Help with AirCon, Cooking, and Solar please! (1 Viewer)

[Joe45]

Hello!
I am trying to plan my air conditioner setup but I just don;t get electricity with the amps etc. People have explained it, but I just don't get it. Any help is appreciated.


Looking at the under-mount AC (12V), which states:

"System running 100% with 90°F Ambient Temperature = 1100Watts. (78A @ 14V)".

Since there are places that can get 110 and up, I'd like a little better, but I don;t even know how that works.

Also, I would be charging camera batteries, using a laptop (Maybe a monitor) and sometimes cooking with a small air fryer (1,000 watts?).
The AC would run while I am driving and also parked for a few days.
I could always shut off the AC when using the fryer, but would rather be able not to.
May also get a silent generator, but would rather not depend on it.

Have considered the Travel Buddy Oven since it's 12V, but have heard it takes a good two hours or so to cook, but that isn't necessarily bad. The air fryer, I was told, does cook a little crispier.

I am trying to determine what battery/solar setup I would need to run the above system. I would use it to cool both the camper box and the cab on my HJ45 (took out the aftermarket AC). My calculations suck and I am pretty much lost.

Input much appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[LandLocked93]

Hello!
I am trying to plan my air conditioner setup but I just don;t get electricity with the amps etc. People have explained it, but I just don't get it. Any help is appreciated.


Looking at the under-mount AC (12V), which states:

"System running 100% with 90°F Ambient Temperature = 1100Watts. (78A @ 14V)".

Since there are places that can get 110 and up, I'd like a little better, but I don;t even know how that works.

Also, I would be charging camera batteries, using a laptop (Maybe a monitor) and sometimes cooking with a small air fryer (1,000 watts?).
The AC would run while I am driving and also parked for a few days.
I could always shut off the AC when using the fryer, but would rather be able not to.
May also get a silent generator, but would rather not depend on it.

Have considered the Travel Buddy Oven since it's 12V, but have heard it takes a good two hours or so to cook, but that isn't necessarily bad. The air fryer, I was told, does cook a little crispier.

I am trying to determine what battery/solar setup I would need to run the above system. I would use it to cool both the camper box and the cab on my HJ45 (took out the aftermarket AC). My calculations suck and I am pretty much lost.

Input much appreciated!

Thank you!

I can tell you that anything requiring 78amps to run is a power hog. That demand can only be met for any respectable amount of time with the engine running the entire time (hinted at by the spec of 14V, which is only attainable with the engine running). This is not a sustainable situation anywhere outside of an RV park which likely has what they call 'shore power' - a 110V outlet to plug in to.

The air fryer is a bit less of a hog, tho still requires an inverter to convert the 12V to 110V into which the fryer would plug. 1000 watts thru an inverter is nearly as big a deal as that A/C unit running on 12V because the current @ 12V remains in the 65Amp region. Plus some loss in the inversion process.

You could consider getting these devices in 24V form and running a 24V system to power it. This will half the current required to run the devices but will demand a doubling of current storage (batteries). But it also halves the cabling size requirement which, depending on your appetite for voltage drop can save hundreds in wiring costs.

I went this route in my 80 for the sake of runtime. All non-OEM devices are 24V and run off the 24V batt bank in the rear. Yes it can be argued there is no advantage in doing so. I would disagree, tho only after having run this setup for a couple years now.

 

[Joe45]

I can tell you that anything requiring 78amps to run is a power hog. That demand can only be met for any respectable amount of time with the engine running the entire time (hinted at by the spec of 14V, which is only attainable with the engine running). This is not a sustainable situation anywhere outside of an RV park which likely has what they call 'shore power' - a 110V outlet to plug in to.

The air fryer is a bit less of a hog, tho still requires an inverter to convert the 12V to 110V into which the fryer would plug. 1000 watts thru an inverter is nearly as big a deal as that A/C unit running on 12V because the current @ 12V remains in the 65Amp region. Plus some loss in the inversion process.

You could consider getting these devices in 24V form and running a 24V system to power it. This will half the current required to run the devices but will demand a doubling of current storage (batteries). But it also halves the cabling size requirement which, depending on your appetite for voltage drop can save hundreds in wiring costs.

I went this route in my 80 for the sake of runtime. All non-OEM devices are 24V and run off the 24V batt bank in the rear. Yes it can be argued there is no advantage in doing so. I would disagree, tho only after having run this setup for a couple years now.

I'm not doubting you, just confused. I see people saying they're running a mini-split in their campervan. What am I missing?





