the factory maintenance schedule plus maybe a peripheral change like a water pump or something...and that includes my current 96 nissan 240sx with 140k on it and nothing beyond the above being done to it and it more or less runs the same as it did at 10k miles.
so not to put too fine a point on it but did either of the motors youre referring to meet that criteria? thats all im asking...can someone point me to someone who has had their motor rebuilt and has had the same success with it that one would expect from a factory motor?
and by the way a 100+k mile warranty that would be stood behind would be a good idea too. not that one would be forthcoming...i understand all the bit about user mainenance etc and that the factory doesnt offer anything like that (except...50k and more are becoming common on new cars i think) but that would be the ultimate testimonial to the ability to build a "better than new" motor and the willingness to stand behind that motor. but im admittedly dreaming now in part due to the stresses that we all put these vehicles under.
>it is just a matter of finding them
and thats what im trying to do.
someone said to "back it up" so im asking them to do the same thing. seems fair doesnt it?
>(jim, you get my dizzy yesterday? maybe you shouldnt rebuild it... it wont be
>as good as new!)
nice tactic...if you cant answer the question, make fun of the person asking it. btw its a fine point but i never said it wont be "as good as new"...i said it wont be better than new or something close to that. and i was referring to a complicated piece of machinery, a motor, not a mere distributor.
and mace with all due respect read my posts again. or even this statement you quoted:
>"personally i think it will NO WAY be "better than new"
note that word "personally"...it indicates opinion. is it confrontational to give an opinion? i dont think it is. i certainly read a lot of opinions here that i dont argue with even if i dont agree with them. this one happened to be one i didnt follow that guideline on but its because *if* there are people out there who can and do this as a matter of course i would like to know about them so i know where to take my work next time.
anyway i dont think theres any way im winning this one nor am i even able to make people see my point so i think im just going to leave it. if anyone has a personal testimonial that matches my questions above please pm me with it or with a link to it or with an email addy where i can talk to the person who has the motor (not necessarily the one who built it...i would like the testimonial from the customer) because im serious, i would like to find someone who can build a motor as good or better than factory for a reasonable price (ah maybe i didnt mention that but by that i mean roughly same as a new motor from the factory if such a beast exists) because i would seriously consider buying a certain fj40 if i thought i could get better than factory quality power in it.
many thanks again folks!
one love
jah bill
Ok, I'm with JB Welda...I don't want to argue anymore. But just for clarification, are you professional rebuilders saying that you routinely build engines that will consistently turn well over 200k with no major problems? Actually, if it's "better than new," wouldn't it be fair to argue that you'd need to get 250 or 300k out of your rebuild without a major issue? Can you make that claim about your rebuilt 2Fs? If so, then my hat's off to you.
Peace, Brothers! We're All On This Bus Together.
If I said "personally, I think you are full of s***" would you take it personally?? That is basically what you are doing..
Again, I am not trying to start a war with you. I just want you to understand what you are saying.
I have a F in my 72 that was rebuilt by me in 89 and has well over 100K on it. it runs as good as it did in 89 and probably at least as good as it did in 72 when it was built (well, sort of, the carb has gone sour from lack of use, I have too many other toys to keep it fully functional). And, I am a hack... There are others in the community (lots of them mentioned in this thread) that are significantly more knowledgeable and skilled than I.
Honestly, I want to hear people that they have rebuilt motors for. I want to hear the testimonials.. I would love to have more ammo against people that seem to believe that Toyota built the perfect motor from the factory..
Please, any proof that a rebuilt motor can last more than 150K be posted here.
The warranty thing is is a mute point. If you paid to replace all components in a motor it might be possible. But honestly, did Toyota have a 100K warranty on their motors??
Again, if you want proof, please be prepared to retort..
