Ignition timing issues, please advise... (1 Viewer)

[REZARF]

Howdy everyone-

I have just heard my 76 fj40 run under its own power for the first time in over a year. It is/was a good feeling.

However, I am having a heck of a time getting the timing set. I have swapped an electronic ignition in from an '85 fj60. Here is what is happening:

The engine starts and runs on its own but only on with the choke all the way out. And it runs a bit rough.

When I attempt to put the choke back in the engine sputters and stalls.

I did let the engine warm all the way to opperating temperature.

Here is my delima: To get the engine to fire. I have the rotor pointed more at #5 Cylinder than #4, pretty much in between the two. To get the engine to run I must rotate the distributor ALL the way to the limit in a counter clock-wise direction. It will stay running at that postition but I have no more adjustability. I cannot see the BB or the TDC mark with the timing light.

I have started everything at TDC on the flywheel and on the compression stroke. Even as I scroll through the entire range of the timing light advance I never end up seeing either the BB or TDC mark.

What am I missing or doing wrong, I am really stummped. Thanks for any advice.

Drew <><

 

[REZARF]

Come on, someone has to have some idea whats going here?

Drew <><

 

[Pin_Head]

You need to see the timing mark or you are way off. Try moving all the spark plug wires over one hole counter-clockwise in the distrubutor cap and see if that helps.

The not running without the choke issue sounds unrelated and may be a vacuum leak.

 

[REZARF]

Thanks Pin Head-

Is it possible for the gear to be off. I guess I should pull it and drop it in again. It was amazing that it would run at all without EVER seeing the timing marks, these motors absolutley fascinate me!

At TDC I should have the rotor aimed at the number 4 cylinder right?

Thanks in advance-

Drew <><

 

[Pin_Head]

Yes, you got it off a tooth or two. You gotta agree that moving the wires is easier than pulling the distributor and reinstalling it. Accomplishes the same thing but with less precision.

 

[Poser]

Until you forget that you did it, and two or three years from now you change plugs and wires, and post the same question because the truck does not run properly...

Removing and installing the distributor is not that big of a deal...

Good luck!

-Steve

 

[Pin_Head]

[quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=12301;start=msg112979#msg112979 date=1078121661]

Removing and installing the distributor is not that big of a deal...



-Steve
[/quote]


Not if you are sure to get the oil pump slot engaged. If you don't it can be a big deal.

 

[Perfect Obsession]

As other members were saying, the distributor shall be well oriented in regard to engine cylcle to have enough distributor timing play.

Here the removal text

...
Rotate the engine crankshaft so that the timing mark on the flywheel appears in the inspection window. This is 7 deg before TDC. Now align the distributor up with the rotor, in its installed attitude, and check that the rotor is pointing towards No.1 spark plug segment in the cap. If it is pointing towards No.6 segment, rotate the crankshaft thru 360 deg.
...

Here is the installation text

...
If the position has been lost, set to No.1 or No.6 piston at 7 deg BTDC as previously described <in the removal text>. Whichever of the pistons is reaching TDC as the crankshaft is rotated will have the valves of that cylinder closed. This can be checked by feeling the cylinder compression with the spark plug removed from these cylinders, or by removing the rocker cover and checking which of the two cylinders has its valve rockers "rocking" (ie: clearance is evident at both valve/rocker contact faces). If necessary, rotate the crankshaft thru 360 deg so that No.1 piston is on its compression stroke or its valves rockers are "rocking".
Using this method, set No.1 piston at 7 deg BTDC then align the distributor body above its location hole so that it is approximatively 30 deg counterclokwise.
Install the distributor in this position, noting that the rotor moves clockwise as the gear engages.
...

Note: I had to tweak the oil pump slot with a long flat screw driver to align the slot with the distributor coin. The coin shall rotate when engaging with the cam gear so expect some counterclockwise pre-orientation. IMHO, this is the worst guest part.

Note: After installing the distributor, be sure that the oil pressure indicates "pressure" when engine starts since the distributor gear engages the oil pump.

