Help with first start (1 Viewer)

[airon23]

I need help from someone who knows what they're doing...because I don't.
I've put it all back together but now can't seem to get it running. It was getting late last night so I didn't keep trying but I'm back at it again this morning and same result so far. I don't really know what I'm doing so if any of you would be able to help me virtually I would forever be grateful. I understand it might be hard not being here to see and hear everything happening in real time.

 

[kerplunk]

Don't forget to plug in the coil.

 

[Jdc1]

Most important thing is to make sure you have oil pressure.

 

[jmylie]

Check the fuel level in the carb. Are you getting fuel to flow to the carb?

Is the choke working?

How about spark? Pull a sparkplug and check for spark.

Did you set timing?

 

[kerplunk]

Assuming whatever you've done included pulling the distributor, have a timing line there and ready, dizzy hold down loose,ready to get it close. It's usually the first thing that needs attention.
I've never used a timing light just cranking on the starter before, but maybe it works?
If the carb was used before, on this engine before whatever work was done, or even on another, it's going to need some tuning. But as long as the bowl's filled with gas and it's not just completely fubar, it should still get the engine up to idle, maybe a little faster or slower than it should be, but it's a point to start tuning from. Whereas the timing, once the dizzy's been moved, it can easily be way too far out to start at all.

 

[Dizzy]

#1 tdc is confirmed by the valve lash, as two crank turns = one camshaft rotation.

 

[airon23]

Check the fuel level in the carb. Are you getting fuel to flow to the carb?

Is the choke working?

How about spark? Pull a sparkplug and check for spark.

Did you set timing?

I believe I have fuel in the carb.
I wasn't using the choke that time.
I don't know about spark and didn't have anyone to help me do this.
Not sure how to even set the timing.

 

[airon23]

Assuming whatever you've done included pulling the distributor, have a timing line there and ready, dizzy hold down loose,ready to get it close. It's usually the first thing that needs attention.
I've never used a timing light just cranking on the starter before, but maybe it works?
If the carb was used before, on this engine before whatever work was done, or even on another, it's going to need some tuning. But as long as the bowl's filled with gas and it's not just completely fubar, it should still get the engine up to idle, maybe a little faster or slower than it should be, but it's a point to start tuning from. Whereas the timing, once the dizzy's been moved, it can easily be way too far out to start at all.

This was probably my biggest concern about installing the distributor correctly.
The hold down was not seated all the way to the block when I put the bolt in, is this normal or should it slide all the way down to where the hold down is touching?
This distributor was used previously. I changed out the little points contact thing on the inside of the distributor.

 

[Jdc1]

I believe I have fuel in the carb.
I wasn't using the choke that time.
I don't know about spark and didn't have anyone to help me do this.
Not sure how to even set the timing.

Buried in my build thread, Jim C weighs in on how to set up the distributor to be very close for the first start up. I also used the FSM. This info was spot on and I haven’t had to check timing yet. I will once I put a few miles on it.

Another tip that he shared was to clean out the fuel line between the carb and pump. At the very least, you can spray carb cleaner down it and clear any junk that might have accumulated.

 

[airon23]

Most important thing is to make sure you have oil pressure.

Does this happen when just turning key to accessory or while cranking. The time I did look it was down to pretty low.

 

[airon23]

Buried in my build thread, Jim C weighs in on how to set up the distributor to be very close for the first start up. I also used the FSM. This info was spot on and I haven’t had to check timing yet. I will once I put a few miles on it.

Another tip that he shared was to clean out the fuel line between the carb and pump. At the very least, you can spray carb cleaner down it and clear any junk that might have accumulated.

Good tip haven't consulted the FSM on this yet. Why would anyone read the instructions?
All fuel lines are new and I do get fuel in the glass view.

When I turn it over with the choke on I hear some backfiring happen periodically.

 

[John McVicker]

After reading your post # 8 I would STOP. STOP.

If your distributor is not flush and seated all the way down you will not have oil circulating.

Get your distributor timing ‘close’ (does not have to be perfect), pour a little fuel in to the carb and turn the key. It should start...then verify oil pressure.

Once that’s sucessful...get back to us.

 

[Jdc1]

Good tip haven't consulted the FSM on this yet. Why would anyone read the instructions?
All fuel lines are new and I do get fuel in the glass view.

When I turn it over with the choke on I hear some backfiring happen periodically.

I had made all new fuel lines and still puked a bunch of crap into the carb.

Jim’s distributor tips go beyond the FSM and are pure gold. If I get a minute I’ll hunt it down and post.

 

[Travis 76]

You have to line up the oil pump slot with the distributor drive blade. Also take into about that the distributor turns a little as it goes in. Make sure the engine is at top dead center for cylinder #1. Both valve rockers will be loose in that arrangement, or if you don’t want to pull the valve cover pull the spark plug put your finger over the hole and turn the motor by hand. When you feel air pressure pushing out you will be on the compression stroke. When the piston is all the way up you will be at top dead center.

 

[kerplunk]

This was probably my biggest concern about installing the distributor correctly.
The hold down was not seated all the way to the block when I put the bolt in, is this normal or should it slide all the way down to where the hold down is touching?
This distributor was used previously. I changed out the little points contact thing on the inside of the distributor.

