injection pump pulling desaster (1 Viewer)

[garfield83]

Hi there, just want to share my experience (as a warning) from pulling a pump out of a 1993 Toyota 1HZ engine. I was probably the first pulling the pump from that engine.
Except the special service tool, which I replaced by a home brew puller, I followed the manual.

The puller was made from 10mm flat bar steel, two 8.8 M8 installation bolts and one 8.8 M12 pressing bolt.

The puller was tightened up to torque of approx 180NM, but the pump did not move. The M80 installation bolts were already bending. I expected the thread on the M12 bolt given up soon. Then the pump came off after using a hammer for banging on the M12 bolt. Inspection revealed that the thread on the front of the drive shaft was severly damaged. The M12 had squeezed the whole thread part of the shaft such that the thread diameter at the undamaged end was still 14mm, at the damaged front 14.5mm. The original shaft lock nut could not be screwed on any more. The thread part of the drive shaft was also a bit bent. The threads in the drive gear are still ok.

I actually wanted to change o-rings behind the timing cover ..................... now I have to go for a pump rebuild/exchange. If the shaft is repairable, one would need a lathe to rebuild the thread.

However, I am wondering how much play in driving direction the drive gear can have. Mine seems to be pretty loose. I can pull it backwards and forwards by hand, which is necessary to have the pump moveable for timing after the drive shaft nut has been tigthend. However, the question is how much. I can move it by 4.5mm. When pushed backwards completely it touches the back of the timing gear case. Any experience??

 

[Loober]

Yikes, I did something similar when i forgot to remove the bolt on the bottom bracket and started prying on it. I think you might be SOL on finding/fixing that shaft without having to source a complete pump. You are in australia so at least you have plenty of resources there. The timing gear feeling loose is normal with the pump out, it needs the pump to be installed for everything to be tight.

 

[garfield83]

Hi Loober,

thanks for the comment.

I did not forget to loosen any bolts. I checked it several times before applying force. What means "SOL" (sorry I am not native english. "Sadly out of luck"??).

Here is a small move about loose timing gear.

 

[Rock40]

You actually experienced a pretty common problem with removing the drive gear from these pumps. Some are just RIDICULOUSLY tight, others come right off. New shafts for your IP pump should still be available, your current one is unfortunately junk. I had one that I attempted to remove for 3 days (1HD-T) without success and I finally sold the IP, engine plate and gear all together very, very cheap. Prior to that, I removed an FT gear with very little trouble. Coin toss

 

[roscoFJ73]

I don't remember seeing any play like that in pump shafts

 

[garfield83]

Hm

I don't remember seeing any play like that in pump shafts

that makes me worring. However, it is not the pump shaft which has play, and when the pump was on the play was between 0.5 and 1 mm, visible as a small gap between the pump flange and the gear housing. I assume that such play is necessary to adjust the timing after the shaft nut has been tightened (with 103NM).

Interestingly when one looks from behind (through the back of the gear housing), one can see that that wheel can be pushed backwards until it aligns with the back of the gear housing. Thus when bashing the puller with the hammer (as recommended by many), one ultimately bashes againts the gear housing .......................

 

[tweeek]

Wonder if you could not just chase the threads with a die at the end of the pump shaft. As long as it chases into the undamaged threads I would think it would be fine.

I cannot remember how much play was in the timing gear when I had my pump out last, but I would imagine there would be some. Correct me if I am wrong, but the gear relies on the pump housing to mount and center? If so, without the pump in place it will have some slop, basically the seals and other gears holding it in place at this time?

 

[roscoFJ73]

I think you would notice all that wobble when you change a timing belt if it was normal but I don't remember it being like that.
I spent 3 days getting my a off a 1HZ and I had it on a stand. Scary when you are banging on it and watching the puller and bolts deflect .

 

[tweeek]

I think you would notice all that wobble when you change a timing belt if it was normal but I don't remember it being like that.
I spent 3 days getting my a off a 1HZ and I had it on a stand. Scary when you are banging on it and watching the puller and bolts deflect .

It won't have the slop when changing the timing belt, since the pump is still in place

 

[garfield83]

It won't have the slop when changing the timing belt, since the pump is still in place

That's what I thought.

For the Aussies. What price can I expect for a rebuild (either mine or exchange). Currently, I have only two types of offers, one from here: Reconditioned Diesel Fuel Pumps » Diesel Center AU$1350 for exchange,
one from a local branch of this Diesel Care | Excellence in Diesel Service - Since 1947 for rebuilding mine for AU$1900, and one from a local diesel pump rebuilder for AUD$1900 exchange.

The difference between the first and the other two is big, but is it sustainable??

While I just have personal recommondation for the local guy, diesel care is a chain and diesel center is an online bussiness. I tried to find some reviews fo the latter, but got just 2.

 

[ozwallaby]

Use a thread file to recut the thread... It's a little bit rough but if you are patient and careful you will get fairly close and you can then run a die over it and all will be good.... It might be best if you use an adjustable die, expand it to maximum get it over the nose and down to the base of the shaft on the undamaged thread, then tighten it so it's a good fit on the undamaged thread, then wind it off to cut an acceptable thread. You may have to do this in small tightening increments to get a good thread.

 

[simonliew]

Same as Rosco,I spent 3 days not long ago taking out a pump from a hdj81,finally took the radiator out,more room to hummer,I even heat the shaft very carefully,finally I put an impact air chisel to it n it bulge.
Didn’t damage the shaft,I use a modified steering wheel puller with a tapered pointy shaft,I think that save the pump shaft....

 

[simonliew]

The thing is one pump will come out in a heartbeat and the next one not so lucky

 

[yotahed]

I have seen shafts like that before, and its almost always a case of the nut being over-torqued. The shaft elongates and gets skinny at the base of the threads. Since the pump is keyed, not a lot of torque is required. Some people seem to think otherwise.

I've had hubs on Inline pumps that required a hydraulic press and a torch to get to pop loose and they never deformed like that.

Once the shaft nose has been deformed like that, it no longer has any strength to rely on. Not really as simple as re cutting the threads. It could snap as soon as you put any force on it, or a week down the road. I wouldnt trust it.
New driveshaft and seal kit at the minimum.