My guess (purely a "guess" too) is that this would be the case.
Anyway, I intend to weld extensions onto my LH radiator bracket one day to make mine look like an ex-factory installation.
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My guess (purely a "guess" too) is that this would be the case.
Anyway, I intend to weld extensions onto my LH radiator bracket one day to make mine look like an ex-factory installation.
I'm no expert, but I thing year has alot to do with PTO winches too.
My 73 FJ-40 was bought from the dealer as a factory hardtop, no extras. When I restored it though, I noticed several things. For one, up to 75, a 40 could come off the line as a hardtop or a soft top very easily. After 75, the tiedowns and such dissapeared on the rear corners. 79' of course was another big change in things, newer frame, longer springs, redesigned body, etc...
My frame, the radiator support especially was settup for a factory PTO. The Left hand tab, as the above pictures show, does have the extra ears on it. Also, a splashplate/skidplate under the radiator and fan belt area had a small panel, that is removable. I lucked out and got a PTO unit from a 72 I believe. The stock pillow block bolts right into those ears. The small little plate came off so that the Ujoint between the pillow block and PTO box had room to move. From the pillow block a short shaft and Ujoint pass through the frame and to the winch head.
The winch head bolts right up to the frame, no problem. Pre 74, the three speed trans period, the PTO gear was in the transfer case. After 75, with the fourspeeds the PTO gear was absent, and had to be added, unfortuantley by taking the transfer off and putting in in the case in the place of a spacer. I'm not sure if the split cases had the gear, or a spacer. But it seems after 75, the PTO had to be destined from the factory, more than pre 75 when a dealer, or owner could easily bolt on a PTO if a someone wanted it.
79 and up could be a different animal. My stock settup does run pretty close to the oil pan. What is bad on mine, is that the first flange to the PTO box is not original, it is a Toyota flange and ujoint, but not for a PTO winch, not sure what it really came off, maybe a car driveshaft. Then the slip yoke slides onto the shaft, but the splines have some play. This looseness causes a pretty wicked vibration. I need to build a new spline section somehow to make mine right.
My 73 FJ-40 was bought from the dealer as a factory hardtop, no extras. When I restored it though, I noticed several things. For one, up to 75, a 40 could come off the line as a hardtop or a soft top very easily. After 75, the tiedowns and such dissapeared on the rear corners. 79' of course was another big change in things, newer frame, longer springs, redesigned body, etc...
My frame, the radiator support especially was settup for a factory PTO. The Left hand tab, as the above pictures show, does have the extra ears on it. Also, a splashplate/skidplate under the radiator and fan belt area had a small panel, that is removable. I lucked out and got a PTO unit from a 72 I believe. The stock pillow block bolts right into those ears. The small little plate came off so that the Ujoint between the pillow block and PTO box had room to move. From the pillow block a short shaft and Ujoint pass through the frame and to the winch head.
The winch head bolts right up to the frame, no problem. Pre 74, the three speed trans period, the PTO gear was in the transfer case. After 75, with the fourspeeds the PTO gear was absent, and had to be added, unfortuantley by taking the transfer off and putting in in the case in the place of a spacer. I'm not sure if the split cases had the gear, or a spacer. But it seems after 75, the PTO had to be destined from the factory, more than pre 75 when a dealer, or owner could easily bolt on a PTO if a someone wanted it.
79 and up could be a different animal. My stock settup does run pretty close to the oil pan. What is bad on mine, is that the first flange to the PTO box is not original, it is a Toyota flange and ujoint, but not for a PTO winch, not sure what it really came off, maybe a car driveshaft. Then the slip yoke slides onto the shaft, but the splines have some play. This looseness causes a pretty wicked vibration. I need to build a new spline section somehow to make mine right.
Very valuable stuff for me here MoCoNative. ---- Thanks.
I think you're right about the year of manufacture playing a big part.
I'm going away from my computer for a couple of weeks so I won't get to see this fabulous thread for a while, but I'll just comment on a few selective parts of your post here:
That splashplate on mine has a "dished out" portion to allow clearance to the spinning universal joint (no removeable section) and I used my limited panel-beating skills to dish it out even further.