Mace
Well, I have only cobbled together an and a couple of 2f's so I am no expert. I would say out of the many motors i have torn apart it seems like the factory lets stuff slip by now and then, camshafts with worn out lobes, less than optimum lubrication systems (exacerbated by poor maintenance) and exhaust gaskets failing prematurely. I have been very impressed by the durability of the factory blocks holding the hone marks up to 200k and having the bearings within spec's on somewhat maintained motor. A 2f that is balanced, allowed to breath better, equipped with fresh and tuned accessories and maybe hopped up a notch should be able to outlast and outperform a factory motor in the right hands.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2003
- Threads
- 117
- Messages
- 11,207
- Location
- Lancaster, Ohio, USA
- Website
- www.tlcperformance.com
OK, one more time:
OE ring quality: chrome/iron
TLC Ring quality: moly/chrome (from Hastings, the supplier of rings for the secret warranty for premature ring failure on 75-77 2F)
OE balance spec: Within a few ounces on the crank, within a few ounces on a set of rods
TLC balance specs: within a few grams on crank, flywheel, rod set, pistons
OE pistons: ART japan
TLC Pistons: ART japan
OE cam: non-existant surface hardening, early cams are pressed dissy gear
TLC cam: USA billet, phosphate/moly breakin coating, deeper hardening, machined dissy gear
OE bearings: clevite japan
TLC bearings: clevite japan
OE manifold gasket: foil
TLC manifold gasket: fel-pro graphlex
OE head gasket: updated to Felpro graphlex w/ steel leaf spring inserts between cylinders
TLC head gasket: Felpro graphlex w/ steel leaf spring inserts between cylinders
OE valves: cast iron
TLC valves: swirl polished stainless
OE stem seals: rubber
TLC stem seals: silicon
OE cam gear: rubber insert
TLC cam gear: all steel from japan OEM
etc....
The idea is to keep the goodness of the Cruiser engine, while addressing the (now well known) weaknesses of the OEM version.
I would like that also, but it takes a loooong time to put 250K on a Cruiser.
I'll let you know how long it lasts when the first one dies.
I've got one of Jim's motors, but I've only had a chance to put about 2500 miles on it so far. I can vouch that it will last at least that long . If you can wait 10 or 15 years, I'll be happy to let you know how it holds up.
On the performance side of things, this one is hands down better than stock. Much better bottom end power, and MUCH more top end power. While the old seemed to peter out around 3000 rpms, the new is just waking up around 2500 and pulls to redline (and beyond I'm sure). I can now merge with interstate traffic instead of being the slow guy holding everybody up. It pulls hard all the way to 80 (truck shakes above that), and will cruise all day at 75 (5spd).
Don't let me mislead you... if you want a V8 or turbo-diesel power, you don't need to waste your time here. But, if you want to keep your 2F, a quality rebuild can make a world of difference.
. If you can wait 10 or 15 years, I'll be happy to let you know how it holds up. On the performance side of things, this one is hands down better than stock. Much better bottom end power, and MUCH more top end power. While the old seemed to peter out around 3000 rpms, the new is just waking up around 2500 and pulls to redline (and beyond I'm sure). I can now merge with interstate traffic instead of being the slow guy holding everybody up. It pulls hard all the way to 80 (truck shakes above that), and will cruise all day at 75 (5spd).
Don't let me mislead you... if you want a V8 or turbo-diesel power, you don't need to waste your time here. But, if you want to keep your 2F, a quality rebuild can make a world of difference.
Mark W
Yep, it's true. I just don't care that much.
I've got to pretty much echo Jim's post. However, I balance my pistons and rods to a single gram, and I bet that Jim actually does too.
A few things that Jim didn't mention, but several of which I'd wager he does as well:
Replacing the failure prone pressed in oil bore plug in 2 and 3F heads with a threaded plug.... Loctiting the main and rid bearing cap bolts and the flywheel bolts... Tri-angle valve job... Raising the compression to increase power and efficiency... Using oversize rings, hand gapped to optimum fit... Internal clearancing of oil pump for increased flow and raised relief valve setting... Improved oil galley plugs/modern chemical sealents to ensure no leaks that these point... I sometimes upgrade to GM valves (stronger stems, slightly larger diameter).
