Builds Ikarus' LX470 Offroad Build and BS (3 Viewers)

[suprarx7nut]

I think the reality is our rigs are just plain heavy and I really don't think the steering rack and front diff (especially with atrac engaged) were engineered to handle heavy 35's over technical terrain very often. They have a hard time pulling themselves up and over ledges as a result (a front locker and tcase gears help), but we're bumping them up ledges on trails like golden spike, nailing our rear lower control arms, belly cross member, and crossing our fingers the front diff holds. Break over/rocker clearance isn't that great either due to limitations in the front end design/overall length of the vehicle. If we could get another 1.5-2" more of suspension lift and 37's I think we'd be golden. Could always do a comp cut on the rocker to raise the sliders up another 2" in addition, but now we're getting crazy (or are we? Rigs are getting to be about 20 years old anyway). If spending the money to get 2" more suspension lift and possibly 37's, I think i'd rather go the route of a sas (as opposed to a custom long travel), but we're still dealing with hauling around a pig and trying to get it up and over things. The gladiator and jlur have a much easier time in this regard (lighter), not to mention, they already have the better t case gears, front and rear lockers and a straight axle, which is what makes them so attractive of course. Spending over 40k on a rig to take offroad makes me anxious though, and I don't like having vehicle payments. Bottom line, the 100 wasn't engineered to be a recreational offroader, which is what a lot of us do in the US (especially rocky mtn states). I am with you though, i'm going through the same process. There's the trail tailor sas upcoming, but it's going to be pricey (15-18k) to do it right and make all the work worth it, imo. Is it worth putting that amount of money into a 20 year old vehicle at over 200k miles? Isn't the goal to travel and enjoy being out on the trail, not worrying or constantly maintaining an older vehicle? The sas amount, plus the sale of the 100, doesn't make the Jeep look so unreasonable. Granted, we still have to lift them and put 37's on (unless we wait a couple years and get a pre-owned or used one already lifted/on 37's), but you have to do tires on any vehicle at some point, and lifts are pretty reasonable from what I've seen. Staying with mostly stock steel bumpers and skid plates, and it should stay pretty light. Jeep also increased the jlur's (I know not gladiator, but interesting) payload capacity to 1350lbs for the 2020 model year. Compare that to an 03+ 100 series at 1470lbs. Trails like the rubicon and the dusy aren't feasible in a 100 over the long haul (unless sas happens), and those are on my bucket list. Then there's the 80 series debate. 80's are still big and heavy, slow, poor brake performance, and really old and clapped out now, unless you want to spend Jeep territory money, and it may still not be as capable. Land Cruisers are unique though, comfortable, have great cargo and payload capacity, and are generally reliable as long as you have the funds for upkeep. That's why we have them. What do you do?

The problem with the Jeeps is that the only thing they do better is the tiny fraction of travel time you spend on the really tough obstacles on the tough trails. Highway drive quality takes a huge nose dive, even over a decently maintained 200k 100 series.

All comes down to what you want to do. If the hard trails are your game, hard to beat a lifted Wrangler/Gladiator. If you want to just explore the US and the majority of it's trails, you'll be hard-pressed to do it more comfortably at a similar price point as a 100. What about buying a beat up and cheap Toyota Pickup, throw on gears, obscene lift, huge tires and buy a trailer. You could trailer the pickup to the trail heads and still get to enjoy the 100 on the highway. Plus, we all know a crazy lifted pickup is way cooler than just taking out a loan on a Jeep with a lift and tires.

 

[gungriffin]

I am just going to toss this video up as an interesting reference point on how it could be done. The Overland Bound guy is a bit over the top at points, but I really like his style of travel. He has everything that is needed and not much besides. He recommends spending money on fuel not flash. Those Plano cases are pretty sweet for the price/weight and make it easy to just get gone without much planning. That is an A+ in my book.

315s are great. Probably should have stuck to 285s for pure functionality cause these definitely rub a little and I've crunched my fenders when fully compressed so I had to roll them. But overall awesome and they look great, can't forget that haha

315/70r17. I would stick to 285/75r17 unless you really want the extra size. the 285 is just about as tall and functionally very similar to 315 but you won't rub. I've also crunched my fenders quite a bit and had to roll them pretty aggressively to stop contact when compressed.