I have thought of also using a quiet generator as backup, but from the above, it doesn't seem to be needed.

 

[peesalot]

A large battery or group of batteries, and as much solar as you can get on the roof. IMO cooling is a power draw and will tax the system, a tri fuel super quiet gen would work best and that wont run a 110 ac so you are still working with a 12v unit which the gen would run easy and supply a say 10amp 110 which would run your air fryer too.

 

[Joe45]

A large battery or group of batteries, and as much solar as you can get on the roof. IMO cooling is a power draw and will tax the system, a tri fuel super quiet gen would work best and that wont run a 110 ac so you are still working with a 12v unit which the gen would run easy and supply a say 10amp 110 which would run your air fryer too.

Have been looking at lithium batteries: very light and hold a lot of juice.

The AC would serve as my driving AC, and then also when I park and go inside somewhere, since I have two dogs.
I would use the AC during the day sometimes, if it's hot, and maybe at night-if it's hot. Generally, when camping, I prefer the fresh air unless, again, it's really hot or its muggy and humid.
I live in Arizona, and enjoy the Southwest. Ideally I would avoid the lower elevations and desert during the summer months.

These people in the video seem to be doing it on solar, so I don't get it. Maybe they have huge battery banks?
But again, I'm listening and hoping to learn.

 

[peesalot]

The other consideration is duty cycle, batteries will take a beating if the A/C system draws it to zero over & over. Key info missing from this discussion is what A/C unit you are focusing on, whats the specs on that unit, once you settle on that you can begin to design a system that will do what you want.

 

[Joe45]

The other consideration is duty cycle, batteries will take a beating if the A/C system draws it to zero over & over. Key info missing from this discussion is what A/C unit you are focusing on, whats the specs on that unit, once you settle on that you can begin to design a system that will do what you want.

Yes, true. I would have to make sure the batteries don;t get drained to zero constantly.

Here's some info that will hopefully help:

The AC units I am looking at have the following ratings:
Unit 1: System running 100% with 90°F Ambient Temperature = 1100Watts. (78A @ 14V)
Unit 2: 12 Volts 750 Watts.

Someone suggested a 24 volt setup.
The information for that unit is: System running 100% with 90°F Ambient Temperature = 1100Watts. (39A @ 28V)

The Air Conditioner will mainly be used to cool the camper box and the cab while the vehicle is running.
I have two dogs, so would run the AirCon if I parked somewhere and can't take the dogs inside with me. About the area of a van.

Camping I would not use the AC all the time: only if it is too hot or muggy. Would use the heater in winter, but also have a diesel heater.

I can also use a small silent generator, but would rather not depend on it.

COOKING
The air fryer is 1,000 watts, but that's only for cooking, obviously, and if necessary I can turn off the AC while using it.
Another option is to use something like the Travel Buddy oven, which is 12 Volts, 120 Watts, 10 Amps. This would only be used while driving/with engine running.

OTHER

• Laptop (this can vary as the laptop has a battery)
• Monitor
• Charging camera batteries.
• Water pump when taking a shower.
• Radio/speakers (mainly while driving)

 

[e9999]

IMO, you should do a bit of reading about DC systems and basic electricity. This is easy stuff once you look at it in an organized manner and start fresh. There are only 2 or 3 minor formulas (like multiply 2 quantities together), this is not rocket science. After you have a better feel for it, you can just figure out how much power and energy you need to run your devices and then size the solar system / battery to provide that. Having said that, though, the impression I get is that you are talking about a very demanding application that seems to be outside of the norm for "regular" solar / battery systems. The basic issue is that you are going a draw a great deal of power, that a normal size truck solar system can't readily provide, so you'll have to depend on batteries to do that, and that may be costly / difficult to do. Sounds a bit unrealistic TBH, especially if you are not familar with this type of work.

 

[peesalot]

You may want to look at a 110 A/c and an inverter, coupled with a batt or batts and 300+ watts of solar.
Just to compare, dont know which style is more efficient but would be worth doing the math.
You need all that math to determine batt size & cap & how much solar.
I believe there are propane cooler units as well and a dual system might work, elec when vehicle running, propane when not.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Running an appliance that draws 78amps is... in a word, insane.

For example, most typical RVs have lead acid batteries that have a capacities of around 100ah (amp-hours). With lead-acid batteries, only approximately 50% of the capacity is useable before the battery's voltage drops too low and the appliance shuts off. This means that you have 50ah useable, and your AC will kill the battery in 38 minutes.