(Incidentally, I now think my PTO equipment originated from an early 70s BJ/FJ.)
I had to drill holes in my bumper and frame to fit mine but it wasn't a problem either.
These's another thread going at the moment in the "40 series forum" on PTO winches and, as I posted there, it is interesting to note that my BJ40 left the factory without a PTO winch but with the PTO gear fitted to the (H41) transmission.
(Incidentally, I don't have a problem with my PTO shaft being too close to my engine sump (oil pan) either.)
Both my (front and rear) PTO driveshaft "sliding-splined-joints" have quite a bit of play too but I don't notice any vibration. (Surprises me really. Perhaps there are too many other louder noises occurring when I'm winching?)
You can easily get universal joints of about the right sizing off "car steering drive trains" but like you, I'm not sure of a common alternative source for the male/female splines.
I think you're right about the year of manufacture playing a big part.
I'm going away from my computer for a couple of weeks so I won't get to see this fabulous thread for a while, but I'll just comment on a few selective parts of your post here:
That splashplate on mine has a "dished out" portion to allow clearance to the spinning universal joint (no removeable section) and I used my limited panel-beating skills to dish it out even further.
(Incidentally, I now think my PTO equipment originated from an early 70s BJ/FJ.)
I had to drill holes in my bumper and frame to fit mine but it wasn't a problem either.
These's another thread going at the moment in the "40 series forum" on PTO winches and, as I posted there, it is interesting to note that my BJ40 left the factory without a PTO winch but with the PTO gear fitted to the (H41) transmission.
(Incidentally, I don't have a problem with my PTO shaft being too close to my engine sump (oil pan) either.)
Both my (front and rear) PTO driveshaft "sliding-splined-joints" have quite a bit of play too but I don't notice any vibration. (Surprises me really. Perhaps there are too many other louder noises occurring when I'm winching?)
You can easily get universal joints of about the right sizing off "car steering drive trains" but like you, I'm not sure of a common alternative source for the male/female splines.
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My shaft has a enough play in the splines, and the way that it is, that I can push it over and make the shaft not be straight. I can undestand a little play in the splines, that would seem normal, mine is just mismatched.
I bet yours probably did come off an earlier model. Glad it will fit up, they are not complicated to fit really. But there was probably a revised design for newer models, that's my guess anyways.
I will say I haven't used my winch much. When I lived in a place where I could have used it alot, I really wanted it. Then later on I got it, and haven't wheeled as much. Plus that fact I live in NW Colorado, where it is pretty much all sage brush, no trees or anything to winch to if you needed unstuck anyways. I want to either build or spend the big bucks on a land anchor. When I have used my winch though, it worked great. Mainly used it for stuff around the house, where a continously running winch was needed, and that's what I got it for.
One other thing I did was put the synthetic Amsteel Blue line on. I'm careful with it, kind of pricey stuff, but man is it nice to spool a bunch off fast, take it in your hand like rope and just walk over to the spot you want to tie on. Much nicer than wire rope I think.
Got it from Rockstomper.com as I recall, one of the best prices I found on it. Don't know if you have it available in kiwi land or not, check marine supply places, as I understand it was developed for the marine industry. Much stronger than wire, and won't recoil as badly from what I understand.
I bet yours probably did come off an earlier model. Glad it will fit up, they are not complicated to fit really. But there was probably a revised design for newer models, that's my guess anyways.
I will say I haven't used my winch much. When I lived in a place where I could have used it alot, I really wanted it. Then later on I got it, and haven't wheeled as much. Plus that fact I live in NW Colorado, where it is pretty much all sage brush, no trees or anything to winch to if you needed unstuck anyways. I want to either build or spend the big bucks on a land anchor. When I have used my winch though, it worked great. Mainly used it for stuff around the house, where a continously running winch was needed, and that's what I got it for.
One other thing I did was put the synthetic Amsteel Blue line on. I'm careful with it, kind of pricey stuff, but man is it nice to spool a bunch off fast, take it in your hand like rope and just walk over to the spot you want to tie on. Much nicer than wire rope I think.