These quotes just say to me that it is time for a body lift

 

[Jasonazx]

The problem with the Jeeps is that the only thing they do better is the tiny fraction of travel time you spend on the really tough obstacles on the tough trails. Highway drive quality takes a huge nose dive, even over a decently maintained 200k 100 series.

All comes down to what you want to do. If the hard trails are your game, hard to beat a lifted Wrangler/Gladiator. If you want to just explore the US and the majority of it's trails, you'll be hard-pressed to do it more comfortably at a similar price point as a 100. What about buying a beat up and cheap Toyota Pickup, throw on gears, obscene lift, huge tires and buy a trailer. You could trailer the pickup to the trail heads and still get to enjoy the 100 on the highway. Plus, we all know a crazy lifted pickup is way cooler than just taking out a loan on a Jeep with a lift and tires.

I've driven the new jlur's and gladiators, and compared to a lifted, armored 100 on 35's it's pretty darn good. I get stock for stock comparisons, the 100 getting the edge at that stage. Keeping the Jeeps light and going with 6-8 ply 17" 37's is pretty cushy. I think the newer Jeeps can do both (exploring and more technical terrain) relatively well when comparing modified to modified vehicles. Plenty of examples out there built for both purposes and doing it well.

Your point about a trail rig is a good one and one that i'm considering. I think you could get something road worthy enough to not have to trailer and still do the rougher stuff. The only drawback is additional maintenance and upkeep potentially, however, it wouldn't be a priority like a daily driver. I can't imagine towing anything that heavy with the 100 and then your looking at a tow rig and trailer. You're once again almost to the price point of a newer Jeep, or simply solid axle swapping the 100 and getting a daily driver.

This is all good conversation. I think everyone wants to be talked into keeping their land cruiser honestly haha. All the snow needs to melt so we can head up to the hills, then all of these worries go away.

 

[ikarus]

I think the reality is our rigs are just plain heavy and I really don't think the steering rack and front diff (especially with atrac engaged) were engineered to handle heavy 35's over technical terrain very often. They have a hard time pulling themselves up and over ledges as a result (a front locker and tcase gears help), but we're bumping them up ledges on trails like golden spike, nailing our rear lower control arms, belly cross member, and crossing our fingers the front diff holds. Break over/rocker clearance isn't that great either due to limitations in the front end design/overall length of the vehicle. If we could get another 1.5-2" more of suspension lift and 37's I think we'd be golden. Could always do a comp cut on the rocker to raise the sliders up another 2" in addition, but now we're getting crazy (or are we? Rigs are getting to be about 20 years old anyway). If spending the money to get 2" more suspension lift and possibly 37's, I think i'd rather go the route of a sas (as opposed to a custom long travel), but we're still dealing with hauling around a pig and trying to get it up and over things. The gladiator and jlur have a much easier time in this regard (lighter), not to mention, they already have the better t case gears, front and rear lockers and a straight axle, which is what makes them so attractive of course. Spending over 40k on a rig to take offroad makes me anxious though, and I don't like having vehicle payments. Bottom line, the 100 wasn't engineered to be a recreational offroader, which is what a lot of us do in the US (especially rocky mtn states). I am with you though, i'm going through the same process. There's the trail tailor sas upcoming, but it's going to be pricey (15-18k) to do it right and make all the work worth it, imo. Is it worth putting that amount of money into a 20 year old vehicle at over 200k miles? Isn't the goal to travel and enjoy being out on the trail, not worrying or constantly maintaining an older vehicle? The sas amount, plus the sale of the 100, doesn't make the Jeep look so unreasonable. Granted, we still have to lift them and put 37's on (unless we wait a couple years and get a pre-owned or used one already lifted/on 37's), but you have to do tires on any vehicle at some point, and lifts are pretty reasonable from what I've seen. Staying with mostly stock steel bumpers and skid plates, and it should stay pretty light. Jeep also increased the jlur's (I know not gladiator, but interesting) payload capacity to 1350lbs for the 2020 model year. Compare that to an 03+ 100 series at 1470lbs. Trails like the rubicon and the dusy aren't feasible in a 100 over the long haul (unless sas happens), and those are on my bucket list. Then there's the 80 series debate. 80's are still big and heavy, slow, poor brake performance, and really old and clapped out now, unless you want to spend Jeep territory money, and it may still not be as capable. Land Cruisers are unique though, comfortable, have great cargo and payload capacity, and are generally reliable as long as you have the funds for upkeep. That's why we have them. What do you do?