If you get a lithium battery you'll have more useable capacity (voltage drop comes much, much later), but it still won't be enough. 100ah of lithium, assuming 95% useable capacity (95ah) will get you: 95ah / 78a * 60 minutes = 73 minutes of runtime. Even if you triple that (VERY expensive) you'd be out of juice in ~2.5 hours.

Relying on that battery-powered AC to keep your camper cool while your dogs are inside and unsupervised is a recipe for dogs dying from heat. Do not do it.

If you want to run the AC with any sort of reliability, you need to be hooked up to shore power, or have a generator running. And it won't be anywhere near silent - even the quietest 2000W Honda generator makes a ton of noise (had one!).

--

I'll add that if you have to have AC and an Air Fryer, backcountry camping is not for you. Stick to RV parks or hotel rooms. If you're going into the backcountry, you'll have to compromise on creature comforts.

 

[Joe45]

IMO, you should do a bit of reading about DC systems and basic electricity. This is easy stuff once you look at it in an organized manner and start fresh. There are only 2 or 3 minor formulas (like multiply 2 quantities together), this is not rocket science. After you have a better feel for it, you can just figure out how much power and energy you need to run your devices and then size the solar system / battery to provide that. Having said that, though, the impression I get is that you are talking about a very demanding application that seems to be outside of the norm for "regular" solar / battery systems. The basic issue is that you are going a draw a great deal of power, that a normal size truck solar system can't readily provide, so you'll have to depend on batteries to do that, and that may be costly / difficult to do. Sounds a bit unrealistic TBH, especially if you are not familar with this type of work.

Yeah I think you're right.
Right now I am trying to gather as much information as I can to plan the build, and in the electric subject I am totally ignorant.

 

[Joe45]

You may want to look at a 110 A/c and an inverter, coupled with a batt or batts and 300+ watts of solar.
Just to compare, dont know which style is more efficient but would be worth doing the math.
You need all that math to determine batt size & cap & how much solar.
I believe there are propane cooler units as well and a dual system might work, elec when vehicle running, propane when not.

I'm looking at all the options, so thanks.

 

[Joe45]

Running an appliance that draws 78amps is... in a word, insane.

For example, most typical RVs have lead acid batteries that have a capacities of around 100ah (amp-hours). With lead-acid batteries, only approximately 50% of the capacity is useable before the battery's voltage drops too low and the appliance shuts off. This means that you have 50ah useable, and your AC will kill the battery in 38 minutes.

If you get a lithium battery you'll have more useable capacity (voltage drop comes much, much later), but it still won't be enough. 100ah of lithium, assuming 95% useable capacity (95ah) will get you: 95ah / 78a * 60 minutes = 73 minutes of runtime. Even if you triple that (VERY expensive) you'd be out of juice in ~2.5 hours.

Relying on that battery-powered AC to keep your camper cool while your dogs are inside and unsupervised is a recipe for dogs dying from heat. Do not do it.

If you want to run the AC with any sort of reliability, you need to be hooked up to shore power, or have a generator running. And it won't be anywhere near silent - even the quietest 2000W Honda generator makes a ton of noise (had one!).

--

I'll add that if you have to have AC and an Air Fryer, backcountry camping is not for you. Stick to RV parks or hotel rooms. If you're going into the backcountry, you'll have to compromise on creature comforts.

Thanks for that information.
I wouldn't leave the dogs in the vehicle unless I was totally sure that there's ample juice to keep the AC running. Even then, I would use an app alarm to alert me on my phone if either the temperature goes up a few degrees or the AC stops working. I do appreciate your comment about not risking it with the dogs.

So far it seems I have two options if I need to leave the dogs with the AC running:
1. Leave the cruiser running for power.
2. Run a silent generator.

Main use of the AC would be while driving anyway.

I think I've given the wrong impression. I would like to have that AC capability for times that the heat gets too much, or if its particularly muggy (like if I'm in the South) particularly for sleeping- but it's not a deal breaker. I have been camping most of my life and, even in vehicles, did it with basic camping gear and a tent. Just saw people doing this in their camper vans and thought it would be pretty cool.
Most of the time I would choose to enjoy they natural air.

As far as the air fryer, I was just looking at the Travel Buddy and some people saying a $50 air fryer works as well or better in a fraction of the time. But I see the cost is really in the amount of energy needed.
When I camped out of my little Jeep, I'd wrap my meal in tin foil and, when getting close to camp time, pull over and place it on the exhaust manifold. By the time I pulled in and set camp, the meal was piping hot. So taking that into account, I think the Travel Buddy oven would be a huge step up in the luxury department without the ridiculous power draw.