Got it from Rockstomper.com as I recall, one of the best prices I found on it. Don't know if you have it available in kiwi land or not, check marine supply places, as I understand it was developed for the marine industry. Much stronger than wire, and won't recoil as badly from what I understand.
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Hi MocoNative,
I'm thinking of going to synthetic winching line myself. Besides the easy handling, I like the fact that if the rope breaks under tension, it doesn't elastically snap back and possibly whip you, which the wire rope can do.
I'm thinking of going to synthetic winching line myself. Besides the easy handling, I like the fact that if the rope breaks under tension, it doesn't elastically snap back and possibly whip you, which the wire rope can do.
Hey those pics look familiar. That PTO was mine, along with the winch head. I got it from a guy who bought it from SOR. It was from an HJ6*. Funny, until now I never realized that front/rear output was not standard on all toyota PTOs. I sold it to Rick D after I sold my FJ60 but I wish I would have kept it. Would have worked great on the troopie. Nice work with your pillow block mount.
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Cruiser Ken,
well, since I got those pics from Rick D, you have filled in the chain of ownership. That was a keeper for sure! Let me know if you come across another and have a weak moment
I've been suffering from a dislocated rib since I did that work on the pillow block mount - no cause come to mind for the injury, other than the fact I'm over 40...
So, Ive been doing a little bit on the truck, mostly relating to the wiring. Here's a picture of my BJ60 fuse panel, which I went through, with the help of the FSM and identified the wires and their associations. I ended up with one unused fuse position, which is great. Once I had the fuse panel sorted, I was able to make a few small changes to my wiring diagram (which I will post up when I'm sure it will work down to the last detail) to reflect that.
Tonight I sorted out the wiring for the 70 series turn signals, which entailed pulling a couple of connectors out of the terminals and clicking in the connectors with correct wire color. I'm going to stick with the factory routing of the headlamp/turn signal/alternator/wiper motor/glow and start relays/rear lights/reverse light s/w harness along the right side of the truck. The harness that emerges on the left side of the engine bay through the firewall will handle the a/c clutch, the temp. sender, tachometer pickup on the bell-housing, and the brake fluid warning switch. I think that covers it.
Tomorrow I'll try and do the fog lamp sub-harness.
Now that i have the wring diagram pretty much complete, it's mostly it's a matter of sorting out the terminal arrangements, and some types are easier to gut than others. The other battle is just keeping the mass of wires and terminals organized, as i have ripped apart 4 or 5 harnesses for parts and my shelves are overflowing.
well, since I got those pics from Rick D, you have filled in the chain of ownership. That was a keeper for sure! Let me know if you come across another and have a weak moment
I've been suffering from a dislocated rib since I did that work on the pillow block mount - no cause come to mind for the injury, other than the fact I'm over 40...
So, Ive been doing a little bit on the truck, mostly relating to the wiring. Here's a picture of my BJ60 fuse panel, which I went through, with the help of the FSM and identified the wires and their associations. I ended up with one unused fuse position, which is great. Once I had the fuse panel sorted, I was able to make a few small changes to my wiring diagram (which I will post up when I'm sure it will work down to the last detail) to reflect that.
Tonight I sorted out the wiring for the 70 series turn signals, which entailed pulling a couple of connectors out of the terminals and clicking in the connectors with correct wire color. I'm going to stick with the factory routing of the headlamp/turn signal/alternator/wiper motor/glow and start relays/rear lights/reverse light s/w harness along the right side of the truck. The harness that emerges on the left side of the engine bay through the firewall will handle the a/c clutch, the temp. sender, tachometer pickup on the bell-housing, and the brake fluid warning switch. I think that covers it.
Tomorrow I'll try and do the fog lamp sub-harness.
Now that i have the wring diagram pretty much complete, it's mostly it's a matter of sorting out the terminal arrangements, and some types are easier to gut than others. The other battle is just keeping the mass of wires and terminals organized, as i have ripped apart 4 or 5 harnesses for parts and my shelves are overflowing.