100% man, I've been having the exact same circular discussions with myself/friends for months. ha. Now that I've got the front locker and 35s it feels pretty great and haven't broken anything yet. SAS would be cool, but yeah at that point, why not just spend the money on a Jeep - the one company who seems to still be listening to its offroad customers. Side note, but I was on a Toyota shoot when they were launching the new Tacoma and one of the Toyota engineers told me that there were basically 3 factions in Toyota USA fighting it out - engineering vs marketing & corporate. Marketing and corporate were both pushing everything to unibody IFS/IRS and engineering was doing their best to keep Tacomas and 4Runners at least solid rear with body on frame. He wasn't sure how much longer we would even have those though, and he just laughed when I told him to get me in touch with someone in corporate who I could convince to bring in the 70 series... Anyway, Toyota has been a cool brand but now all we get is a dorky looking TRD Pro snorkel or a $90K 200 series cruiser? Jeep's solid front axle, mid size pickup with a diesel is looking pretty awesome to me.

Totally agree on the SAS. I would love to do a 105 clone, but then yeah at the end of the day you pay $10K (or more) for a reasonable 100, 10-20K on SAS, and another 10-20K on bumpers, lockers, sliders, skids etc. and what do you end up with? A homebrew 4x4 worth maybe 20K with 50K into it (unless you find the right buyer of course.). Granted yes, cruisers are arguably way cooler and more unique than Jeeps - but I'm not building this so I can meet middle-aged men in gas stations, I just want something to get down the trails. ha. Plus unless you find a meticulously maintained 20+ yr old cruiser, you're gonna be spending a decent amount on maintenance which could have been used on payments for a Rubicon instead. what do you do for real

As it's setup now, the 100 is about perfect for what I do, which is scenic remote trails with occasional obstacles. Not sure I want to sink any more cash into it just to be able to run a few more trails in Moab.

The problem with the Jeeps is that the only thing they do better is the tiny fraction of travel time you spend on the really tough obstacles on the tough trails. Highway drive quality takes a huge nose dive, even over a decently maintained 200k 100 series.

All comes down to what you want to do. If the hard trails are your game, hard to beat a lifted Wrangler/Gladiator. If you want to just explore the US and the majority of it's trails, you'll be hard-pressed to do it more comfortably at a similar price point as a 100. What about buying a beat up and cheap Toyota Pickup, throw on gears, obscene lift, huge tires and buy a trailer. You could trailer the pickup to the trail heads and still get to enjoy the 100 on the highway. Plus, we all know a crazy lifted pickup is way cooler than just taking out a loan on a Jeep with a lift and tires.

I agree. I have a couple friends that have modified their jeeps so heavily that really the only place they go is Moab because everywhere else doesn't have any interesting obstacles so what's the point, in their mind.

I've always loved old Toyota pickups as well. However I will say that the Gladiator is a whole new vehicle and the build quality inside is 10x better than the JK let alone a TJ. That plus the longer wheelbase makes for a really nice driving truck. Obviously it's not as quiet as an LX but it also weighs a lot less.

At least here in Utah there are probably 75% of the trails and roads that can be done with a 100. Then another 15% that can barely be done with a built 100 but a solid axle and more than 2" of down travel would make it way more enjoyable, and another 10% that most only do in super built jeeps or buggies. That's where a Gladiator would shine, since I'm not taking either 100 or Gladiator on the hardest of hard trails, but I would have a lot more flexibility on the other 90% of trails. I honestly don't enjoy rock crawling just to get out and do a 10 mile super hard loop and drive back onto a trailer - but I do love long trails with hard sections that take you somewhere unique/remote/scenic.

