Installing SS Braided Brake lines, Flare nut stuck in pipe!
- Thread starter 2001LC
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2001LC
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- Thread starter
- #22
LEAK.. yikes.. that would be ticky on the trail!
So I got under there with two vise grips, which gave me more control. By pulling very hard as I twisted I pulled it off. Like I thought, the flare nut lip had rolled. No doubt from being over torquing at the factory. Funny I can't find a torque spec, in any FSM hard cory or TIS for these brake hose to pipe flare connection. I only find pipe flare to master spec of 11ft-lbf.
Flare nut end was rolled (enlarge) and hung up in female end, it also was cracked. The male flare nut, deposited metal into threads of female end. So I cut off tip and re-flared the pipe with a new flare nut in place.
I didn't like the looks of my first flare so cut off and did a second. Any more cut off and I'd not gotten flare tool on, due to bend.
New SS braided brake hose installed with aftermarket flare nut.
After I've bleed and confirmed no leaks, I'll paint pipe and grease to protect from rusting where I damage paint.
So I got under there with two vise grips, which gave me more control. By pulling very hard as I twisted I pulled it off. Like I thought, the flare nut lip had rolled. No doubt from being over torquing at the factory. Funny I can't find a torque spec, in any FSM hard cory or TIS for these brake hose to pipe flare connection. I only find pipe flare to master spec of 11ft-lbf.
Flare nut end was rolled (enlarge) and hung up in female end, it also was cracked. The male flare nut, deposited metal into threads of female end. So I cut off tip and re-flared the pipe with a new flare nut in place.
I didn't like the looks of my first flare so cut off and did a second. Any more cut off and I'd not gotten flare tool on, due to bend.
New SS braided brake hose installed with aftermarket flare nut.
After I've bleed and confirmed no leaks, I'll paint pipe and grease to protect from rusting where I damage paint.
Last edited:
Was going to go through the entire brake system including adding braided lines in July, a week before heading out on a big trip to Ouray-Moab-North Rim. After seeing this I think I'll try and make time to tackle it earlier in case of little hang ups like this.
2001LC
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #25
Good idea.
But, it only took a few extra hours "so far"! Had I been prepared for what I found, I could have done even faster. One thing; The flare nut has metric threads, but a SAE head for the wrench. Had I more time, I would have located a fully metric flare nut and a metric flare kit.
Also I would have just used Slee Off Road's SS brake line set. But had Amazon credit to work off. Slee has a six piece set. So I wouldn't not have had to had need to have the two custom rear uppers made. But it did workout for me, as I picked up the flare nut from custom builder's shop.
I didn't trace line to see what it would take to R&R pipe front to back. But surely it would take longer, just getting pipe would take days.
But, it only took a few extra hours "so far"! Had I been prepared for what I found, I could have done even faster. One thing; The flare nut has metric threads, but a SAE head for the wrench. Had I more time, I would have located a fully metric flare nut and a metric flare kit.
Also I would have just used Slee Off Road's SS brake line set. But had Amazon credit to work off. Slee has a six piece set. So I wouldn't not have had to had need to have the two custom rear uppers made. But it did workout for me, as I picked up the flare nut from custom builder's shop.
I didn't trace line to see what it would take to R&R pipe front to back. But surely it would take longer, just getting pipe would take days.
Last edited:
2001LC
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #26
So I finished installing all new flexible SS braided brake lines. So far so good with custom built lines, my new flare and flare nut.
I did fine one more flare nut, at RF wheel, which flare nut was slightly over torqued. This mushroomed out the flare nut inner tip enough to cause to hang-up in female fitting. Luckily it was not cracked or out of round like the upper RH rear. So I used some emery cloth to work "mushroom" down a bit, which aids so it doesn't hang-up while trying to install into female fitting. I made sure each flare and nut was in good condition and clean. I also cleaned and oiled (brake fluid) the threads, pipe passing through flare nut and tip of flares. Then fitting and threading together by hand until sung, only using wrenches to torqued down.
Can't say same for StopTech Flexible SS braided brake lines. These lines had some features that at first appeared nice, but aren't:
LEAK
StopTech 4 piece SS brake lines set leak.
1) The female fitting end spins & swivels even after fits/locks snugly into our factory fitting hanger. This makes install easy as female end is held in place just like factory, while only a 10mm wrench is need to tight the flare nut. The SS line spins freely with the female end until flare nut is torqued. This allow for easy setting brake line in a relaxed state to as to/from the caliber connection. The inner tip that butts to the hard line flare to make the seal, is coated with something that I assume is to aid in sealing to the flare.
