Installing SS Braided Brake lines, Flare nut stuck in pipe!

[2001LC]

The flare nut was slightly over flared from being over torqued, just a little on RH side rear.

That RH rear flare nut was difficult to get threads started as it hung up on inner female line threads because it was over torqued mushrooming the flare excessively. So I held a file against the flare nuts flare and spun the flare nut against it, evenly cutting and rounding down the mushroom of flare just a tiny bit. It still was binding on threads of flex line a bit. So to keep from cross threading, I held flare nut with 10mm flare nut wrench in one hand and spun the whole flexible line to thread it on with other hand. I kept flare nut loosely fitted until I had banjo (banjo in locking horns just like OEM, which Slee's are not allowed to) on with union bolt with two new washers/gaskets torqued to 22ft-lbf. I then place on the factory retain clip that secures the flare flex line to brake backing plate. I was careful to get hard pipes' flare to seat into nuts flare tip squarely, by sungging and loosening by hand as I wiggled, pulled and pushed on hard pipe very gently to get it to seat straight on.

But this rig has 250K miles, and it was very apparent the lines had been removed before. So I can't call this a factory over torque. Whomever did it before didn't remove retaining clip from brake backing plate so they could hold flex line with a 17mm open end wrench. The backing backing plate bracket was bent open from flex lines spinning in it. The FSM does instruct us to remove the retainer clip so we can get a 17mm wrench on the flex line nut. The factory flex line nut is not as large (high) in bracket, so we can't get a good bit to hold without removing the retaining clip. These Safebrake with their larger nut made it possible to get a good bit with wrench even while clipped into bracket.

The female end of flare tip/nipple in flex line, looked just like (size/style/fixed) as the Slee's. Where the StopTech that I had so much issues with leaking, were floating nipple on the flex line (swivel). These appear to not be leaking on first torque. I say appear as I need to flush/bleed and degrease. Then I'll retest for leaks, but looks like they're holding pressure just fine.

BTW: I torqued flare nut to 11ft-lbf .

Trick is to keep flare nut crowsfoot inline with torque just as seen here. Treat it as if a solid wrench non ratcheting.

 

[2001LC]

Found Issue with these SafeBrake SS front brake lines.

So I installed the fronts and did have issue again with RH front flare nut being mushroom from factory over torque, LH front no issue. I used a file again held against flare as I turned flare nut on hard pipe to reduce mushroom and round. I found taping the banjo end while I threaded on flare nut end kept port clean.

Here is "Issues" with the SafeBrake front SS line. Had to downgraded in my book. But I still like best of three I've tried out.

First the RH side SS flexible line only had the flare nut receiver clock 90 degrees off. So that I had to turn 90 degrees, putting tension on brake line to make nut fit into slot of factory bracket where hard pipe and flex line couple and clip retains inplace. I chose to turn in a direct that bent SS line away from stabilizer link.

DS was clocked properly and SS flexible line fit relaxed as it should.

Second issue is with the clamping point to knuckle. I still like the fact they lock onto knuckle not allowing line to freely pass through on every flex of suspension, just like OEMs. But the size ~20mm OD of the locking point didn't allow it to seat in the knuckle bracket with its' 16.55mm ID. I had to expand the knuckle bracket a little bit so I could get bolt in, as bolt hole was extending past the threads, which expanding it effectively extend the reach. I did not expand so much as to allow the oversized flex lines bracket to seat sungly in bracket notch, as I was concerned knuckle bracket would break if expanded enough to accept flex lines oversized bracket. Had they reversed bracket on flex line it would have been a closer match be still to large to fit without bend maybe to much. Did any of that make sense?

But I was able to bolt in and as I torque to 21ft-lbf it bend tap just a bit sungly holding line, so it works.

Note: as with the Slee's no leaks at flares on Safebrakes. I did need to add just a little extra torque past the 11ft-lbe to the RH flare nut but all good once I did. This was like due to my reconditioning of the mushrooming from factory over torque.

 

[2001LC]

I'll be contacting SafeBrake and letting them know what I've found. Will see!

 

[trdcorolla]

Did you ever contact SafeBrake? I'm getting ready to purchase SS lines. Would you recommend Slee or SafeBrake?

 

[2001LC]

I did. They've been giving me the round around. They just keep asking for pictures, which I've sent many. Now they want me to remove an take new pictures. This, as they know, IS problematic. As often they will leak if removed and the same reinstalled. I've ask they send me the one brake line, even offered to pay for it. They've not responded!

I'd recommend OEM if not lifted. They will fit prefect and cost much less. Even if lifted, only the two above rear differential/axle need to be longer, all others are the same.

 

[trdcorolla]

Thanks for the quick reply. When I was replacing my rear brakes, I noticed my OEM rubber brake lines didn't have any buldges/bubbles like the FSM pictures, but I did get some rubber flakes on my fingers when I touched them. Is rubber flaking off normal?

 

[2001LC]

Normal with age, for outer layer to flake off.

 

[ShenValley100LC]

2001LC any videos of install on either brake lines? I got the Stoptech ones before I read all this and am looking to put them on tonight.