Having said that I do really enjoy how comfortable the 100 rides on the 2-3 hours of freeway driving to get to the trail - what do you do.

I am just going to toss this video up as an interesting reference point on how it could be done. The Overland Bound guy is a bit over the top at points, but I really like his style of travel. He has everything that is needed and not much besides. He recommends spending money on fuel not flash. Those Plano cases are pretty sweet for the price/weight and make it easy to just get gone without much planning. That is an A+ in my book.





These quotes just say to me that it is time for a body lift

That's an interesting video. I like to take a lot less than he does. This summer I'd like to try even more of a backpacking setup and just take one 50L pack and tools. No cooler, extra stuff etc.

And yes, I've been thinking about buying one for a while but I just really don't feel like dealing with the body gap and steering issues. Just gonna go with these rolled fenders for now. Again, how cool would it be to buy a truck from a company that foresees these problems and offers easy solutions like higher fenders? What a crazy idea haha

 

[DDMSteve]

Admittedly I have not been in a new Jeep but if it doesn't have that magical little vent right under the steering wheel that gives you a nice cool breeze through basketball shorts on a hot day then I am not interested at all.

 

[Jasonazx]

100% man, I've been having the exact same circular discussions with myself/friends for months. ha. Now that I've got the front locker and 35s it feels pretty great and haven't broken anything yet. SAS would be cool, but yeah at that point, why not just spend the money on a Jeep - the one company who seems to still be listening to its offroad customers. Side note, but I was on a Toyota shoot when they were launching the new Tacoma and one of the Toyota engineers told me that there were basically 3 factions in Toyota USA fighting it out - engineering vs marketing & corporate. Marketing and corporate were both pushing everything to unibody IFS/IRS and engineering was doing their best to keep Tacomas and 4Runners at least solid rear with body on frame. He wasn't sure how much longer we would even have those though, and he just laughed when I told him to get me in touch with someone in corporate who I could convince to bring in the 70 series... Anyway, Toyota has been a cool brand but now all we get is a dorky looking TRD Pro snorkel or a $90K 200 series cruiser? Jeep's solid front axle, mid size pickup with a diesel is looking pretty awesome to me.

Totally agree on the SAS. I would love to do a 105 clone, but then yeah at the end of the day you pay $10K (or more) for a reasonable 100, 10-20K on SAS, and another 10-20K on bumpers, lockers, sliders, skids etc. and what do you end up with? A homebrew 4x4 worth maybe 20K with 50K into it (unless you find the right buyer of course.). Granted yes, cruisers are arguably way cooler and more unique than Jeeps - but I'm not building this so I can meet middle-aged men in gas stations, I just want something to get down the trails. ha. Plus unless you find a meticulously maintained 20+ yr old cruiser, you're gonna be spending a decent amount on maintenance which could have been used on payments for a Rubicon instead. what do you do for real

As it's setup now, the 100 is about perfect for what I do, which is scenic remote trails with occasional obstacles. Not sure I want to sink any more cash into it just to be able to run a few more trails in Moab.

I've always loved old Toyota pickups as well. However I will say that the Gladiator is a whole new vehicle and the build quality inside is 10x better than the JK let alone a TJ. That plus the longer wheelbase makes for a really nice driving truck. Obviously it's not as quiet as an LX but it also weighs a lot less.

At least here in Utah there are probably 75% of the trails and roads that can be done with a 100. Then another 15% that can barely be done with a built 100 but a solid axle and more than 2" of down travel would make it way more enjoyable, and another 10% that most only do in super built jeeps or buggies. That's where a Gladiator would shine, since I'm not taking either 100 or Gladiator on the hardest of hard trails, but I would have a lot more flexibility on the other 90% of trails. I honestly don't enjoy rock crawling just to get out and do a 10 mile super hard loop and drive back onto a trailer - but I do love long trails with hard sections that take you somewhere unique/remote/scenic.

Having said that I do really enjoy how comfortable the 100 rides on the 2-3 hours of freeway driving to get to the trail - what do you do.