These are just a handful of definitive improvements over the factory build that come to mind as I sit here. Probably forgetting at least a few... When you do them all the time they quit standing out.
And again the fact that each engine gets careful and meticulous attention, beyond what the factory chooses to do.
And this is a standard build. A performance build gets things like upgraded cam profile, stronger rod bolts, higher flow exhaust and intake and things of that nature. Further increased oil flow and restricted flow to the rocker arms to boost the percentage that stays in the bearings. Stronger valves springs in some cases. Or whatever the customer chooses to have done (remember part of the advantage of a quality rebuilt engine is that it is done the way the customer wants it).
You really can not argue that this is not all improvement over the factory engine. Unless you are just trying to insult us or call us liars, there is no way that you can claim that a mass produced motor has higher attention to detail than a power plant that a skilled craftsman builds one at a time.
To set longevity as the only standard which determines whether an engine is superior is setting forth a false premise. But even if we accept that position, I'll take that challenge. But like Jim says, you have to wait for a while. It takes a long time to put that kind of mileage on an engine. I'll pass your name along to all of my customers and tell them to drop you a line when they get there. I doubt they will waste their time, and I don't really care if they do or not. I and others here have tried to explain the facts to you. You obviously are not looking to learn and have made up your mind.
I stand by my invitation... You say that that an engine built by other than the factory has to be inferior. Back it up.
Or don't. I don't really care on this count either. I know the truth and the facts on this subject and those who matter do too.
Mark...
A few things that Jim didn't mention, but several of which I'd wager he does as well:
Replacing the failure prone pressed in oil bore plug in 2 and 3F heads with a threaded plug.... Loctiting the main and rid bearing cap bolts and the flywheel bolts... Tri-angle valve job... Raising the compression to increase power and efficiency... Using oversize rings, hand gapped to optimum fit... Internal clearancing of oil pump for increased flow and raised relief valve setting... Improved oil galley plugs/modern chemical sealents to ensure no leaks that these point... I sometimes upgrade to GM valves (stronger stems, slightly larger diameter).
These are just a handful of definitive improvements over the factory build that come to mind as I sit here. Probably forgetting at least a few... When you do them all the time they quit standing out.
And again the fact that each engine gets careful and meticulous attention, beyond what the factory chooses to do.
And this is a standard build. A performance build gets things like upgraded cam profile, stronger rod bolts, higher flow exhaust and intake and things of that nature. Further increased oil flow and restricted flow to the rocker arms to boost the percentage that stays in the bearings. Stronger valves springs in some cases. Or whatever the customer chooses to have done (remember part of the advantage of a quality rebuilt engine is that it is done the way the customer wants it).
You really can not argue that this is not all improvement over the factory engine. Unless you are just trying to insult us or call us liars, there is no way that you can claim that a mass produced motor has higher attention to detail than a power plant that a skilled craftsman builds one at a time.
To set longevity as the only standard which determines whether an engine is superior is setting forth a false premise. But even if we accept that position, I'll take that challenge. But like Jim says, you have to wait for a while. It takes a long time to put that kind of mileage on an engine. I'll pass your name along to all of my customers and tell them to drop you a line when they get there. I doubt they will waste their time, and I don't really care if they do or not. I and others here have tried to explain the facts to you. You obviously are not looking to learn and have made up your mind.
I stand by my invitation... You say that that an engine built by other than the factory has to be inferior. Back it up.
Or don't. I don't really care on this count either. I know the truth and the facts on this subject and those who matter do too.
Mark...
