matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
I used brackets from both, no need to make new, but I guess it depends where you can locate stuff.
Help me plan for a 2FE
- Thread starter RockDoc
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I used brackets from both, no need to make new, but I guess it depends where you can locate stuff.
- Thread starter
- #102
I'd like to be getting it all done, but it keeps getting shifted to the back burner for more pressing things (rust dealt with before the snow) and school. Realistically, I won't be able to install it till things warm up in the spring anyway, but I'd like to get it together on the stand through the winter. Pappy and Tonkota have excellent write ups and Matt's thread is full of great stuff too, if you are faster than me, I'm afraid I won't have too much to offer :whoops:
depending what my current mystery noise turns out to be mine might be on the back burner awhile also. and ive seen the other write ups i just figured a little taunting would help yah get going.
- Thread starter
- #104
Disassembled the piston/rod assemblies yesterday so I can clean and balance them and the internal engine coatings showed up today. Hopefully I can keep forward progress on this and school going at the same time.
The coatings are DIY stuff from Techline, not that expensive (in my mind anyway
), and if the quality of their packing job has any correlation to the quality of the product, should be good stuff. I was surprised to find a healthy dose of absorbent material in the shipping box, and the packaging and paperwork are really nice.
The coatings are DIY stuff from Techline, not that expensive (in my mind anyway
), and if the quality of their packing job has any correlation to the quality of the product, should be good stuff. I was surprised to find a healthy dose of absorbent material in the shipping box, and the packaging and paperwork are really nice.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Besides your really poor taste in alcohol 
this is a cool thread. Mention again what benefit the coatings are?
Please also post up pics of the at home balancing. Do you then plan a dynamic balance at the machine shop?
Carry on...
this is a cool thread. Mention again what benefit the coatings are?Please also post up pics of the at home balancing. Do you then plan a dynamic balance at the machine shop?
Carry on...
- Thread starter
- #106
The Rum was something my old roommate left around, free and goes good in coke. Scotch is more up my alley.
There are 4 coatings from Techline:
The CBC-1 is a metallic/ceramic coating used to inhibit heat transfer. It will go on the piston tops, chamber surface, valve faces and likely the intake ports. If there is a fair bit left after this, I think I'll coat the intake manifold too. It should work to keep the intake charge cool (intake manifold, port/runner and face of intake valve), keep the heat/energy of combustion in the combustion gasses to increase cylinder pressure slightly and keep heat out of the piston (and cooling system). It's also supposed to help stave off detonation (surfaces stay cooler) and provide a some protection against damage in the event of detonation (as a barrier, and by maintaining the aluminum's strength through cooler temps). I think I'll keep it off the exhaust ports/runners as some heat transfer there will be welcome for keeping the engine at temp during winter driving.
Oddly enough, looking at the claims/evidence put forth by the companies pushing these coatings and presented in some of the "promotional" magazines leaves me skeptical (little increase in dyno power, often only at high rpm) but reading in some of the engine building books (like Vizard and Monroe) is more convincing on their performance and protection benefits. Vizard for example suggests a power gain of 4-8% from coating the pistons, and 10%+ when the pistons, chamber surface and valve faces are done.
The DFL-1 is a "dry film" lubricant, techline shows using it for piston skirts, bearing insert faces, camshafts, ......... I'll put it on the piston skirts, thinking about the bearings and camshaft or lifter faces as well. Not sure how much this will cut friction in normal operation, but it should provide a back up in case the oiling system hickups
The PKSX is a rub on (no baking) lubricant that is intended for bore surfaces. It will go on the cylinder bores and likely the lifter bores. Perhaps it will help to cut ring drag a bit
Then there's an exhaust manifold coating, heat barrier again.
The 4 of those ran ~$120 US, and from my understanding there is more than enough for one engine. I'm not in the financial situation to go for a full machined rebuild, so I'm planning on just glaze breaking and running these pistons after they are cleaned up and coated. I figure with that in mind, the coatings could offer a bit of insurance, and if they turn out to be a bad idea (flake off and abrade or something) I won't have F'ed up a fresh bottom end. I still need to check clearances and check the bores for taper and such, but as long as nothing is out of spec I want to keep cost to a minimum.
As for the balancing, I'll run through what I do. Since the I6 doesn't require bobweights to balance rotationally, I'm going to try and idea for balancing the crank at home. If it works I'll post up.
There are 4 coatings from Techline:
The CBC-1 is a metallic/ceramic coating used to inhibit heat transfer. It will go on the piston tops, chamber surface, valve faces and likely the intake ports. If there is a fair bit left after this, I think I'll coat the intake manifold too. It should work to keep the intake charge cool (intake manifold, port/runner and face of intake valve), keep the heat/energy of combustion in the combustion gasses to increase cylinder pressure slightly and keep heat out of the piston (and cooling system). It's also supposed to help stave off detonation (surfaces stay cooler) and provide a some protection against damage in the event of detonation (as a barrier, and by maintaining the aluminum's strength through cooler temps). I think I'll keep it off the exhaust ports/runners as some heat transfer there will be welcome for keeping the engine at temp during winter driving.