 

[theo]

[quote author=Drew <>< link=board=1;threadid=12301;start=msg112875#msg112875 date=1078112467]
At TDC I should have the rotor aimed at the number 4 cylinder right?<><
[/quote]

Not if you ask me. TDC means the #1 piston is at the top of it's compression stroke. The rotor should be pointing to the #1 plug wire. Why would you want #4 plug to fire when #1 cylinder is ready??

 

[Perfect Obsession]

<<
Using this method, set No.1 piston at 7 deg BTDC then align the distributor body above its location hole so that it is approximatively 30 deg counterclokwise.
Install the distributor in this position, noting that the rotor moves clockwise as the gear engages.
>>

 

[REZARF]

Guys thanks for the help- but my sagga continues

I pulled the distributor and moved it over a "tooth" on the gear. The engine now runs MUCH smoother. However, I am still running nearly 30 degrees of advance to have it run really smooth with no choke and the vacuum advance removed and plugged.

What am I missing? I am somewhat new at this, but I have set my timing before. I am flustered, with the choke out it seems to raise the idle and allow me to set the timing right at 7 degrees before TDC.

Let me just put this on the table.

I am setting my timing gun at 7 degrees of advance, then I am able to see the BB right at the pointer, but when I reduce the choke I start to stutter and sputter and missing a bit until I bring the advance up to the 20+ degree mark.

Like I said, I have the vacuum disconnected
I also have brought the engine up to temp.

I cannont seem to figure this out, is it possible I am still another "gear tooth" off?

I am kinda stuck, any advice would be great. :-\

Drew <><

 

[Paul_A]

Gotta ask: Is the new distributor vacuum advance or retard? That might make a difference in the centrifical weights that change as the idle changes.

 

[Pin_Head]

You need to finish the tune up.
Set the timing at 7 BTDC, then focus on the carb. Set the idle speed and idle mix. If it won't idle, I would suspect that the idle circuit isn't working. Remove the idle fuel cut off and check it for correct operation and clean it. Spray some carb cleaner in the solenoid hole in the carb. Remove the idle mix screw and spray some more in there. REassemble and try again. If none of this works, rebuild the carb. Carbs don't like to sit for a long time not running. It often gums them up.

 

[theo]

I agree you should finish the tune-up.

You may also have one or more vacuum leaks. (Been discussed pretty thoroughly here.) You can look for them by spraying something (carb cleaner, starting fluid, WD40, propane, etc.) around until you hear the revs change. The stuff you spray fills the hole temporarily, and may also combust, and the engine smooths out. Spray around the carb and intake gaskets, vacuum hoses, brake booster, etc.

 

[REZARF]

Thanks again-

I looked all over the carb and couldnt find the idle adjust screw per the Hanes manual illustration, can you point me to the right one?

Second, I should have the vacuum advance hose to the distributor disconnected right?
and Pin Head, where is the solenoid hole?

Thanks again for all your help, I am in really new territory here.

Drew <><

 

[Poser]

Providing you have a Toyota carb, there should be a solenoid on the top part of the carb, should have one wire leading from it, that attaches to a switched 12V power supply. This should make a very audible 'click' when the key is turned, energizing the solenoid...no click...no idle..

Idle screw for the linkage will be on the bulkhead side of the carb, and accsessable with a long, flat blade screwdriver, comming in from the pass side, towards the base of the carb...look and you will see it...

PM me if you want a call...

Good luck!

-Steve

 

[REZARF]

Poser-

Thanks for the tips, yeah it is a stock 76 toyota carb. Bulkhead means facing the firewall right? Can you tell I havent done carb work before... bummer is I had Jim C. of TLC Performance rebuild my carb 6 months before the cruiser died, didnt know to keep it "wet"

Tune with the advance disconnected.

Thanks for the help guys, I feel really close and I am getting ready to get my cruiser back on the road.

Drew <><

 

[TonkaC]

One thing I did is trust the numbers that were printed on my after market distributor cap. They were not correct and once I got the actual firing order it fired right up and ran great. Just a thought. Had the same problem.

Chris