LOL. Like Toyota never have recalls on a vehicles, builds badly designed heads for some motors and has faulty crankshafts and bad bearings in others, Please get real. Many after market bearings, rings and pistons, gaskets, headbolts& bearing cap bolts, clutches, etc etc are superior to Toyota original equipment. cheers
welda, if you arent at least interested in hearing that a rebuild with 45K miles on it pulls hard and strong with no problems, you are going to have to give me a PM in 10 years when i have 150K plus miles on the motor. if you can get the motor past break in and, from what i have heard from machinists, past the 20K mark with no issues, it is very likely that the motor will behave at least as well as a factory motor with the same matinence.
but your insisting on not hearing from people with, obviously, more relevant experience than yours should have told me i should have kept my hands off my keyboard.
most of us, myself included, have said truly stupid things on various cruiser forums. mostly this has been from ignorance or misinformation. at some point, it is wise to accept that there are others out there with more wisdom than your own who would be best heeded.
you are going to have a hard time finding someone with a rebuild with 150K on it. considering my F block had 400K miles on it when i pulled it, most people who are rebuilding these motors are probably still getting plenty of miles out of the original build. those who dont often put in 350s.
you have. you might be wise to just accept it and begin learning from them rather than pissing on thier collective faces...
funny, have you looked at the guts of a '81-'87 distributor? they are probably as complex as a 2F short block.
A couple of data points.
I have a 3FE that's been rebuilt and easily has > 100k and probably closer to 150k on it. I don't have the Cruiser at hand or I could check. The engine is running strong, uses only a minimal amount of oil between changes, and I expect that I will reach 200k on it before any major work needs to be done. Machine work on the engine was done by a local shop who had never worked on an F series, but these guys were familiar with straight sixes from other brands. For the machine work that they did I dropped off the head and block and my FSM, and later picked up a rebuilt head and a block with the bearings, cam, pistons, and crank installed. I did the rest.
I have gone back to this shop twice since and have had two 2F's rebuilt by them, one has less than 5k miles but the other now has about 80k on it. If a shop that has little experience with the F series engines can build an engine that will last > 100k miles then I have no doubt that the Cruiser pros, who are intimately familiar with the strengths and weaknesess of the F series, can build an engine which can easily reach and exceed that mark.
I have a 3FE that's been rebuilt and easily has > 100k and probably closer to 150k on it. I don't have the Cruiser at hand or I could check. The engine is running strong, uses only a minimal amount of oil between changes, and I expect that I will reach 200k on it before any major work needs to be done. Machine work on the engine was done by a local shop who had never worked on an F series, but these guys were familiar with straight sixes from other brands. For the machine work that they did I dropped off the head and block and my FSM, and later picked up a rebuilt head and a block with the bearings, cam, pistons, and crank installed. I did the rest.
I have gone back to this shop twice since and have had two 2F's rebuilt by them, one has less than 5k miles but the other now has about 80k on it. If a shop that has little experience with the F series engines can build an engine that will last > 100k miles then I have no doubt that the Cruiser pros, who are intimately familiar with the strengths and weaknesess of the F series, can build an engine which can easily reach and exceed that mark.
>The idea is to keep the goodness of the Cruiser engine, while addressing the
>(now well known) weaknesses of the OEM version.
that makes sense. this jim guy sounds like he knows what hes doing and i think i could trust that.
same with mark, until...
>I and others here have tried to explain the facts to you. You obviously are not
>looking to learn and have made up your mind.
and this is the defensive behaviour i was alluding to up there last week. but you seem to talk a good motor so i would accept that at face value...you just dont have to get defensive and start telling me stuff that you really dont know, like that ive made up my mind or that im not trying to learn just because i ask you to back up what you say. because...if you care...thats exactly how mechanics get when you question how they are doing things out of curiousity or just so you know what went into the motor they are building for you. or when you bring it back to them for a problem solution.
>I know the truth and the facts on this subject and those who matter do too.