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The shop building where my truck is kept was unusable to me this afternoon as the power pole had keeled over, and it's hard to get much wiring done in total darkness. Maybe with Master Yoda training me, but I'm not there yet..
So, I brought the relay panel home and i.d. tagged the wires. I end up with two relay locations wired that won't be used, one was for the ignition relay (on a 60 series of course) and the other was for the heater relay. in addition to that, the cluster has room to instal another two relays. These would have been for the headlamp washer motor relay, and a charge lamp relay. i will wire up the charge lamp relay, as I included one in my wiring diagram design, but that still leaves me with some unused capacity.
It is nice to have the 60 series relay cluster, as now I will have factory headlamp and tail lamp relays, along of course with the intermittent wiper. In the second picture you can clearly see the relays. The green one is the flasher, the large square black one is the wiper relay, and the two cylindrical ones are the head lamp and tail lamp relays.
I decided to go with the 4-core radiator rebuild, with the good copper. The radiator guy said that aluminum rad cores are not field fixable for one thing, and not as durable as the copper ones. Since he does a lot of work on rads for commercial logging trucks, and has 35 years experience, I'll go with that.
It should be ready any day now.
I realize that a lot of the parts in this re-build are going to be good for a very long time. It's a lot of up front cost, but it's nice to know that from then on out, my cost should be confined mostly to maintenance, and I won't be worrying about what part is going to give out next (which is unfortunately the normal automotive experience of my life).
So, I brought the relay panel home and i.d. tagged the wires. I end up with two relay locations wired that won't be used, one was for the ignition relay (on a 60 series of course) and the other was for the heater relay. in addition to that, the cluster has room to instal another two relays. These would have been for the headlamp washer motor relay, and a charge lamp relay. i will wire up the charge lamp relay, as I included one in my wiring diagram design, but that still leaves me with some unused capacity.
It is nice to have the 60 series relay cluster, as now I will have factory headlamp and tail lamp relays, along of course with the intermittent wiper. In the second picture you can clearly see the relays. The green one is the flasher, the large square black one is the wiper relay, and the two cylindrical ones are the head lamp and tail lamp relays.
I decided to go with the 4-core radiator rebuild, with the good copper. The radiator guy said that aluminum rad cores are not field fixable for one thing, and not as durable as the copper ones. Since he does a lot of work on rads for commercial logging trucks, and has 35 years experience, I'll go with that.
It should be ready any day now.I realize that a lot of the parts in this re-build are going to be good for a very long time. It's a lot of up front cost, but it's nice to know that from then on out, my cost should be confined mostly to maintenance, and I won't be worrying about what part is going to give out next (which is unfortunately the normal automotive experience of my life).
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DanS HJ-45
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I like the way you think. I did the same on my faux-Hilux, and after driving all across the hinterlands and winterlands, I'm VERY glad I did. So nice having peace of mind, y'know?
Love it! The wiring is fascinating me, because my harness is just about nonexistent, and I really prefer Toyota stuff to all the aftermarket stuff I think... Keep documenting and photographing the harness please.
Dan
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More progress on the wiring. This time I tagged all the wires emanating from my steering column switches. In doing so, I discovered a minor goof up in my wiring diagram, and found that I will only have to change two of the wires for different colors to make it mesh with my fuse panel and relay bus. I'll swap the wires out tomorrow.
I tried posting up pictures, but now I find my attachment quota is full! I deleted a bunch of other attachments from other threads, but for some reason I am still over quota. And what happened to the silver star I bought last year? I thought it was good for a year, and now I can't even find where you buy a silver star. What gives?
That takes care of sorting the wires on the three clumps in the system. From here on out it will be a matter of connecting the dots and a lot of crimping, soldering, and sealing with shrink wrap.
I've been looking at steering wheel options. While Momo has some sweet wheels with leather grips, I can't find one from them that has enough dish. I measured the stock Landcruiser steering wheels I have, on from a 60 series and one from the 47, and both have 4'' dish. I have found a couple of options from Grant that will match that, and another Grant wheel that would total out at 4.75" dish when fitted. The diameter of that wheel is 14". The stock 60 wheel is 15.75", and the Toyota light truck steering wheel I have been using while fitting up the column is 15".
