Help me understand the appeal. (3 Viewers)

[AnyMal]

Hey guys,

Mal here, been out of pocket for a hot minute. Sorry, ive been really dealing with a lot personally.

I kind of need to get a sanity check though, can you remind me why I purchased this vehicle?
Is this platform really that reliable anymore?

This is my first go around "long term outlook ownership model" type s***, and im kind of already over it.
So, this is really the first time ive decided to take care of my own "investment" and wrench at home.
Ive learned an aweful lot, but I guess i now understand why mechanics dont work on their own vehicles...
Ive "seen behind the curtain", ive "seen how the sausage is made" and well, at this point kind of think i made a mistake.

I just dont understand the reputation of this platform being what it is, and an entire forum filled nothing but s*** going wrong on everyones truck.
Maybe this is a 200 thing? Has the hallmark LC gone the way of everything else?

I mean, everyone here is dealing with failures that i see every other make dealing with.

Starters, alternators, belts, pulleys, every manner of leak, suspension and front end components wearing at the exact same rate as the rest of the brands, interior issues, radiators blowing, engines sludging, chain slap and guides failing, wheel bearings, AC blower motors, and just about everything else every other vehicle deals with.
I think the only truly reliable component is the transmission if I'm being completely honest.

Am i missing something here? I feel like im just realizing I drank the ****ing coolaid myself, and im the biggest T hater on the forum as it was...

Im honestly questioning why i thought this car would be a wise choice but between the constant maintenance and the amount you spend on fuel I just dont get it anymore.
Over the course of the life of the truck, lets say 10 years of ownership, you have spent enough on the extra fuel alone to pay for a full engine replacement in a range rover. Twice over.

Can any of you help me off the ledge here?
For what i paid to be in a "dinosaur" of a truck, i could have bought a brand new Tahoe Z71 and still had the same overall longevity and most of the resale value.
Yes, they are bending rods out of the lot, but this is a gen 1 type of thing, which all makes deal with.
Just look at the new tundra reports if any fanboys on MUD are upset at the above.

Seriously about to go back to just leasing cars and not worrying about every tiny detail such as hand washing only.
Never mind the possibility of getting wrecked by an 82 yr old blind as a bat incompent old lady that blew through a stop in Houston and nearly totaled my M4.
Imagine if that were this truck, that ive put so much love and care and man hours into, just to be wiped out in a second.
Id be devastated. And insurance would hand me a equivalent used POS with god knows what history bc the price is equivalent on paper.

I just dont think this actually makes any sense, and since i know there are some prominent old heads here, i want to hear your take on this and get your honest unbiased advice, if at all possible.
If youve owned old trucks and kept them, or have fleet experience, or just want to hold my hand and tell me its ok, im all ears.

Mods please dont throw this post out, its a technical discussion, not a rant.
And thanks.

 

[tbisaacs]

I'm just a stranger on the internet and we've obviously never met but you seem pretty particular—and I dont mean that as a slight. More like a guy who is clear about what he wont compromise on. I do wonder if the grass would truly be greener for you though. I've owned GM and never again, but that's my experience. They certainly sell a lot of vehicles.

I will say that forums tend to be echo chambers. For every 1 post here about a problem there are a gazillion on the road that dont have them. As far as this platform, I find that the Tundra forums are way more representative of how widespread issues actually are. There are so many more 3UR Sequoias and Tundras.

2-cents. Not going to try to talk you out of it, it's an intensely personal decision.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Definitely not the first time I've seen you having troubles with your truck - I feel for you. I really think you got the short end of the stick and ended up with some sort of lemon.

For contrast, in the 4+ years I've had my LX, the only non-maintenance item that needed to be repaired was a squeaky belt. (Outside of the mechanic-caused AHC fiasco.) It has been problem free, and is as quiet at 108k km as it was when I picked it up at 38k km.

With regards to seeing many threads with problems... if you go to a hospital, all you'll find is sick people. This is the #1 place enthusiasts go to in order to get help with something, and a disproportionate number of such threads is inevitable. I'd bet the vast majority of 200-series owners have never even searched for a forum like this because their vehicles are problem free and don't require it.

With all that said, I know from personal experience that when I decide I'm not happy with my vehicle (for whatever reason), the only course of action is to replace it with something else. For me, that itch does not go away. Hope you find something that works for you!

 

[CharlieS]

Sounds like you have had a very different kind of ownership experience. Every Toyota I've owned (and especially the Land Cruisers) have been dead reliable. I've had one failure in all of my Toyotas which was a fuel pump ECU at 100K miles on a 2013 Land Cruiser. Every American car and truck I've owned has been the exact opposite from a reliability and durability standpoint. European cars in my past were great, but costly to own and maintain.

