I think the reality is our rigs are just plain heavy and I really don't think the steering rack and front diff (especially with atrac engaged) were engineered to handle heavy 35's over technical terrain very often. They have a hard time pulling themselves up and over ledges as a result (a front locker and tcase gears help), but we're bumping them up ledges on trails like golden spike, nailing our rear lower control arms, belly cross member, and crossing our fingers the front diff holds. Break over/rocker clearance isn't that great either due to limitations in the front end design/overall length of the vehicle. If we could get another 1.5-2" more of suspension lift and 37's I think we'd be golden. Could always do a comp cut on the rocker to raise the sliders up another 2" in addition, but now we're getting crazy (or are we? Rigs are getting to be about 20 years old anyway). If spending the money to get 2" more suspension lift and possibly 37's, I think i'd rather go the route of a sas (as opposed to a custom long travel), but we're still dealing with hauling around a pig and trying to get it up and over things. The gladiator and jlur have a much easier time in this regard (lighter), not to mention, they already have the better t case gears, front and rear lockers and a straight axle, which is what makes them so attractive of course. Spending over 40k on a rig to take offroad makes me anxious though, and I don't like having vehicle payments. Bottom line, the 100 wasn't engineered to be a recreational offroader, which is what a lot of us do in the US (especially rocky mtn states). I am with you though, i'm going through the same process. There's the trail tailor sas upcoming, but it's going to be pricey (15-18k) to do it right and make all the work worth it, imo. Is it worth putting that amount of money into a 20 year old vehicle at over 200k miles? Isn't the goal to travel and enjoy being out on the trail, not worrying or constantly maintaining an older vehicle? The sas amount, plus the sale of the 100, doesn't make the Jeep look so unreasonable. Granted, we still have to lift them and put 37's on (unless we wait a couple years and get a pre-owned or used one already lifted/on 37's), but you have to do tires on any vehicle at some point, and lifts are pretty reasonable from what I've seen. Staying with mostly stock steel bumpers and skid plates, and it should stay pretty light. Jeep also increased the jlur's (I know not gladiator, but interesting) payload capacity to 1350lbs for the 2020 model year. Compare that to an 03+ 100 series at 1470lbs. Trails like the rubicon and the dusy aren't feasible in a 100 over the long haul (unless sas happens), and those are on my bucket list. Then there's the 80 series debate. 80's are still big and heavy, slow, poor brake performance, and really old and clapped out now, unless you want to spend Jeep territory money, and it may still not be as capable. Land Cruisers are unique though, comfortable, have great cargo and payload capacity, and are generally reliable as long as you have the funds for upkeep. That's why we have them. What do you do?
100% man, I've been having the exact same circular discussions with myself/friends for months. ha. Now that I've got the front locker and 35s it feels pretty great and haven't broken anything yet. SAS would be cool, but yeah at that point, why not just spend the money on a Jeep - the one company who seems to still be listening to its offroad customers. Side note, but I was on a Toyota shoot when they were launching the new Tacoma and one of the Toyota engineers told me that there were basically 3 factions in Toyota USA fighting it out - engineering vs marketing & corporate. Marketing and corporate were both pushing everything to unibody IFS/IRS and engineering was doing their best to keep Tacomas and 4Runners at least solid rear with body on frame. He wasn't sure how much longer we would even have those though, and he just laughed when I told him to get me in touch with someone in corporate who I could convince to bring in the 70 series... Anyway, Toyota has been a cool brand but now all we get is a dorky looking TRD Pro snorkel or a $90K 200 series cruiser? Jeep's solid front axle, mid size pickup with a diesel is looking pretty awesome to me.
Totally agree on the SAS. I would love to do a 105 clone, but then yeah at the end of the day you pay $10K (or more) for a reasonable 100, 10-20K on SAS, and another 10-20K on bumpers, lockers, sliders, skids etc. and what do you end up with? A homebrew 4x4 worth maybe 20K with 50K into it (unless you find the right buyer of course.). Granted yes, cruisers are arguably way cooler and more unique than Jeeps - but I'm not building this so I can meet middle-aged men in gas stations, I just want something to get down the trails. ha. Plus unless you find a meticulously maintained 20+ yr old cruiser, you're gonna be spending a decent amount on maintenance which could have been used on payments for a Rubicon instead. what do you do for real
As it's setup now, the 100 is about perfect for what I do, which is scenic remote trails with occasional obstacles. Not sure I want to sink any more cash into it just to be able to run a few more trails in Moab.
The problem with the Jeeps is that the only thing they do better is the tiny fraction of travel time you spend on the really tough obstacles on the tough trails. Highway drive quality takes a huge nose dive, even over a decently maintained 200k 100 series.
All comes down to what you want to do. If the hard trails are your game, hard to beat a lifted Wrangler/Gladiator. If you want to just explore the US and the majority of it's trails, you'll be hard-pressed to do it more comfortably at a similar price point as a 100. What about buying a beat up and cheap Toyota Pickup, throw on gears, obscene lift, huge tires and buy a trailer. You could trailer the pickup to the trail heads and still get to enjoy the 100 on the highway. Plus, we all know a crazy lifted pickup is way cooler than just taking out a loan on a Jeep with a lift and tires.
I agree. I have a couple friends that have modified their jeeps so heavily that really the only place they go is Moab because everywhere else doesn't have any interesting obstacles so what's the point, in their mind.
I've always loved old Toyota pickups as well. However I will say that the Gladiator is a whole new vehicle and the build quality inside is 10x better than the JK let alone a TJ. That plus the longer wheelbase makes for a really nice driving truck. Obviously it's not as quiet as an LX but it also weighs a lot less.
At least here in Utah there are probably 75% of the trails and roads that can be done with a 100. Then another 15% that can barely be done with a built 100 but a solid axle and more than 2" of down travel would make it way more enjoyable, and another 10% that most only do in super built jeeps or buggies. That's where a Gladiator would shine, since I'm not taking either 100 or Gladiator on the hardest of hard trails, but I would have a lot more flexibility on the other 90% of trails. I honestly don't enjoy rock crawling just to get out and do a 10 mile super hard loop and drive back onto a trailer - but I do love long trails with hard sections that take you somewhere unique/remote/scenic.
Having said that I do really enjoy how comfortable the 100 rides on the 2-3 hours of freeway driving to get to the trail - what do you do.
I am just going to toss this video up as an interesting reference point on how it could be done. The Overland Bound guy is a bit over the top at points, but I really like his style of travel. He has everything that is needed and not much besides. He recommends spending money on fuel not flash. Those Plano cases are pretty sweet for the price/weight and make it easy to just get gone without much planning. That is an A+ in my book.
These quotes just say to me that it is time for a body lift
That's an interesting video. I like to take a lot less than he does. This summer I'd like to try even more of a backpacking setup and just take one 50L pack and tools. No cooler, extra stuff etc.
And yes, I've been thinking about buying one for a while but I just really don't feel like dealing with the body gap and steering issues. Just gonna go with these rolled fenders for now. Again, how cool would it be to buy a truck from a company that foresees these problems and offers easy solutions like higher fenders? What a crazy idea haha