A) Here's the bad, why I feel them difficult to install without leaking.
The female not being fixed, makes alignment to hard line flare varring as they butt due to swivelling within the fitting. If that aligment isn't dead-on as they butt together they leak. The coating they add to the tip (inner male end of flare inside fitting) is cut once seated. For this reason, if loosen again they will not seal a second time. Loosen also leaves this now free up coating in the brake line, as solid containment now headed to caliper.
Out of the four Stoptech brake lines, I had one leaking on first install. I spend hours inspecting, cleaning, resetting, photographing giving it my best, but could not stop the leak. Even had StopTech support on the phone. They advised returning for new set, that sometimes lines during manufacture just don't get a good flare tip.
One line that was not leaking, I need to loosen an spin 180 degrees to get line to relax it upto caliper. My fault for torquing flare nut before attaching banjo to caliper in a relaxed state. Once I loosen that line, it started leaking. I spend hours on it cleaning, inspecting photographing reworking. Gave it my best, but now this was number two leak I could not stop.
The package includes new union bolt with seals. Union bolt has a hole for brake fluid to travel through, that is much larger that factory? They also give very stout bleeder caps, very nice. Lines come coated with a clear plastic and with boots at ends. Boots, although look good may end-up holding moisture.
I decided not to take up Stoptech on there offer to replace the set. I drove over to Slee Off Road and bought there full 6 piece set.
Slee Off Road flexible SS braided brake lines. No leaks on first try, even after loosening and retorquing a flare nut.
1) Removing the Stoptech and installing just the four out the six lines Slee gives in their Kit, took two hours. No leaks first time.
I also had one line I didn't get set in a relaxed position. So I needed to loosen flare nut after torquing and reset, no leaks no problems. It happen to be the same spot as I had to reset the Stoptech line that did leak after reseting.
A) The SS brake lines Slee sells is all 6 of flexible lines needed to do complet job. The flare tip is a solid connection to female fitting. So alignment is the same every time on the hard pipe flare. They don't lock into factory hanger, but spin freely with them. This means a second wrench (17mm) is need to hold the female as flare nut (male end) is torqued. But since not equipped with with a keep nut, it can be spun 360 degrees to set line in relaxed position.
They also supply a washer that must be used between 17mm nut and factory hanger. They give us a new retaining clip that is very beefy. They also give new seals (washers) for union bolt of banjo to caliper connection. Also sach line is tag for location.
Notes:
The front calipers not only have secure horns but a hole for pins that only come on factory brake lines banjos only.
Neither set's banjo fit into caliper holder horns. Nore do either have the retaining pin in front banjo that caliper has a receptor hole for locking position in.
The factory front lines also have a fixed securing point that secruce to knuckle. The factory's will not allow for line movement between knuckle and caliper. This keeps moment of front suspension form putting any pressure or allowing any moment on caliper to banjo connection. While it also allows the upper half of line to constantly flexing between where it connect into holder on frame to the securing point on knuckle.
I do not like that both aftermarket sets allow brake line to freely slide within the knuckle securing point. It allows for easy install to get a relaxed line, and no doubt makes manufacture simpler, as they don't need to fix angle to banjo. But factory are so much more secure on caliper to begin with, and the fixed secure point will keep any pressure from up and down movement of suppenssion from ever getting to banjo connection. For this reason one must pay special attention during each 5K PM that union bolt is torqued to spec of 22ft-lbf IMHO.
The StopTech knuckle securing point is made of metal with a rubber cushion/slip the line passes through. The factory nut holding it on can be torqued to factory spec of 21ft-lbf.
The Slee's knuckle securing point is made of plastic, and factory bolt CAN NOT torqued to factory spec, so a thread seal must be used.
I will be speaking to Slee:
IMO: Both need to use a securing point that is fixed or lockable for safety at knuckle IMHO. The factory torque of 22ft-lbf should hold the banjo to caliper securely. BUT, the factory had it's reasons to use three different method of aligning, fixing and keeping movement of suspension from putting any pressure on banjo. These aftermarkets need at least the one they can do, which is securing the line so it does can not move through knuckle securing point.