All of these are the points I've been going round and round about with the same group of people on my end. I'm out in moab at least twice a year and wheel all over Colorado 1-2x per month. I don't enjoy simply seeking out the most difficult trails either. As I've been doing this more and more (15+ years in multiple cruisers and 4runners) I am finding that a vehicle designed for recreational 4wd use is the smartest thing to be operating where I go. Needing a vehicle with a super large cargo/payload capacity to haul several people across remote countries isn't really a reality in the US, unless you are a full time "overlander". I think the JLUR and JTR platforms are simply going to hold up better when encountering obstacles and make trips more enjoyable as the vehicle and you won't be struggling/worrying as much. I think people get way too carried away on their Jeep builds. Since we only need a slight increase in capability and durability (straight front end), then a set of 37's, 4.88 gears, 4:1 tcase, dual lockers and a lighter rig; it's going to impress the pants off of us just like that.

100's are old, 80's are older, and 200's aren't ideal if you really get out into technical terrain often (this I am finding increasingly important as the years go by. I feel like more and more of the special places are being discovered, which is pushing me further into the back country/technical trails), especially for the price compared to a Jeep. I believe we will continue to sink quite a bit of maintenance into the 100's, which is expensive. Not to mention, it's a pain in the ass getting to certain things on the 100. A warranty and everything else mentioned sounds pretty good to me right now. To the other posters point-more travel, less workie and junk to worry about. I love my 100 and of course would be giving up a few things, but overall, do I really need all of those things, and do I need what the new Jeep offers more?

 

[Jasonazx]

Admittedly I have not been in a new Jeep but if it doesn't have that magical little vent right under the steering wheel that gives you a nice cool breeze through basketball shorts on a hot day then I am not interested at all.

This could not be more true!

 

[ikarus]

All of these are the points I've been going round and round about with the same group of people on my end. I'm out in moab at least twice a year and wheel all over Colorado 1-2x per month. I don't enjoy simply seeking out the most difficult trails either. As I've been doing this more and more (15+ years in multiple cruisers and 4runners) I am finding that a vehicle designed for recreational 4wd use is the smartest thing to be operating where I go. Needing a vehicle with a super large cargo/payload capacity to haul several people across remote countries isn't really a reality in the US, unless you are a full time "overlander". I think the JLUR and JTR platforms are simply going to hold up better when encountering obstacles and make trips more enjoyable as the vehicle and you won't be struggling/worrying as much. I think people get way too carried away on their Jeep builds. Since we only need a slight increase in capability and durability (straight front end), then a set of 37's, 4.88 gears, 4:1 tcase, dual lockers and a lighter rig; it's going to impress the pants off of us just like that.

100's are old, 80's are older, and 200's aren't ideal if you really get out into technical terrain often (this I am finding increasingly important as the years go by. I feel like more and more of the special places are being discovered, which is pushing me further into the back country/technical trails), especially for the price compared to a Jeep. I believe we will continue to sink quite a bit of maintenance into the 100's, which is expensive. Not to mention, it's a pain in the ass getting to certain things on the 100. A warranty and everything else mentioned sounds pretty good to me right now. To the other posters point-more travel, less workie and junk to worry about. I love my 100 and of course would be giving up a few things, but overall, do I really need all of those things, and do I need what the new Jeep offers more?

Exactly dude. On my next build I'm keeping it as minimal as possible. Everything you said, 4.88s and 37s, small bumper in the front, sliders and a spare in the bed.

 

[Kabanstva]

I say keep the 100 and get an older Jeep or Toyota for tougher trails. Can you really see yourself taking a brand new, shiny Rubicon JL on stuff that can crush the fenders and quarter panels in? Even if you’ve got amazing skills, body damage is just part of the game if you wanna rock crawl. I know, I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos.

 

[ikarus]

I say keep the 100 and get an older Jeep or Toyota for tougher trails. Can you really see yourself taking a brand new, shiny Rubicon JL on stuff that can crush the fenders and quarter panels in? Even if you’ve got amazing skills, body damage is just part of the game if you wanna rock crawl. I know, I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos.

That's a good point, I don't even care if my 100 gets scratched up - though I didn't really mind when I had a brand new Tacoma either. I don't really do trails that end up in body damage. I think in the east those are a lot more common with mud and trees and wet rocks but for the most part in the west you're more at risk of a complete rollover than sliding into obstacles.