Anyone have any other steering wheel suggestions?
I tried posting up pictures, but now I find my attachment quota is full! I deleted a bunch of other attachments from other threads, but for some reason I am still over quota. And what happened to the silver star I bought last year? I thought it was good for a year, and now I can't even find where you buy a silver star. What gives?
That takes care of sorting the wires on the three clumps in the system. From here on out it will be a matter of connecting the dots and a lot of crimping, soldering, and sealing with shrink wrap.
I've been looking at steering wheel options. While Momo has some sweet wheels with leather grips, I can't find one from them that has enough dish. I measured the stock Landcruiser steering wheels I have, on from a 60 series and one from the 47, and both have 4'' dish. I have found a couple of options from Grant that will match that, and another Grant wheel that would total out at 4.75" dish when fitted. The diameter of that wheel is 14". The stock 60 wheel is 15.75", and the Toyota light truck steering wheel I have been using while fitting up the column is 15".
Anyone have any other steering wheel suggestions?
here you go Henry
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Well, that was helpful Strever. Thanks!
Here's the pics for my last post, showing the completed column, with the wires tagged and the a glimpse of the 5 pages of my wiring diagram
Here's the pics for my last post, showing the completed column, with the wires tagged and the a glimpse of the 5 pages of my wiring diagram
Check Toyota cars for a wheel. I have seen only a few good examples of 1980's Toyota cars. However, my friend has an 80 something Tercel. It shares many common Toyota components of the time. Most notably the steering column is very similar to a 60. Along with marker lights and such. I wonder if the wheel is any smaller or if it has the same spline count.
Just an idea, don't know what you have in the junk yards, but you could look.
Just an idea, don't know what you have in the junk yards, but you could look.
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Thanks MoCoNative,
I've been taking a look around the wrecking yards, hoping to find the right steering wheel, but so far no luck. I'll see if I can track down an '80 Tercel and see what that looks like. Half the battle is the wheel size, and the other is the wheel dish. A lot of the smaller wheels seems to have a shallow amount of dish, from what I've seen so far.
If I can't find the right Toyota wheel in about a 14" size with around 3~4" dish, then I'll have to go with something after-market.
I've been taking a look around the wrecking yards, hoping to find the right steering wheel, but so far no luck. I'll see if I can track down an '80 Tercel and see what that looks like. Half the battle is the wheel size, and the other is the wheel dish. A lot of the smaller wheels seems to have a shallow amount of dish, from what I've seen so far.
If I can't find the right Toyota wheel in about a 14" size with around 3~4" dish, then I'll have to go with something after-market.
2ndGenToyotaFan
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I can tell you that a mid 80s Supra wheel will fit in a 79-89 Toyota pickup/4Runner, so there's hope that the same spline count was used across models...
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I measured a '79 Celica Supra wheel today, and it is nearly are large as the BJ60 wheel at 15.5". I was surprised how large it was.
So, scratch that year and model anynow.
Some minor progress to report. I connected up the rubber intake hose that goes form the intake manifold to the air cleaner. I found that the hood slightly pressed on it when closed, so I while looking through my old cab support rubberized mounts, I found another 0.25" shim. I put that under the front left corner of the cab, now both front mounts have been shimmed the same, and the hood now clears the intake hose.
Puzzling a bit over the wiring ( a mild understatement). I had Dave Stedman at Japan4x4 run the numbers off my existing 47 series glow and starter relays, and only the starter relay is still available from Toyota. Given their age, and the likelihood they may fail in the near future, I am considering wiring up 60 series relays instead. This will mean a change to the wiring diagram I made, as the 60 series starter relays have fewer wires involved than the 47 series units.
Hopefully the BJ60 series starter and glow relays aren't obsolete from Toyota.
So, scratch that year and model anynow.
Some minor progress to report. I connected up the rubber intake hose that goes form the intake manifold to the air cleaner. I found that the hood slightly pressed on it when closed, so I while looking through my old cab support rubberized mounts, I found another 0.25" shim. I put that under the front left corner of the cab, now both front mounts have been shimmed the same, and the hood now clears the intake hose.