 

[2001LC]

I've No videos.
Two notes:
Issue with upper rear hard line flare in some 100 series, is factory over tightening. You can file down flare that will/may not fit back in nut, due to mushrooming of flare, if not badly cracked. Same goes for front PS flare.

When installing lines; Oil flare nut threads lightly. Make sure you hand tighten flare as far as you can. Keep flare nut & pipe flare perfectly square as you tighten/torque into nut, to ~8ft-lbf. The inner flare has a coating that will only allow tightening down once.

 

[PaulusNZ]

I have similar problem, 1992 Toyota Carina diesel station wagon ex Japan. I've managed to separate the brake hose with female part from the flare nut on the hard line, but can't get new brake hose female portion to accept the non-threaded portion of the flare nut, which seems to have mushroomed a little.

 

[2001LC]

If flare nut not cracked and not to badly mushroomed. You can file or sand down. Just file down evenly all the way around the outside. Take great care to not get and filing or sand into the line.

In this thread you'll see I re-flared with new fitting, one to badly damage. Other I've filed. Dealership, Slee and most shop just replace the hard line.

 

[PaulusNZ]

 

[PaulusNZ]

 

[2001LC]

Looks like you got it.

I make sure centered in flare by hand tightening. Then torque to 11ft-lbf after both ends hooked up.. Then come back and check for leaks after flush and bleed. If I find a weeper, I sung ~1ft-lbr at a time more until weep stops. With the line SS brained lines I think you have. They sealed in flares very well at ~11ft-lbf. Best way to know if you've a weeper. Is time how long booster motor runs after evacuating (instructions are on reservoir). If over 40 seconds say 35 sec. pre start of working on brakes. Time should be~35 sec ( 30 to 40 is spec) or lower after SS braids lines installed. Over 40 seconds you've issue. The issues is likely a air in lines or weeper of wither bleeders or flares. But can be other issues, but gets complicated and you'd likely would have had alarms pre starting this work.

 

[2001LC]

SafeBrakes SS braided turned out the best ones I've used. I did have issue with one line. But over time, it relaxed and we've had no problems. I really went after the seller for issues. I was not happy. But in the end all worked out fine. So I will try them again.

 

[loeky]

So I finished installing all new flexible SS braided brake lines. So far so good with custom built lines, my new flare and flare nut.

I did fine one more flare nut, at RF wheel, which flare nut was slightly over torqued. This mushroomed out the flare nut inner tip enough to cause to hang-up in female fitting. Luckily it was not cracked or out of round like the upper RH rear. So I used some emery cloth to work "mushroom" down a bit, which aids so it doesn't hang-up while trying to install into female fitting. I made sure each flare and nut was in good condition and clean. I also cleaned and oiled (brake fluid) the threads, pipe passing through flare nut and tip of flares. Then fitting and threading together by hand until sung, only using wrenches to torqued down.


Can't say same for StopTech Flexible SS braided brake lines. These lines had some features that at first appeared nice, but aren't:

LEAK

StopTech 4 piece SS brake lines set leak.

1) The female fitting end spins & swivels even after fits/locks snugly into our factory fitting hanger. This makes install easy as female end is held in place just like factory, while only a 10mm wrench is need to tight the flare nut. The SS line spins freely with the female end until flare nut is torqued. This allow for easy setting brake line in a relaxed state to as to/from the caliber connection. The inner tip that butts to the hard line flare to make the seal, is coated with something that I assume is to aid in sealing to the flare.

A) Here's the bad, why I feel them difficult to install without leaking.
The female not being fixed, makes alignment to hard line flare varring as they butt due to swivelling within the fitting. If that aligment isn't dead-on as they butt together they leak. The coating they add to the tip (inner male end of flare inside fitting) is cut once seated. For this reason, if loosen again they will not seal a second time. Loosen also leaves this now free up coating in the brake line, as solid containment now headed to caliper.
View attachment 1698853
Out of the four Stoptech brake lines, I had one leaking on first install. I spend hours inspecting, cleaning, resetting, photographing giving it my best, but could not stop the leak. Even had StopTech support on the phone. They advised returning for new set, that sometimes lines during manufacture just don't get a good flare tip.

One line that was not leaking, I need to loosen an spin 180 degrees to get line to relax it upto caliper. My fault for torquing flare nut before attaching banjo to caliper in a relaxed state. Once I loosen that line, it started leaking. I spend hours on it cleaning, inspecting photographing reworking. Gave it my best, but now this was number two leak I could not stop.

The package includes new union bolt with seals. Union bolt has a hole for brake fluid to travel through, that is much larger that factory? They also give very stout bleeder caps, very nice. Lines come coated with a clear plastic and with boots at ends. Boots, although look good may end-up holding moisture.

I decided not to take up Stoptech on there offer to replace the set. I drove over to Slee Off Road and bought there full 6 piece set.

Slee Off Road flexible SS braided brake lines. No leaks on first try, even after loosening and retorquing a flare nut.
1) Removing the Stoptech and installing just the four out the six lines Slee gives in their Kit, took two hours. No leaks first time.
I also had one line I didn't get set in a relaxed position. So I needed to loosen flare nut after torquing and reset, no leaks no problems. It happen to be the same spot as I had to reset the Stoptech line that did leak after reseting.

