Head Gasket done - no start (1 Viewer)

[cme4lyt]

IF you find out from the second machine shop that the first undoubtedly messed up, then I think you have a case. However, the skeptical side of me says that if they ‘lawyer up’ and you have to ‘lawyer up’, or go to small claims court, you will prob spend more time and money recovering your costs than it’s ultimately worth.

It really sucks, since you’re right, but it just never seems to be that easy and simple in these types of cases.

 

[musthave]

Have you determined beyond a doubt what the actual problem is? Once this is apparent, fault should be easy to assign.

I haven't been able to determine that. If I took it all apart, perhaps I could, but getting recourse might be difficult if I do it vs. a shop doing it.

 

[BILT4ME]

It's a tough spot.

Document
Document
Document

Photos of everything, over and over if you even have a chance in hell of recovering anything.

Typically you should offer first right of refusal to the shop that did the work.

If you don't trust them you'll pay a third party.
Otherwise you'll pay a third party anyway.

 

[baldilocks]

I’m a little lost here. How could what a machine shop did to your head cause the engine to seize? Or did they do more than the typical head rebuild?

 

[HMM]

You will not get anything out of them if you go somewhere else. Best case is you take it apart and bring them pics and the defective work. All you can hope is they fix it for free. I was still out my gasket set and my new piston after I broke a valve from my machine shop screw up...

 

[60 toy ota]

I'm confused about your comment about the shifter in neutral. After removing the transmission, the fact that you can go through all the gears at the shifter only proves that the shifter works. Did you mean that you could go through all the gears by turning the bolt on the side of the transmission?

 

[musthave]

I’m a little lost here. How could what a machine shop did to your head cause the engine to seize? Or did they do more than the typical head rebuild?

If they didn't surface the head uniformly. Perhaps they took off too much and it binds the cams when the head is pulled down and then run. Or, maybe they cut them too deep and the seats leak coolant into the cylinders. I really don't know. They did a lot to it, $700 or so.

You will not get anything out of them if you go somewhere else. Best case is you take it apart and bring them pics and the defective work. All you can hope is they fix it for free. I was still out my gasket set and my new piston after I broke a valve from my machine shop screw up...

That's the tricky part, they ideally would want to be the ones to accept or deny responsibility and fix it accordingly. Likely that I will take it there. Just considering the options.

I'm confused about your comment about the shifter in neutral. After removing the transmission, the fact that you can go through all the gears at the shifter only proves that the shifter works. Did you mean that you could go through all the gears by turning the bolt on the side of the transmission?

Perhaps it means nothing then. I can move the shifter into neutral, but it isn't actually affecting anything.

 

[musthave]

Crazy to have to think through these things, but I do feel like the machine shop is responsible. I didn't put antifreeze in the oil, and there's a limited number of ways that you can get a gallon of antifreeze in the oil that quickly. HG can't be installed upside down, so there isn't really much that I could have done wrong installing it that would cause it to fail so quickly. So it seems right that they be held accountable.

 

[flintknapper]

Crazy to have to think through these things, but I do feel like the machine shop is responsible. I didn't put antifreeze in the oil, and there's a limited number of ways that you can get a gallon of antifreeze in the oil that quickly. HG can't be installed upside down, so there isn't really much that I could have done wrong installing it that would cause it to fail so quickly. So it seems right that they be held accountable.

^^^^^

I'd submit it's prudent to hold them 'suspect'. We don't know about accountable yet....but its hard for me to imagine a scenario where it was anything you did...from what you've told us.

I would definitely go over there and speak with them (calmly and professionally). See what their posture is. Then take the entire engine over there and let THEM tear it down and inspect it.

I'm very curious to see what they find.

Hope this works out well for you. It's been a lot of work and disappointments so far....I know.

 

[musthave]

^^^^^

I'd submit it's prudent to hold them 'suspect'. We don't know about accountable yet....but its hard for me to imagine a scenario where it was anything you did...from what you've told us.

I would definitely go over there and speak with them (calmly and professionally). See what their posture is. Then take the entire engine over there and let THEM tear it down and inspect it.

I'm very curious to see what they find.

Hope this works out well for you. It's been a lot of work and disappointments so far....I know.