 

[AnyMal]

Thanks y'all.

Its not that I'm exactly having a disaster of a time, but Im asking myself why I'm pre planning thousands of $ in preventative maintenance on the worlds most reliable truck. As far as forum confirmation bias, i totally get it.

But lets face it, my radiator WILL blow. It already was hairline cracked at like 55k. @bloc has seen it himself. Lexus refuses to acknowledge the problem until it fails.
My starter WILL go out, and since im now friends with the master tech at Lexus Austin, and get to speak to him "off record" he can confirm for me by 120k, that it will absolutely happen. He drives a DuraMax... and has owned multiple Tundras in the past.

My engine will definitely develop coolant leaks as well.
Theres a chance it wont happen, but to be honest, its the absence of the peace of mind i thought i had that is bothering me now.
Its not just the cost either, its the amount of time spent caring for it that I wont get back.

And yes @tbisaacs im a special kind of obsessive lol.

I think maybe my mistake wasn't really the choice of Truck, but buying a relatively newer model.
I can see where getting a huge discount on a 5-10 year old T truck and using it hard for another 5-10 makes sense.

But right now im trying to think through dropping $10k + on a supercharger and RTT system, and my heart is just not in it anymore.
I have to feel like i can really get another 10 years out of this, "trouble free".
My bar isnt exactly lease level of trouble free, or even like the old "only done oil changes" adage that is repeated ad-nauseam.
But I kind of expected more than this.

For example my driver side mirror is wobbly as hell inside the housing, and the passenger is tight, but Lexus does not give two s***s about it.
It shakes with music to a blur, and the other does not. It will eventually fail, and it will cost at least $800.

My overarching point is that if i keep this for 15 years, with a full decade being paid off, the amount of "reliability tax" in fuel spent would buy me a new car mid way through. Im not in a financial bind, but if the new normal gas prices remain, this will only make less sense overtime.

Keep the comments coming, it does help to hear from familiar faces.

 

[Zill]

A large part of the appeal for me is the vehicle feels like a bank vault on wheels, and if you ever get T-Boned, you will most likely leave an accident in one piece. Your life (and family) is priceless, and moving such a large amount of mass requires additional energy (fuel) and that small increase in fuel expense is worth it.

You get near Rolls Royce level of vehicle heft with the reliability of a Toyota.

Modern cars are going down the tubes for design standards due to mandated EPA emission standards, and there really isn’t much left on the market to choose from which fits this role. Enjoy this platform while you still can…

 

[residualboulders]

Sorry to hear you've been having issues. You bring up many good points as to why the Lexus maybe doesn't make sense - cost, outdated tech and bad fuel consumption to name a few. If you've had many issues and your heart is not in it, trade it in on the Rover or whatever gets you excited. I don't know you, but kinda sounds like it bothers you enough maybe it would be a relief to move on? You should love what you drive, especially at the cost of these rigs.

For a little perspective, (and I might be speaking for myself here) I think many of us on this forum just enjoy the Land Cruiser for what it is. We know they are old tech in a lot of ways. But we love the way they are built and how they perform in the environments we use them. I actually enjoy some of the maintenance and mods too - a nice break from my desk job. I bought my first cruiser at 16 for $4000 and have been driving them since. You could say I'm a little biased. I know there are other cool options out there, but for some reason I just love my Land Cruisers. My neighbor once asked me why I have several LCs - he thought it made no sense because I could only drive one car. I told him I really liked his wake boat and mentioned it sure seemed like he had a lot of fun when he took it out. He agreed, said his Dad had one when he was a kid. He was so glad he bought one because he's creating similar memories with his kids in it. I told him the Land Cruisers were my boat, then he understood.

I have to admit when I drive my wife's deluxe X5 I'm enamored with all the cool tech, lighting, massaging seats and fine finishes. And of course the speed and performance of that car is amazing. I love it. But when I get back into my 200 it just puts a smile on my face.

 

[grinchy]

This is the #1 place enthusiasts go to in order to get help with something, and a disproportionate number of such threads is inevitable

This here is the truth.

Modern automobiles are made up of 1000s of skus. Failure is inevitable on some of them. I suspect because of how we use the trucks, we're more picky than most. I also guess some who bought new and see $100k sitting in their driveway might have different expectations.

As for me, the only time the truck wouldn't drive was a dead battery (old, my fault for not verifying on my new to me truck), and I ran it out of gas (doh!). But I spend a reasonable amount of time trying to anticipate what might break and keeping on top of regular maintenance.

Someday I'll have to replace the radiator (patched), the heater T (in my toolbox), and the water pump (with the radiator). Nothing lasts for ever.

239500 miles this week.