"those who matter..." i hope you mean those who pay you money to build their motors. and, i would add, those who *might* pay you to build their motor. i would potentially fall into that second category.
anyway i think i see the point, that point being that given the time and the interest, the stock motor can be rebuilt better than new. but i guess thats what i was getting at: are there mechanics out there, getting paid by the job, who will take the time and care to do a good job or do they all just kind of talk a lot but when it comes down to it just throw your motor together?
see i believe in the adage that those who buy cheap buy often. and often it works out that even if you make it plain you want it done right, and get charged to do it right, you often end up with something thats not right.
anyway thanks for your time gentlemen and i didnt mean to insult anyone nor did i mean to act like i wasnt listening. i have various experiences from 56 years on this planet. as for those who just want to laugh...go ahead, laughter is good for you.
right offhand i wish i was in lancaster ohio (well, maybe) because i would like to talk to jim in person because i think i could trust him to do a good job and i just might want that 40 done by him. it helps that he didnt get defensive but just laid out the facts to be judged and in my case that shows me a lot. im not an idiot and im not trying to be a jerk, i just wanted to know the logic that some of the statements were based on.
wheres that beer mug smiley?
one love
jah bill
>(now well known) weaknesses of the OEM version.
that makes sense. this jim guy sounds like he knows what hes doing and i think i could trust that.
same with mark, until...
>I and others here have tried to explain the facts to you. You obviously are not
>looking to learn and have made up your mind.
and this is the defensive behaviour i was alluding to up there last week. but you seem to talk a good motor so i would accept that at face value...you just dont have to get defensive and start telling me stuff that you really dont know, like that ive made up my mind or that im not trying to learn just because i ask you to back up what you say. because...if you care...thats exactly how mechanics get when you question how they are doing things out of curiousity or just so you know what went into the motor they are building for you. or when you bring it back to them for a problem solution.
>I know the truth and the facts on this subject and those who matter do too.
"those who matter..." i hope you mean those who pay you money to build their motors. and, i would add, those who *might* pay you to build their motor. i would potentially fall into that second category.
anyway i think i see the point, that point being that given the time and the interest, the stock motor can be rebuilt better than new. but i guess thats what i was getting at: are there mechanics out there, getting paid by the job, who will take the time and care to do a good job or do they all just kind of talk a lot but when it comes down to it just throw your motor together?
see i believe in the adage that those who buy cheap buy often. and often it works out that even if you make it plain you want it done right, and get charged to do it right, you often end up with something thats not right.
anyway thanks for your time gentlemen and i didnt mean to insult anyone nor did i mean to act like i wasnt listening. i have various experiences from 56 years on this planet. as for those who just want to laugh...go ahead, laughter is good for you.
right offhand i wish i was in lancaster ohio (well, maybe) because i would like to talk to jim in person because i think i could trust him to do a good job and i just might want that 40 done by him. it helps that he didnt get defensive but just laid out the facts to be judged and in my case that shows me a lot. im not an idiot and im not trying to be a jerk, i just wanted to know the logic that some of the statements were based on.
wheres that beer mug smiley?
one love
jah bill
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Back to the original poster about Mudrak...aka Gary Kardum. I would trust any motor built by him no questions asked. He's worked on my trucks and practically eveyone's truck I know with a Land Cruiser. I don't know of a single complaint with the work he does. He has even patiently answered my questions even when I've been doing the work myself. First class individual, he is.
There are few true experts in the Land Cruiser world, but Gary is one of them. If he's going to rebuild your motor, do it with confidence. Just be patient, since a lot of other people trust him too!
This is a good discussion, though! I too, have always considered a good rebuild to be better than factory. I have heard that the early 2Fs in particular are fare better when well balanced. That alone would be worth it to me.
JB-come by some time and let's talk Cruisers. I'd love to see your FJ55. I'll trade you a good running factory 2f (I have 2 of them) for a fresh Mudrak rebuild ANYTIME! Same goes for an FJ40Jim rebuild, or a Mark W. rebuild as well.
There are few true experts in the Land Cruiser world, but Gary is one of them. If he's going to rebuild your motor, do it with confidence. Just be patient, since a lot of other people trust him too!
This is a good discussion, though! I too, have always considered a good rebuild to be better than factory. I have heard that the early 2Fs in particular are fare better when well balanced. That alone would be worth it to me.