I did fine one more flare nut, at RF wheel, which flare nut was slightly over torqued. This mushroomed out the flare nut inner tip enough to cause to hang-up in female fitting. Luckily it was not cracked or out of round like the upper RH rear. So I used some emery cloth to work "mushroom" down a bit, which aids so it doesn't hang-up while trying to install into female fitting. I made sure each flare and nut was in good condition and clean. I also cleaned and oiled (brake fluid) the threads, pipe passing through flare nut and tip of flares. Then fitting and threading together by hand until sung, only using wrenches to torqued down.
Can't say same for StopTech Flexible SS braided brake lines. These lines had some features that at first appeared nice, but aren't:
LEAK
StopTech 4 piece SS brake lines set leak.
1) The female fitting end spins & swivels even after fits/locks snugly into our factory fitting hanger. This makes install easy as female end is held in place just like factory, while only a 10mm wrench is need to tight the flare nut. The SS line spins freely with the female end until flare nut is torqued. This allow for easy setting brake line in a relaxed state to as to/from the caliber connection. The inner tip that butts to the hard line flare to make the seal, is coated with something that I assume is to aid in sealing to the flare.
A) Here's the bad, why I feel them difficult to install without leaking.
The female not being fixed, makes alignment to hard line flare varring as they butt due to swivelling within the fitting. If that aligment isn't dead-on as they butt together they leak. The coating they add to the tip (inner male end of flare inside fitting) is cut once seated. For this reason, if loosen again they will not seal a second time. Loosen also leaves this now free up coating in the brake line, as solid containment now headed to caliper.
Out of the four Stoptech brake lines, I had one leaking on first install. I spend hours inspecting, cleaning, resetting, photographing giving it my best, but could not stop the leak. Even had StopTech support on the phone. They advised returning for new set, that sometimes lines during manufacture just don't get a good flare tip.
One line that was not leaking, I need to loosen an spin 180 degrees to get line to relax it upto caliper. My fault for torquing flare nut before attaching banjo to caliper in a relaxed state. Once I loosen that line, it started leaking. I spend hours on it cleaning, inspecting photographing reworking. Gave it my best, but now this was number two leak I could not stop.
The package includes new union bolt with seals. Union bolt has a hole for brake fluid to travel through, that is much larger that factory? They also give very stout bleeder caps, very nice. Lines come coated with a clear plastic and with boots at ends. Boots, although look good may end-up holding moisture.
I decided not to take up Stoptech on there offer to replace the set. I drove over to Slee Off Road and bought there full 6 piece set.
Slee Off Road flexible SS braided brake lines. No leaks on first try, even after loosening and retorquing a flare nut. 1) Removing the Stoptech and installing just the four out the six lines Slee gives in their Kit, took two hours. No leaks first time.
I also had one line I didn't get set in a relaxed position. So I needed to loosen flare nut after torquing and reset, no leaks no problems. It happen to be the same spot as I had to reset the Stoptech line that did leak after reseting.
A) The SS brake lines Slee sells is all 6 of flexible lines needed to do complet job. The flare tip is a solid connection to female fitting. So alignment is the same every time on the hard pipe flare. They don't lock into factory hanger, but spin freely with them. This means a second wrench (17mm) is need to hold the female as flare nut (male end) is torqued. But since not equipped with with a keep nut, it can be spun 360 degrees to set line in relaxed position.
They also supply a washer that must be used between 17mm nut and factory hanger. They give us a new retaining clip that is very beefy. They also give new seals (washers) for union bolt of banjo to caliper connection. Also sach line is tag for location.
Notes:
The front calipers not only have secure horns but a hole for pins that only come on factory brake lines banjos only.
Neither set's banjo fit into caliper holder horns. Nore do either have the retaining pin in front banjo that caliper has a receptor hole for locking position in.
The factory front lines also have a fixed securing point that secruce to knuckle. The factory's will not allow for line movement between knuckle and caliper. This keeps moment of front suspension form putting any pressure or allowing any moment on caliper to banjo connection. While it also allows the upper half of line to constantly flexing between where it connect into holder on frame to the securing point on knuckle.
I do not like that both aftermarket sets allow brake line to freely slide within the knuckle securing point. It allows for easy install to get a relaxed line, and no doubt makes manufacture simpler, as they don't need to fix angle to banjo. But factory are so much more secure on caliper to begin with, and the fixed secure point will keep any pressure from up and down movement of suppenssion from ever getting to banjo connection. For this reason one must pay special attention during each 5K PM that union bolt is torqued to spec of 22ft-lbf IMHO.The StopTech knuckle securing point is made of metal with a rubber cushion/slip the line passes through. The factory nut holding it on can be torqued to factory spec of 21ft-lbf.