 

[TeCKis300]

Pay to play. Having been playing with cars for a long time, maybe some perspective can help.

Many times, it costs a lot more just to play a bit more. Throwing money at something oftentimes doesn't solve problems.

I pay for the 200-series because there's nothing comparable. Not the older 100/80-series, and definitely not from other manufactures that have this level of well rounded capability, capacity, and general reliability. The capability stands out everytime I go out to play with my buddies that have equally as expensive rigs from other makes.

I wouldn't mistake that to mean it's simple and durable, because the level of complexity under the hood to bring this level of capability and refinement took a lot of components and complexity to get there.

It's a ~$100k car. The commensurate maintenance costs is not going to be Rav4 levels of cheap. Everything wears and takes maintenance. Yet don't overdo it as changing AHC fluid 3x by 60k can be just as absurb and invite opportunities to screw things up.

If you're balking at standard overhead costs for this car, modifying it won't make things cheaper or more reliable. It can be a slippery slope in costs and incidentals for mods.

As others have said, if your paying for something that's not satisfying your needs or expectectations, maybe it's time to look elsewhere. At least at this price level, you have lots of choices.

 

[05ls430518]

I get what your saying but you will hear more about the bad stuff than positive. Some one does a good job you tell one person someone messes up you are gonna tell 20 people. I feel the info you are seeing is slightly skewed towards the negative because usually people post when there having an issue not when things are good.

I have to say as someone who came from Lexus's LS platforms this is a truck version of it, it's just smooth, minimal issues, and is not something I dread sitting in traffic in.

The only issues I have had is had to replace the tensioner, serp belt, and pulley because of slight screech for 10 second on cold starts on 20°F and below days. That and the amp is finicky and may die at any moment, but that is normal Lexus mark levinson nonsense.

I feel like your at the point were you only see the headaches it gives you and not the good. Kinda like when one of your kids is just messes up hard an you ponder adoption or if having kids was the right thing lol

 

[lx200inAR]

Ditto on all the above posts.

It sounds like you are saying you bought a truck to care for and maintain yourself, but you don't enjoy caring for and maintaining a vehicle yourself. I would argue that if you properly look after a 200 series it will reward you with years of relatively trouble-free miles as well as a place you will still want to sit for hours on end even after the odometer has past 100k or 200k miles. I suspect few people say the same thing about Tahoes. I was in a 6-7 yr old Tahoe Uber a few weeks ago in Dallas, and it was a s***box that I was legitimately worried was not going to get me to the airport. That same week I was in a brand new one and it was perfectly nice, but there is 0 chance I'd be keeping the 6-7yr old one if I had any other options.

The 200 series offers things that almost no other vehicles on the road now offer, including newer Toyotas. There's definitely a fuel mileage tax to drive one, but it's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

[linuxgod]

“My starter WILL go out, and since im now friends with the master tech at Lexus Austin, and get to speak to him "off record" he can confirm for me by 120k, that it will absolutely happen.”

I’m at 135k and no issues with my starter. Might go tomorrow, might last another 100k. It’s not a guarantee, as I’d argue 120k is probably the average life on the forum, not the max.

I’ve had a grand total of one repair that wasn’t self-inflicted. That was a $4 gas door spring. Literally every other failure was due to modifying things. Not saying your experience isn’t valid, just that anecdotally for every guy who has a valve spring drop and destroy an engine there are hundreds who do nothing but change their oil and have zero problems, but the guy with the failed valve spring monopolizes the forum discussion because that shouldn’t happen and we all are obsessed as to why.

Modern cars are failure ridden. Whatever your experience with your LC, if you think it’ll be better with a LR/RR you’re mistaken. Even a Tahoe you’re going to see way more issues after 100k than you’ll see in your entire LC life. My wife has a 2017 Mini as a city car and we’ve had more issues with it than all the Toyotas and Hondas I’ve owned over the last 20 years combined, and that car only has 42k miles… and we bought it with 33k.

If you’re unhappy with your truck, sell it and buy or lease something else. You’re not selling a Ferrari 250 - if you regret your decision you can find another

 

[residualboulders]

“My starter WILL go out, and since im now friends with the master tech at Lexus Austin, and get to speak to him "off record" he can confirm for me by 120k, that it will absolutely happen.”

I’m at 135k and no issues with my starter. Might go tomorrow, might last another 100k. It’s not a guarantee, as I’d argue 120k is probably the average life on the forum, not the max.

I’ve had a grand total of one repair that wasn’t self-inflicted. That was a $4 gas door spring. Literally every other failure was due to modifying things. Not saying your experience isn’t valid, just that anecdotally for every guy who has a valve spring drop and destroy an engine there are hundreds who do nothing but change their oil and have zero problems, but the guy with the failed valve spring monopolizes the forum discussion because that shouldn’t happen and we all are obsessed as to why.