JB-come by some time and let's talk Cruisers. I'd love to see your FJ55. I'll trade you a good running factory 2f (I have 2 of them) for a fresh Mudrak rebuild ANYTIME! Same goes for an FJ40Jim rebuild, or a Mark W. rebuild as well.
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Threads
- 31
- Messages
- 137
- Location
- Kittery Point, Maine
- Website
- www.jewettfarms.com
Mark & Jim-
Very nice explanations.
I can't see how anyone could argue with what you're saying.
Very logical approaches.
Very nice explanations.
I can't see how anyone could argue with what you're saying.
Very logical approaches.
Dude, you have no idea how off base you are. To argue with the likes of Mark W. and Jim C., and question the ability of Gary K. is just plain silly.
I have a rebuilt engine in my 4Runner. Is it an F engine? No, but a lowly 22RE built by one of three trusted companies that build such engines, none of them listed above. This engine now has about 50-60K on it and I can say it runs better than when I bought the truck with the original engine almost 20 years ago. It's balanced, heads polished & cc'd, better cam, and has steel chain guides instead of the plastic junk (!) Toyota used.
There is no doubt that technology improves with time. An engine originally built in 1969 can be significantly improved upon in 2007. Better ring, gasket, and bearing materials exist now that didn't exist before. Technology allows for better hardening processes on cranks, camshafts, bolts, etc. Balancing not only allows for more power due to an improvement in efficiency, but leads to engine longevity too. And, a custom engine builder can pull all this together. You are foolish to ignore this.
I currently have a 3FE stroker sitting on the garage floor that I'm dying to get installed. It was built by the same guy that built my 22RE and I have no hesitation that this engine will easily go past the 200K mile mark, and give better overall performance getting there.
Last edited:
I'll toss in my rebuilt 2F experience. I bought an '84 FJ60 from a friend. When he bought the truck he had reciepts from one of the PO's for a stock motor rebuild. Seems around 89K miles the stock motor failed (oil galley plug in the head as mentioned by Mark W. assumed to be the failure, several other Cruiser motors in the area had failed for the same reason). He bought it with close to 180K miles. I bought it with close to 230K miles. Ran better than almost any Cruiser either of us had ever driven.
Since I've owned it the head gasket failed cracking the head too. But I blame a fair bit of that on the coolant leak I didn't notice until after the damage was done. The rest of it I blame on the original rebuild shop that didn't put the head alignment dowel tubes back in when rebuilt. But then the motor got 140+K miles on the rebuilt and woulda been fine if I had fixed the coolant leak before the motor overheated. I swapped another head on a drove it some more before it blew the head gasket again a year later. Still working on the repairs for this one. Jim C. is offering guidence (and is getting paid to rebuild the 3FE head to his updated specs) on this round of repairs so hopefully I don't hafta do it again for many years.
In short, the rebuilt motor (not done by a Cruiser specialist either) lasted longer than the OEM assembled motor. I'm betting that once I get the head sorted and back on the shortblock it'll go for many many miles into the future. If I had the coin Jim C. would be building me a motor but since I don't I'll at least follow his advice while redoing stuff for myself.
Nick
Since I've owned it the head gasket failed cracking the head too. But I blame a fair bit of that on the coolant leak I didn't notice until after the damage was done. The rest of it I blame on the original rebuild shop that didn't put the head alignment dowel tubes back in when rebuilt. But then the motor got 140+K miles on the rebuilt and woulda been fine if I had fixed the coolant leak before the motor overheated. I swapped another head on a drove it some more before it blew the head gasket again a year later. Still working on the repairs for this one. Jim C. is offering guidence (and is getting paid to rebuild the 3FE head to his updated specs) on this round of repairs so hopefully I don't hafta do it again for many years.
In short, the rebuilt motor (not done by a Cruiser specialist either) lasted longer than the OEM assembled motor. I'm betting that once I get the head sorted and back on the shortblock it'll go for many many miles into the future. If I had the coin Jim C. would be building me a motor but since I don't I'll at least follow his advice while redoing stuff for myself.
Nick