The MOST IMPORTANT part of installing the distributor correctly is getting that flat blade looking thing on the bottom of the distributor shaft correctly inserted into the OIL PUMP. This directly drives the oil pump, without that, no oil pressure, all the oil will sit in the pan and might as well be running without.

Look down into the hole and make sure the top of the drive for the oil pump is going to like up with the flat blade on the bottom of the distributor drive. If it's off, put a screwdriver down there and turn the oil pump drive. It needs to fall right into place. If this isn't right, you will have no oil pressure. Even if you can't see into the hole, put a screwdriver in there and find the slot. (big screwdriver, like 1/2 inch wide blade).

And, about oil pressure, it's purely mechanical with that pump being driven by the distributor shaft. But, it should build within seconds, like 2 or 3 seconds, almost instantly, once the engine is running, should register solidly on the gauge as soon as it's idling. There will be some just from cranking it with the starter, but maybe not enough to see movement on the gauge.

 

[Steamer]

Just to add a little to the previous good advice. If you are at TDC on “compression”, you can build pressure by adding air through the spark plug hole of #1 cyl. If it’s on TDC “exhaust” you cannot build pressure since a valve will be open. You can add pressure several ways, even with a snug fitting rubber hose and blowing into it.

Stabbing the distributor just right sometimes happens on the 1st or 2nd try and sometimes it can be really frustrating and might require a break and then come back to try again.

 

[airon23]

After reading your post # 8 I would STOP. STOP.

If your distributor is not flush and seated all the way down you will not have oil circulating.

Get your distributor timing ‘close’ (does not have to be perfect), pour a little fuel in to the carb and turn the key. It should start...then verify oil pressure.

Once that’s sucessful...get back to us.

You have to line up the oil pump slot with the distributor drive blade. Also take into about that the distributor turns a little as it goes in. Make sure the engine is at top dead center for cylinder #1. Both valve rockers will be loose in that arrangement, or if you don’t want to pull the valve cover pull the spark plug put your finger over the hole and turn the motor by hand. When you feel air pressure pushing out you will be on the compression stroke. When the piston is all the way up you will be at top dead center.

The MOST IMPORTANT part of installing the distributor correctly is getting that flat blade looking thing on the bottom of the distributor shaft correctly inserted into the OIL PUMP. This directly drives the oil pump, without that, no oil pressure, all the oil will sit in the pan and might as well be running without.

Look down into the hole and make sure the top of the drive for the oil pump is going to like up with the flat blade on the bottom of the distributor drive. If it's off, put a screwdriver down there and turn the oil pump drive. It needs to fall right into place. If this isn't right, you will have no oil pressure. Even if you can't see into the hole, put a screwdriver in there and find the slot. (big screwdriver, like 1/2 inch wide blade).

And, about oil pressure, it's purely mechanical with that pump being driven by the distributor shaft. But, it should build within seconds, like 2 or 3 seconds, almost instantly, once the engine is running, should register solidly on the gauge as soon as it's idling. There will be some just from cranking it with the starter, but maybe not enough to see movement on the gauge.

Man thanks for all the replies and warnings against me doing some damage to the motor. That's the last thing I want to do.

This is some good advice and I will not do anything else until I make sure

1. Remove distributor
2. I'm at top dead center before putting distributor by removing valve cover
3. Make sure distributor lines up with oil pump (I thought I did this when I placed it in, I could even feel it slide and turn with the gears from the cam but again it wasn't completely seated to the block, the hold down was raised maybe 1/4 inch.)
4. Once I'm sure it's seated correctly, bolt it down
5. Make sure fuel in carb
6. Then I can crank it over

The other thing I was concerned about was vacuum as I've removed several smog components. I would think that wouldn't prevent it from starting but rather make it run rough.

 

[Pighead]

I have a different way of seating the dizzy to the oil pump. I line up the gears the way I want, then, with the cap on the dizzy, I stand on the tire, lean over and put one hand on the cap, putting a fair amount of weight on it...with my other hand I jump the contacts on the starter motor. Motor turns over, cam turns dizzy shaft and dizzy falls down into oilpump slot. You can feel the dizzy slide down that last half inch and hear a good thunk as it seats.

 

[kerplunk]

Getting to top dead center has always been a challenge for me. Don't expect to be right on. Get close enough and be ready to tune once it starts.

I'd leave the dizzy clamp loose enough to turn it and adjust. Sometimes, have someone else in it cranking while moving the dizzy back and forth a couple degrees a second to find a spot where it starts, and then put the timing light on it.

But it absolutely needs to be solidly down against the block. The only thing that should be preventing that is the oil pump, and this needs to be in place. When you line the slot in the pump with the blade on the shaft remember that the cam gear is gonna spin it about 15 degrees as it falls into the hole, before the blade on the dizzy shaft falls into the oil pump drive.

 

[1911]

This is some good advice and I will not do anything else until I make sure
...
I'm at top dead center

Top Dead Center on the compression stroke of #1 cyl, NOT top dead center on the exhaust stroke.