Modern cars are failure ridden. Whatever your experience with your LC, if you think it’ll be better with a LR/RR you’re mistaken. Even a Tahoe you’re going to see way more issues after 100k than you’ll see in your entire LC life. My wife has a 2017 Mini as a city car and we’ve had more issues with it than all the Toyotas and Hondas I’ve owned over the last 20 years combined, and that car only has 42k miles… and we bought it with 33k.

If you’re unhappy with your truck, sell it and buy or lease something else. You’re not selling a Ferrari 250 - if you regret your decision you can find another

Ouch, that many problems with just 9k miles under your ownership? that's not good.

I know a guy that just bought a 2013 Range Rover. It is super clean and low miles and I have to admit a really nice car with more tech than a Landcruiser of the age would have. It was 120k new in 2013. He bought it for 13k. A clean low mile 2013 Landcruiser is still worth 35-50kish and they were high 70s new. There is a reason the depreciation is so much less on an LC.

 

[Fisher23]

Wow that was a long one.

 

[mcgaskins]

While I agree the 200 isn't quite as maintenance free as most people purport, in all of the issues I've experienced in 5 different 200s, none have left my stranded or affected drivability. I've preemptively replaced the radiator before it failed, had one timing chain tensioner that was very noisy and annoying (on cold starts only), one evap canister go bad which was the only check engine light I've ever seen on one of my Cruisers, and the rest has been normal maintenance any vehicle would need. I drive lots of cars for work including some very expensive high performance stuff, and there are almost none I'd prefer to own over the 200.

 

[shelby95]

Talk to somebody with a Range Rover. You’ll feel better in no time.

 

[VWEeplusa]

I've owned three 200's:

• a 2016 purchased new that I put 115K mi on before trading in for a new Range Rover (still regret it)
• a 1 owner 2013 purchased at 8 yrs old with 72,500mi. (just rolled 100K yesterday)
• a 2 owner 2015 purchased at 7 yrs old w 51,000mi. (keeping this one as more a collector car than driving)

I have experienced zero issues on all 3 outside of general maintenance. There are always outliers for sure, but in my experience, if you take care of them, they will love you back for a long long time.

 

[GordJ]

You failed to mention the leaky sunroof/cowl/windshield issue or the corroded connectors that result or the frozen KDSS nuts on LC's or the bad AHC juice on the LX.

 

[MikeVpdx503]

I purchased my 2013 five years ago and driven 38K miles since. Nearing 90K on the truck and have had to replace the radiator with a slight crack and then the fuel door spring, everything else is tires, batteries and fluids. I’ve owned several Honda and Ford SUVs over the years and usually drive them ~100K miles over 10-15 years with roughly the same amount of maintenance and repairs. None have been anywhere near as good condition after 90K miles as the Land Cruiser. I doubt the luxury brands would hold up much better so leasing might be a better option.

 

[doru]

When I got mine I made sure I read this forum first. I do the same with all my used car purchases. I research the weak points and the cost. If I find I do not like it I move on to a different vehicle. The price has to be affordable for me, mine was $39500. If I would have paid $60K or more for sure my perspective will be different. But at my price point I'm very happy with what I've got. Not because it was $100k new, but by comparing to other vehicles that I've got around the same price. The fact that people say it is reliable was reassuring, but I stil verified here that's the case. The radiator is no biggy, compared to so many other problems other cars have and this will be the 3rd radiator I've changed in my cars. I have it in my garage ready to be installed this spring, although my radiator is not cracked yet. The fact that is an old tech T is also reassuring to me as my experience with old T cars is excelent. The cost of parts is very low for this LX because of its twin the LC. If you are complaining about part cost go buy parts for EU cars to get a perspective.
I love how it rides, love the AHC!!!
Electronics could be better but I'm just listening to podcasts via BT or HD radio in my area. So I'm not really upset about it.
A navigation screen will be nice but I'm not willing to ditch my cameras to get a Tesla style screen. I know some do not like the cameras but I do love them.
I haven't mooded the truck and I really don't have any strong reasons to do that right now. An LC roof rack fixed the biggest issue for me. Next fall I'll get better tires. And in the summer I'll install the TRD BBK kit on front to make the brakes more as I like them. Other than that I don't see anything major needed for my curent life style. Maybe some skid plates to protect the cats from being stolen.
In some future there will be a LRA to increase range, after wife retires and we can be gone to the artic circle.
After years of project cars I'm content with a vehicle that I just drive.

P.S. oh yes the gas - I knew about it way before I got the truck. Not pleasant at the pump but it is a decision that I made.