Puzzling a bit over the wiring ( a mild understatement). I had Dave Stedman at Japan4x4 run the numbers off my existing 47 series glow and starter relays, and only the starter relay is still available from Toyota. Given their age, and the likelihood they may fail in the near future, I am considering wiring up 60 series relays instead. This will mean a change to the wiring diagram I made, as the 60 series starter relays have fewer wires involved than the 47 series units.
Hopefully the BJ60 series starter and glow relays aren't obsolete from Toyota.
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Still puzzling over the wiring...
Here's some pictures of the re-cored 4-row radiator I just got back. Popped a new Toyota rad cap on and put it back into the rad mounting frame...
Here's some pictures of the re-cored 4-row radiator I just got back. Popped a new Toyota rad cap on and put it back into the rad mounting frame...
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...and the bugger lower hose inlet neck still won't clear the power steering pulley
No biggie - it really does need to go at a 45˚ angle to clear, so I took the rad back to the shop for further modification.
then I threw a fresh air filter into the air cleaner can and started thinking about how to make a duct for the air cleaner inlet.
No biggie - it really does need to go at a 45˚ angle to clear, so I took the rad back to the shop for further modification.
then I threw a fresh air filter into the air cleaner can and started thinking about how to make a duct for the air cleaner inlet.
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I found that a couple of 60 series defroster ducts did the trick. Now all i need if to make up a mounting bracket to hold it to the side vent, and some sort of funnel to direct the air. I wonder if a dryer duct outlet might have some application?
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Some advancement in the wiring department. I managed to get quite a bit of the front lighting harness, which includes the wires for both headlamps and turn signal/marker lamps, as well as the horns. You can see in the first pic that I am using the 60 series pattern of wire colors for the headlamps. In 40 series trucks, typically, the wires go from a 15a. headlamp fuse in the panel to the dimmer swithcto the lights are red-yellow for high beam and hi-beam indicator light, red-green for low beam, and white-black to ground.
In the 60 series, instead of the white-black returning to ground, the components are reversed in order, and the switch and hi beam indicator lamp are the outlets to ground. There are two separate 10a. fuses for left and right headlamps in the panel, and the wires from the fuses go directly to the lamps and then to the switch: red-white for left headlamp, and red-black for right headlamp. As with the 40 series, red-yellow and red-green come from the dimmer switch to control hi beam (red-yellow) and low (red-green).
I'm routing these wires along to the left hand side hole in the firewall for wiring. Seems to be the shortest distance between the points involved.
To connect wires, I strip the plastic sheath, interweave the wires, clean it with flux, then solder, then finish with a short length of shrink wrap tubing or tape. I then wrap the wires for a particular component together every 18" or so. Then I bundle the these sub-sections together, usually with zip ties at the moment. When every wire is laid and connected up, then I will wrap the harness in non-adhesive tape, followed by a wrap of electrical tape, and then put the works in some corrugated plastic casing. When i put the spade and terminal connections together, I apply a blob of di-electric grease to the metal parts before the final put-together.
In the 60 series, instead of the white-black returning to ground, the components are reversed in order, and the switch and hi beam indicator lamp are the outlets to ground. There are two separate 10a. fuses for left and right headlamps in the panel, and the wires from the fuses go directly to the lamps and then to the switch: red-white for left headlamp, and red-black for right headlamp. As with the 40 series, red-yellow and red-green come from the dimmer switch to control hi beam (red-yellow) and low (red-green).
I'm routing these wires along to the left hand side hole in the firewall for wiring. Seems to be the shortest distance between the points involved.
To connect wires, I strip the plastic sheath, interweave the wires, clean it with flux, then solder, then finish with a short length of shrink wrap tubing or tape. I then wrap the wires for a particular component together every 18" or so. Then I bundle the these sub-sections together, usually with zip ties at the moment. When every wire is laid and connected up, then I will wrap the harness in non-adhesive tape, followed by a wrap of electrical tape, and then put the works in some corrugated plastic casing. When i put the spade and terminal connections together, I apply a blob of di-electric grease to the metal parts before the final put-together.
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