Head Gasket done - no start (1 Viewer)

[fjbj40]

Drain oil and see if anything in it. If so drop pan and look up like Bilt4me said. Only next logical step. Go from there. Something broke to jam the engine.
Can you scope down the plug holes to see if a valve dropped?
But that does not explain coolant in oil.

 

[fjbj40]

deleted duplicate

 

[TurboDennis]

I can think of a few different ways how coolant could get into the head, but only one of them would explain the engine being completely seized. A con rod through the cylinder... I hope im wrong

I would be very curious to know what caused it. My initial thought was that maybe running the engine with too much timing advance would cause severe detonation and break the con rod or the piston wrist pin (before the ECU had the chance to pull the timing based on knock sensor response), but it doesnt seem plausible with a stout engine like the 1FZ.

 

[musthave]

Pull the lower oil pan and inspect the cylinders from the bottom with a borescope. If a conrod broke, you should be able to see some evidence.

I am debating pulling the oil pan, but regardless of what I might find, with it in my driveway, I would end up bringing it to a shop. Not sure if I can handle pulling engine and trans in my driveway.

This is not an interference engine meaning the valves will not contact the piston if timing chain fails.
You would have to remove the timing chain, remove the cam timing gear, and reinstall on the cam to give you something to turn it with. Use a strap wrench. Then you can rotate cams to proper location to remove the head.
Dump your oil first and look for metal particulate. That will determine if you just need to pull the whole damn thing.

I see what you mean by installing the timing gear on the cam without the chain, but wouldn't there be increased pressure on the camshaft causing it to not come out evenly?

Drain oil and see if anything in it. If so drop pan and look up like Bilt4me said. Only next logical step. Go from there. Something broke to jam the engine.
Can you scope down the plug holes to see if a valve dropped?
But that does not explain coolant in oil.

I have considered draining the oil and looking at what I see, but regardless of what I might see, I don't think I can fix that in my driveway.

I was able to scope down the plug holes, no valve dropped. #2 and #4 are black on top where as the others are still clean from me doing the HG and cleaning all of them.

Only way I see coolant getting in the oil is through the oil cooler cover, or the head is cracked.

I've considered pulling engine and trans in my driveway. I've read quite a few articles though and a few have suggested don't do it at home unless you have a forklift and a lot of clearance as you need about 8' or so. Without a good stout lift or a transmission jack, I am just not sure I want to try to tackle that. Even if my hoist could do it, I don't think it's feasible.

 

[TurboDennis]

I am debating pulling the oil pan, but regardless of what I might find, with it in my driveway, I would end up bringing it to a shop. Not sure if I can handle pulling engine and trans in my driveway.


I've considered pulling engine and trans in my driveway. I've read quite a few articles though and a few have suggested don't do it at home unless you have a forklift and a lot of clearance as you need about 8' or so. Without a good stout lift or a transmission jack, I am just not sure I want to try to tackle that. Even if my hoist could do it, I don't think it's feasible.

If you pull the engine, you should drain the oil anyway. So might as well drain it now and see what you find there. Pulling the lower oil pan after draining the oil is a 5 minute job. This should give you a much better idea what happened.

If you do have a broken con rod/piston wrist pin, there is no need to waste time and money by taking the engine to a shop to have them look at it - the bottom end will have to go straight to scrap yard. So it makes sense to diagnose it yourself.

Either way, unless you can unseize the engine somehow (doesn't seem likely at this point), it will have to come out together with the tranny because you wont be able to separate the flex plate and the torque converter with a seized engine.

As for pulling the engine on your driveway.. I suppose it depends on your level of skill and experience, but there really isnt much to it.. I've done it over 10 times and i can pull the 1FZ in about 3 hours flat at this point, on my driveway.

 

[Rookie2]

Anyone else surprised by the amount of antifreeze in the top end after just 4 seconds of running time?

 

[musthave]

If you pull the engine, you should drain the oil anyway. So might as well drain it now and see what you find there. Pulling the lower oil pan after draining the oil is a 5 minute job. This should give you a much better idea what happened.

If you do have a broken con rod/piston wrist pin, there is no need to waste time and money by taking the engine to a shop to have them look at it - the bottom end will have to go straight to scrap yard. So it makes sense to diagnose it yourself.

Either way, unless you can unseize the engine somehow (doesn't seem likely at this point), it will have to come out together with the tranny because you wont be able to separate the flex plate and the torque converter with a seized engine.

As for pulling the engine on your driveway.. I suppose it depends on your level of skill and experience, but there really isnt much to it.. I've done it over 10 times and i can pull the 1FZ in about 3 hours flat at this point, on my driveway.