Oddly enough, looking at the claims/evidence put forth by the companies pushing these coatings and presented in some of the "promotional" magazines leaves me skeptical (little increase in dyno power, often only at high rpm) but reading in some of the engine building books (like Vizard and Monroe) is more convincing on their performance and protection benefits. Vizard for example suggests a power gain of 4-8% from coating the pistons, and 10%+ when the pistons, chamber surface and valve faces are done.
The DFL-1 is a "dry film" lubricant, techline shows using it for piston skirts, bearing insert faces, camshafts, ......... I'll put it on the piston skirts, thinking about the bearings and camshaft or lifter faces as well. Not sure how much this will cut friction in normal operation, but it should provide a back up in case the oiling system hickups
The PKSX is a rub on (no baking) lubricant that is intended for bore surfaces. It will go on the cylinder bores and likely the lifter bores. Perhaps it will help to cut ring drag a bit
Then there's an exhaust manifold coating, heat barrier again.
The 4 of those ran ~$120 US, and from my understanding there is more than enough for one engine. I'm not in the financial situation to go for a full machined rebuild, so I'm planning on just glaze breaking and running these pistons after they are cleaned up and coated. I figure with that in mind, the coatings could offer a bit of insurance, and if they turn out to be a bad idea (flake off and abrade or something) I won't have F'ed up a fresh bottom end. I still need to check clearances and check the bores for taper and such, but as long as nothing is out of spec I want to keep cost to a minimum.
As for the balancing, I'll run through what I do. Since the I6 doesn't require bobweights to balance rotationally, I'm going to try and idea for balancing the crank at home. If it works I'll post up.
Last edited:
matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
Is this better
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
I want to know how far off the rods are!
- Thread starter
- #110
I'll grab them and get an idea. Not ready to do any grinding yet, but can't hurt to know if much/any will be needed.
- Thread starter
- #111
With old bearing shells still in and no bolt on the pin end:
1- 991g
2- 1007g
3- 1029g
4- 1026g
5- 1001g
6- 1005g
So there is about a 4% spread. I'll have to make a rig before I can break that down into big end and pin end measurements.
1- 991g
2- 1007g
3- 1029g
4- 1026g
5- 1001g
6- 1005g
So there is about a 4% spread. I'll have to make a rig before I can break that down into big end and pin end measurements.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
How does that work - How can you differentiate btwn the two ends?
- Thread starter
- #113
Support one end by a string, or nail on a stand or some such to take it's share of the weight off, and support the end you are weighing with some kind of a stand on the scale (to ensure you are taking the weight off of the same "point" for each). I'll see if I have any pics in a book, and post up when I make a rig.
You want to do that because the pin end only adds to the reciprocating weight, while the big end contributes to rotational weight. So if you had two rods that were balanced for total weight, but had it skewed to different ends, it would not be balanced.
You want to do that because the pin end only adds to the reciprocating weight, while the big end contributes to rotational weight. So if you had two rods that were balanced for total weight, but had it skewed to different ends, it would not be balanced.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Whoa, I am back in Dynamics class all over again!
I would take that pic...
Next dumb-a$$ question; once you have identified which end to lighten, where do you grind?
I would welcome your pics when you go to balance...
Did you say you are going to balance the crank?
- Thread starter
- #115
Couldn't find anything for a diagram, so here's a sketch. You would do similar (with the supporting pin for the non-weighing end moved vertically to accommodate) to weigh the big end. Labels read scale and 2 stands, dashed horizontal line shows that the centerline of the rod is horizontal.
- Thread starter
- #117
I just happen to have a bunch of those metal 90* brackets looking for a use.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Ah! So the key is to keep the rod horizontal...
Not necessarily horizontal, but constant throughout the process however. Rather, the key is that the end not being weighed can swivel near frictionless.
- Thread starter
- #120
I'm getting ready to balance the rods, so I could use a little insight on where to remove material. There are no balancing pads on them, so I've gone through and identified a few potential spots to remove weight, the ones identified with green lines are ones I think would be safe, the ones identified with red lines are ones I think are questionable. Thoughts?
1. Flat machined bumps on the sides of the cap.
2. Reinforcing arches along the cap.
3. Edges of the "nut landing pad" beyond the contact area with the nut.
4. Slightly raised ridge cast in the side of the beam.
5. Slightly raised ridge cast in the edge of the pin bolt "boss".
6. Machined-down "bump" on end of beam near pin bolt head landing.
7. Edges of the I-beam where not stamped.
8. Edges of the I-beam where stamped.
9. Top rim of pin bolt "boss" (some excess material present here on some rods, and area is generally beyond where strength is needed for threads).
1. Flat machined bumps on the sides of the cap.
2. Reinforcing arches along the cap.
3. Edges of the "nut landing pad" beyond the contact area with the nut.
4. Slightly raised ridge cast in the side of the beam.
5. Slightly raised ridge cast in the edge of the pin bolt "boss".
6. Machined-down "bump" on end of beam near pin bolt head landing.
7. Edges of the I-beam where not stamped.
8. Edges of the I-beam where stamped.
9. Top rim of pin bolt "boss" (some excess material present here on some rods, and area is generally beyond where strength is needed for threads).