 

[Jasonazx]

That's a good point, I don't even care if my 100 gets scratched up - though I didn't really mind when I had a brand new Tacoma either. I don't really do trails that end up in body damage. I think in the east those are a lot more common with mud and trees and wet rocks but for the most part in the west you're more at risk of a complete rollover than sliding into obstacles.

I know for myself, for the most part, I'm not looking tackle too many more difficult trails over where i'm at now. I just want to be able to put less strain on the vehicle and enjoy my time out more with what i'm doing now. If it's a long term vehicle (beyond my average 4 years), which it would be for me, I don't see the big deal in buying newer and enjoying. Additional insurance, registration, maintenance and repairs on a trail beater plus the 100 could get frustrating, and demand even more of my time and energy. It's just adding more stuff=more stuff to break and maintain, which is the whole reason for getting into a newer Jeep, imo (one ring to rule them all!). If anything, having a cheap daily driver with the Jeep at some point down the line, might be the ideal solution.

 

[RootMeanSqr]

I think you should rename this thread to "Ikarus and friends buy a Jeep Thread". What happened to the "build" part of this thread? LOL.

 

[ikarus]

I think you should rename this thread to "Ikarus and friends buy a Jeep Thread". What happened to the "build" part of this thread? LOL.

haha right? There's a good 30+ pages of build but at this point I'm running out of things I need/want to do it so the discussion naturally progresses to a solid axle and how I'm gonna get it, whether that's $10-20K more dumped into a 20 year old cruiser or put that money toward something else..

Really all I have left is bumpstops, a part time kit and maybe a snorkel.

 

[Jasonazx]

haha right? There's a good 30+ pages of build but at this point I'm running out of things I need/want to do it so the discussion naturally progresses to a solid axle and how I'm gonna get it, whether that's $10-20K more dumped into a 20 year old cruiser or put that money toward something else..

Really all I have left is bumpstops, a part time kit and maybe a snorkel.

While "you're in there" for the part-time kit you might as well do the 3:1 reduction gears and underdrive gears for when you go to 37's haha.

It's probably my fault with all the Jeep talk, build thread back on!

 

[RootMeanSqr]

haha right? There's a good 30+ pages of build but at this point I'm running out of things I need/want to do it so the discussion naturally progresses to a solid axle and how I'm gonna get it, whether that's $10-20K more dumped into a 20 year old cruiser or put that money toward something else..

Really all I have left is bumpstops, a part time kit and maybe a snorkel.

No worries, it's your thread, just yanking your snatch straps.

 

[wvrx]

If you could choose again would you go 285/75/17 or 315/70/17 Toyo MT?
I just picked up a set of 17x8.5 +25mm 17’s and debating which size to go with, I can’t tell a big difference visually from your pictures. I’ll be running a 4spd and factory gearing

 

[CBeckFJ]

Honestly IMO, I'd go for an older TJ or LJ, with a Toyota drivetrain (1FZ/1HZ, 5 speed, and Dana 60's). Just seems more reliable to me

 

[BJJCruiser]

I encourage all the jeep talk. 100 series are over rated. Sell them for cheap, and go buy jeeps!

 

[ikarus]

If you could choose again would you go 285/75/17 or 315/70/17 Toyo MT?
I just picked up a set of 17x8.5 +25mm 17’s and debating which size to go with, I can’t tell a big difference visually from your pictures. I’ll be running a 4spd and factory gearing

I would stick with 285/75. It’s a great size with minimal hassle, especially with stock gearing. I gained probably less than an inch of extra height with the 315s

 

[ikarus]

Honestly IMO, I'd go for an older TJ or LJ, with a Toyota drivetrain (1FZ/1HZ, 5 speed, and Dana 60's). Just seems more reliable to me

A 70 series would be sick too. I just can’t decide if I’d rather have a 73/74 or a troopy.

I encourage all the jeep talk. 100 series are over rated. Sell them for cheap, and go buy jeeps!

Haha now that the economy is looking like it’s gonna tank my 100 isn’t going anywhere. I’m hoping that 80 prices come down a little