Good point, as I'm guessing the engine is coming out. I'll drain it tomorrow and take off the lower oil pan and get some pictures. Almost afraid to look.
I doubt that I can unseize the engine so taking out the engine and tranny is the only way to do it I suppose.
As for pulling the engine in the driveway, that's something I've never done before, though I probably have the tools necessary if I wanted to dive in. 10 times in your driveway isn't bad, 3 hours sounds great. I feel like it's easily 10 hours or more, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Anyone else surprised by the amount of antifreeze in the top end after just 4 seconds of running time?

I know that I am! It only ran for 4 seconds. But, I cranked on it continuously throughout the day yesterday when I was chasing a crank no start issue. Wow, wish I were chasing that instead of this.

 

[flintknapper]

Was your head serviced while you had it off? (Valves tipped, Pressure checked, Surfaced)?

 

[flintknapper]

Was your head serviced while you had it off? (Valves tipped, Pressure checked, Surfaced)?

 

[musthave]

Was your head serviced while you had it off? (Valves tipped, Pressure checked, Surfaced)?

Yes, head out, full valve job, pressure check, surfaced, full $750 job. And now..

 

[flintknapper]

Yes, head out, full valve job, pressure check, surfaced, full $750 job. And now..

Do you know how much material they removed when they surfaced the head and if they did it uniformly?

I ask..because some shops will surface a head that is warped (to try to save it) more on one end than the other...then if TOO much it binds the cams when the head is pulled down and then run.

 

[BILT4ME]

Do you know how much material they removed when they surfaced the head and if they did it uniformly?

I ask..because some shops will surface a head that is warped (to try to save it) more on one end than the other...then if TOO much it binds the cams when the head is pulled down and then run.

Also, if they mill it off, then cut the seats, they may cut them too deep and the seats leak coolant into the cylinders.

That said, if you have no coolant in the cylinders, the the oil cooler or a cracked head. Neither of which explains a locked engine.

 

[jpoole]

I've been following along to see if I could contribute help but you've got a lot of good help going here so I just wanted to say that I'm sorry this issue has come up for you. 20 years ago I had a full rebuild fail during the first/break-in drive because I used the wrong seal on an oil passage. It's still hard for me to think about how that went down. I hope you either find good news or can keep the momentum going to get this fixed and behind you relatively quickly. Wish you were closer so that I could don PPE and help expedite the engine pull if that's what's needed.

I hope you catch a few breaks with this soon.

 

[BILT4ME]

I've been following along to see if I could contribute help but you've got a lot of good help going here so I just wanted to say that I'm sorry this issue has come up for you. 20 years ago I had a full rebuild fail during the first/break-in drive because I used the wrong seal on an oil passage. It's still hard for me to think about how that went down. I hope you either find good news or can keep the momentum going to get this fixed and behind you relatively quickly. Wish you were closer so that I could don PPE and help expedite the engine pull if that's what's needed.

I hope you catch a few breaks with this soon.

Me too.

 

[HMM]

I had heads done on my 06 ford power stroke, head shop didn't sink the valves deep enough. When I got it started after bullet proofing it, I could hear some knocking. Turns out all the valves were slapping the pistons on the drivers side. Broke one and cemented itself in the piston... I had to pull the engine and put a new piston in it. They were nice enough to do the heads again, claimed the valves were at min spec per the book. I got out for only an additional $600 in gaskets, hope you are as lucky as well. Pulling it in the driveway may suck but it'll be easier than you think.

 

[cme4lyt]

Pulling the tranny and engine as one piece in your driveway is totally doable with another set of hands and a regular engine hoist. I‘ve done it twice in my driveway and it does take the better part of a day working slowly and methodically.

My trick was to pull the grill and radiator and all the other stuff up front so that you don’t have to raise the engine hoist up too much; that’s when it gets tippy ! Once I was sure I didn’t need to go under the truck for anything else, I lowered the truck down onto the ground, with the wheels off, so that once again the front of the truck is as low as it can go. That makes clearing the front bumper/radiator opening easier with the large long ‘lump‘ that you are extracting !

 

[musthave]

I drained the oil. Probably 1/2 gallon was new antifreeze. Then I took off the oil pan. Here’s what I see so far. Not sure where I should scope to.

 

[flintknapper]

Bottom end of these engines are pretty bullet proof (not indestructible, but mostly trouble free).

Doubt you will find your trouble there....but who knows.

 

[JeepinPete]

At this point you know you are going to pull the head, and the upper oil pan so that you can get at the bearings and see their state. The engine being seized is a mystery, just idling it would likely run for a lot longer without oil than it did in you case.

I do not think there is going to be a simple solution to this one, and it is a lot easier to deal with everything on an engine stand. I'd be planning on pulling that motor unfortunately.

 

[retrofive]

At this point you know you are going to pull the head, and the upper oil pan so that you can get at the bearings and see their state. The engine being seized is a mystery, just idling it would likely run for a lot longer without oil than it did in you case.

I do not think there is going to be a simple solution to this one, and it is a lot easier to deal with everything on an engine stand. I'd be planning on pulling that motor unfortunately.

This is sad story, but agree, time to pull the brick out.