A) The SS brake lines Slee sells is all 6 of flexible lines needed to do complet job. The flare tip is a solid connection to female fitting. So alignment is the same every time on the hard pipe flare. They don't lock into factory hanger, but spin freely with them. This means a second wrench (17mm) is need to hold the female as flare nut (male end) is torqued. But since not equipped with with a keep nut, it can be spun 360 degrees to set line in relaxed position.

They also supply a washer that must be used between 17mm nut and factory hanger. They give us a new retaining clip that is very beefy. They also give new seals (washers) for union bolt of banjo to caliper connection. Also sach line is tag for location.


Notes:

The front calipers not only have secure horns but a hole for pins that only come on factory brake lines banjos only.
Neither set's banjo fit into caliper holder horns. Nore do either have the retaining pin in front banjo that caliper has a receptor hole for locking position in.

The factory front lines also have a fixed securing point that secruce to knuckle. The factory's will not allow for line movement between knuckle and caliper. This keeps moment of front suspension form putting any pressure or allowing any moment on caliper to banjo connection. While it also allows the upper half of line to constantly flexing between where it connect into holder on frame to the securing point on knuckle.

I do not like that both aftermarket sets allow brake line to freely slide within the knuckle securing point. It allows for easy install to get a relaxed line, and no doubt makes manufacture simpler, as they don't need to fix angle to banjo. But factory are so much more secure on caliper to begin with, and the fixed secure point will keep any pressure from up and down movement of suppenssion from ever getting to banjo connection. For this reason one must pay special attention during each 5K PM that union bolt is torqued to spec of 22ft-lbf IMHO.

The StopTech knuckle securing point is made of metal with a rubber cushion/slip the line passes through. The factory nut holding it on can be torqued to factory spec of 21ft-lbf.
View attachment 1698857
The Slee's knuckle securing point is made of plastic, and factory bolt CAN NOT torqued to factory spec, so a thread seal must be used.
View attachment 1698856
View attachment 1698859


I will be speaking to Slee:

IMO: Both need to use a securing point that is fixed or lockable for safety at knuckle IMHO. The factory torque of 22ft-lbf should hold the banjo to caliper securely. BUT, the factory had it's reasons to use three different method of aligning, fixing and keeping movement of suspension from putting any pressure on banjo. These aftermarkets need at least the one they can do, which is securing the line so it does can not move through knuckle securing point.

View attachment 1698858

Hey @2001LC - What size metric flare wrenches did you find required for this job? Looking to buy quality, so not sure if a full set is required.

Read through this and can't see how to gauge torque required to full seat, or if by feel. Appreciate guidance.

 

[2001LC]

Hey @2001LC - What size metric flare wrenches did you find required for this job? Looking to buy quality, so not sure if a full set is required.

Read through this and can't see how to gauge torque required to full seat, or if by feel. Appreciate guidance.

All brake flares nut & bleeders are 10MM. I use a 10mm crows foot flare sockets (see pictures above). Most cases I must attach a short extension between socket and torque wrench.

You can start at 9ft-lbf if oiling threads (I do), and inspect for leak. 11ft-lbf is max, if need to sung more. Key is make sure not to cross thread and seat squarely.

Note: When threads lubed in anyway, torque is 20 to 30% higher than read on torque wrench.

 

[loeky]

All brake flares nut & bleeders are 10MM. I use a 10mm crows foot flare sockets (see pictures above). Most cases I must attach a short extension between socket and torque wrench.

You can start at 9ft-lbf if oiling threads (I do), and inspect for leak. 11ft-lbf is max, if need to sung more. Key is make sure not to cross thread and seat squarely.

Note: When threads lubed in anyway, torque is 20 to 30% higher than read on torque wrench.

Thanks for the detail here. Not sure what I might be getting into with mine as they've had a lot of exposure.

 

[2001LC]

Well not the expose typically, it's factory over torqued some.

I like to brush threads of flare nuts clean and soak days in advance, with penetration oil or ATF.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Well, it's comforting to find this thread. Sorry to drag up an old thread, however I didn't find any others with this issue.
Been lurking here a while, so thought I'd join & share my experience.
I thought I just had an anomaly on my '96 80 series Landcruiser.
Had the same issue as OP when replacing lines.
Started on the chassis to diff rear, slight drag getting the male hard line out of the female, managed to get it back in with some difficulty, thought it was just the tighter fit of the new HEL braided line connection, then I struck time consuming frustration to get the rear right removed as it was badly flared, took about half an hour to get it out, filed it & got it back in, fluid dripping everywhere the whole time, running down my arms.
Lucky I was working in my neighbours pit, so I was standing rather than lying on my back or crouched under the wheel arch.
The other 3 wheels & front diff to chassis were all straight forward.
I would have thought it had been over torqued by a previous owner or mechanic, but it clearly didn't look like it had ever been touched.
Nice of Toyota to throw that curve ball at us.
Cheers all. Hope it doesn't happen to all Toyotas.