The Slee's knuckle securing point is made of plastic, and factory bolt CAN NOT torqued to factory spec, so a thread seal must be used.
I will be speaking to Slee:
IMO: Both need to use a securing point that is fixed or lockable for safety at knuckle IMHO. The factory torque of 22ft-lbf should hold the banjo to caliper securely. BUT, the factory had it's reasons to use three different method of aligning, fixing and keeping movement of suspension from putting any pressure on banjo. These aftermarkets need at least the one they can do, which is securing the line so it does can not move through knuckle securing point.
I've been researching brake lines because I had heard that all the commonly available aftermarket lines did not match oem. I found these that say they have oem fittings. LandCruiser 100 Series - Braided Brake Lines Full Set Pretty pricey and I'd want a pic of the actual product to confirm but it has my interest.
I found these as well poking around an Aussie site. Landcruiser UZJ100R GXL, SAHARA (ABS) Lexus LX470 (2 Inch Lift) - SAFEBRAKE | eBay
They appear to be a very good match.
They appear to be a very good match.
I have not but I think I'll give them a go and see whats what. They do have an actual website as well https://safebrake.biz and it says they are ADR compliant which is their version of our D.O.T. .
trdcorolla
SILVER Star
2001LC
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #36
Yes I purchase Safebrake SS, and have on the shelf for whomever needs them. I've not installed them.
The fact they are only (other than custom build locally) ones I know of available that the flexible line locks on front knuckle and banjo locks into caliper horns/stays like OEM, YES I would pick these over others i've seen or installed.
What I don't know is if they mate up to flared of the hard pipe perfectly. I was looking at today and comparing with Slee's SS. The inner nipple looks the same, so they should mate as well to hard pipe flare as the Slees did for me. They also have same fitting as OEM, for brackets to seat in on our vehicles, another plus.
IMHO they fact they "lock in" like OEM is a big safety factory. Ones that don't lock in are concerning. I told this to buyer of The Unicorn, so it's up to him now whether to keep the Slee's or switch up to these or back to OEMs.
I will say this. Slees braid SS brake lines have been installing on many rig for sometime now AFASIK. They have much more experience then I. I've not heard of any See's loosen on their own (which is my concern with all non locking), but I wouldn't really hear anything as offroad is not in my daily dealings where they get the most use.
The fact they are only (other than custom build locally) ones I know of available that the flexible line locks on front knuckle and banjo locks into caliper horns/stays like OEM, YES I would pick these over others i've seen or installed.
What I don't know is if they mate up to flared of the hard pipe perfectly. I was looking at today and comparing with Slee's SS. The inner nipple looks the same, so they should mate as well to hard pipe flare as the Slees did for me. They also have same fitting as OEM, for brackets to seat in on our vehicles, another plus.
IMHO they fact they "lock in" like OEM is a big safety factory. Ones that don't lock in are concerning. I told this to buyer of The Unicorn, so it's up to him now whether to keep the Slee's or switch up to these or back to OEMs.
I will say this. Slees braid SS brake lines have been installing on many rig for sometime now AFASIK. They have much more experience then I. I've not heard of any See's loosen on their own (which is my concern with all non locking), but I wouldn't really hear anything as offroad is not in my daily dealings where they get the most use.
2001LC
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #37
Had the opportunity to install a set of SafeBrakes SS braided & coated flexible rear lines today. When weather warm to 40 F for 90 minutes. Coldfront has keep me out of garage for a week. Tomorrow I'll install fronts.
I like the fitment.
I was able to get a 17mm open end wrench on nut as it was nice and large, to hold the line while I torqued the flare nut to 11ft-lbf. This was after clipping in the line with factory retainer clip on brakes backing plate. Large size allowed for a good firm hold with 17mm wrench.
Will see if these are as sweet a setup as I think they are, after all 4 installed and tested.
I like the fitment.
I was able to get a 17mm open end wrench on nut as it was nice and large, to hold the line while I torqued the flare nut to 11ft-lbf. This was after clipping in the line with factory retainer clip on brakes backing plate. Large size allowed for a good firm hold with 17mm wrench.
Will see if these are as sweet a setup as I think they are, after all 4 installed and tested.
trdcorolla
SILVER Star
Thanks! Did your kit come with 6 lines?
Did you have any issues with old flare piping like before, or did this one install go smoothly?