 

[peesalot]

FWIW a 700w microwave on a 1,000w inverter ran off dual batts with 150w solar works, its a short duty cycle as well. Don't know if a fryer, longer cycle would perform.

 

[LandLocked93]

Is this the troopy version of the HJ45? And guessing it's not insulated in any way?
The female is in a much larger van with 300aHrs of current storage. That is ALOT of lithium (and ALOT of $$$)
Her unit uses 44aHrs of current per hour of runtime. Which is also ALOT.
Just for comparison, the typical 50quart fridge uses about 1.2 - 1.5aHrs per hour (once cooled to temperature).

My opinion is that whatever you decide to go with it will require a bit of a dance between engine runtime and solar assistance to keep the batteries topped up for the times the engine is not running and the sun is not shining.

The other devices you have listed will add to the storage requirement, but maybe only 20aHrs or so required between the charge times, either by engine or solar.

Also, not sure you could get 300watts of solar onboard. Maybe 150 to 200?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Thanks for that information.
I wouldn't leave the dogs in the vehicle unless I was totally sure that there's ample juice to keep the AC running. Even then, I would use an app alarm to alert me on my phone if either the temperature goes up a few degrees or the AC stops working. I do appreciate your comment about not risking it with the dogs.

So far it seems I have two options if I need to leave the dogs with the AC running:
1. Leave the cruiser running for power.
2. Run a silent generator.

Main use of the AC would be while driving anyway.

I think I've given the wrong impression. I would like to have that AC capability for times that the heat gets too much, or if its particularly muggy (like if I'm in the South) particularly for sleeping- but it's not a deal breaker. I have been camping most of my life and, even in vehicles, did it with basic camping gear and a tent. Just saw people doing this in their camper vans and thought it would be pretty cool.
Most of the time I would choose to enjoy they natural air.

As far as the air fryer, I was just looking at the Travel Buddy and some people saying a $50 air fryer works as well or better in a fraction of the time. But I see the cost is really in the amount of energy needed.
When I camped out of my little Jeep, I'd wrap my meal in tin foil and, when getting close to camp time, pull over and place it on the exhaust manifold. By the time I pulled in and set camp, the meal was piping hot. So taking that into account, I think the Travel Buddy oven would be a huge step up in the luxury department without the ridiculous power draw.

I'd suggest a third option: a pair of good fans, like the MaxxAir. With good air flow (ie. correct positioning for your setup, open windows for proper air movement) they will make a significant difference in comfort. I have just one in my small trailer and it makes a world of difference.

 

[Joe45]

FWIW a 700w microwave on a 1,000w inverter ran off dual batts with 150w solar works, its a short duty cycle as well. Don't know if a fryer, longer cycle would perform.

I'm leaning heavily on the side of the Travel Buddy oven. 12Volts and I think 10 Amps. It's designed to use while driving.

 

[Joe45]

Is this the troopy version of the HJ45? And guessing it's not insulated in any way?
The female is in a much larger van with 300aHrs of current storage. That is ALOT of lithium (and ALOT of $$$)
Her unit uses 44aHrs of current per hour of runtime. Which is also ALOT.
Just for comparison, the typical 50quart fridge uses about 1.2 - 1.5aHrs per hour (once cooled to temperature).

My opinion is that whatever you decide to go with it will require a bit of a dance between engine runtime and solar assistance to keep the batteries topped up for the times the engine is not running and the sun is not shining.

The other devices you have listed will add to the storage requirement, but maybe only 20aHrs or so required between the charge times, either by engine or solar.

Also, not sure you could get 300watts of solar onboard. Maybe 150 to 200?

It's the pickup truck. I am building a lightweight camper on the back with a pop-up sleeping area. Both the camper and the cab of the HJ will be getting substantial insulation.

I may use a couple of solar panels oon the camper roof supplemented by a couple of solar blankets.

 

[Joe45]

I'd suggest a third option: a pair of good fans, like the MaxxAir. With good air flow (ie. correct positioning for your setup, open windows for proper air movement) they will make a significant difference in comfort. I have just one in my small trailer and it makes a world of difference.

Yeah that's a good idea. The AC is mainly for driving, but again, on a hot summer, I wouldn't want to leave the dogs in there even with those fans only. I can always run the engine/use a generator I guess, unless I can afford a bunch of those super light Lithium batteries!

 

[peesalot]

Why would you have a hard time getting 300w of solar on the roof ? The op stated he was building a pop up style camper and that roof would easily accomodate 300w of panels, if you were refering to a 45 cab roof, then yes, 300w of solar would cover the whole thing.