So I went over to the machine shop this morning and calmly discussed what had happened. I was told that there is nothing in the machining process that would cause this. He said they takeoff perhaps 1 millions of an inch and that there is no way that would cause an issue. There is no work that they performed that would cause an issue. He stated that he has never seen an issue like this in his 40 years of experience. He then told me that the only way this could happen is if the head gasket was on upside down. He then said that he would take a look at the head for a analysis charge of $175. If they don’t find anything wrong that could have been their fault then I owe that amount. He also said that I could not bring in the engine with the head attached. They would only look at it if I brought in just the cylinder head. It would be an understatement to say that I am a little frustrated right now.

 

[450LX]

How did you torque the head bolts?

 

[75thRGR]

I can only imagine...
Definitely somebody I wouldn't want to do business with (nor you, had you had any idea, of course). He has every right to be like that, as I understand his perspective, but all the same: he should hang a sign on his door to warn all potential customers: "I'M AN A-HOLE AND GIVE ZERO ______S". Dammit man... not even a mention of any wiggle room or humanity... as cold as a gold digger with that gleam in her eye...

We're all aware that it may not be the shop's fault, but he sure sounds colder than hell. He's probably been screwed over a number of times is all I can guess and that's hardened him to what he'd call "any potential BS". 40 years? Crusty, too.

 

[musthave]

How did you torque the head bolts?

Precisely to FSM.

 

[musthave]

I can only imagine...
Definitely somebody I wouldn't want to do business with (nor you, had you had any idea, of course). He has every right to be like that, as I understand his perspective, but all the same: he should hang a sign on his door to warn all potential customers: "I'M AN A-HOLE AND GIVE ZERO ______S". Dammit man... not even a mention of any wiggle room or humanity... as cold as a gold digger with that gleam in her eye...

We're all aware that it may not be the shop's fault, but he sure sounds colder than hell. He's probably been screwed over a number of times is all I can guess and that's hardened him to what he'd call "any potential BS". 40 years? Crusty, too.

Well said! I'm sure they've done hundreds or more cylinder heads and maybe have had few problems, but problems happen. Mistakes happen. I agree, could have been a defective gasket, could be a bolt not torqued, etc. but like him, I followed the FSM precisely and am confident that it's right. If I take the head off, there is little way for me to prove later that the bolts were on correctly, or the gasket. But, I feel like I have no choice here. Short of adding 1 gallon of antifreeze to the oil, I am not sure what else I could have done.

I'd like to leave the head on, and perhaps put the water pump and thermostat on, then pressurize it somehow and see if I can see where it leaks. Not sure if that's possible. Just thinking...

 

[baldilocks]

Sometimes things just happen. It will be nearly impossible to get any type of retribution out of the machine shop that did the work for less time and money than it will cost to just do what you gotta do to have a running engine in that Land Cruiser.

 

[chappysfj40]

Crazy to have to think through these things, but I do feel like the machine shop is responsible. I didn't put antifreeze in the oil, and there's a limited number of ways that you can get a gallon of antifreeze in the oil that quickly. HG can't be installed upside down, so there isn't really much that I could have done wrong installing it that would cause it to fail so quickly. So it seems right that they be held accountable.

can the oli cooler be installed wrong and let coolant into the oil?

 

[flintknapper]

can the oli cooler be installed wrong and let coolant into the oil?

NO.

Only gasket failure or failure of the cooler itself would permit that.

 

[flintknapper]

I agree, could have been a defective gasket, could be a bolt not torqued, etc. but like him, I followed the FSM precisely and am confident that it's right. If I take the head off, there is little way for me to prove later that the bolts were on correctly, or the gasket.

Do you have a receipt or work order stating exactly what they did to the head?

The head work may not in fact be the issue....but it's one of the first places I'd be checking.

You can't really prove the torque figures on the bolts (save to video you taking them off).

The head gasket can NOT be put on incorrectly. It isn't symmetrical so can't be put on 'backwards'. They CAN be damaged during installation of the head however....if a person isn't careful.

 

[chappysfj40]

NO.

Only gasket failure or failure of the cooler itself would permit that.

View attachment 2311872

ok cool, just something i was worried about myself as a potential failure point. thanks

 

[flintknapper]

ok cool, just something i was worried about myself as a potential failure point. thanks

The internal portion (actual cooler) is exceedingly thick and heavy. Hard to imagine it could ever corrode through...but possible I suppose. Gasket failure could cause mixing...the OP had a large amount in a very short period of time.