Head Gasket done - no start (2 Viewers)

[george_tlc]

Ah, so the truth now comes out i.e. you changed a LOT of stuff... You have a huge number of unknowns at this point, though things like O2 sensor connection and even injector connectors should not prevent spark from occuring.

I assume the igniter was left in place and not removed during the 'refit'? I also assume this is the original distributor and you only removed it for access?

Presumably the CEL comes on with the key turned to run (but not cranked)?

cheers,
george.

 

[musthave]

To verify no spark, I took the plug out of cylinder 1. Inserted it tightly into the end of the plug wire. I then took a wire from ground and wrapped the ground around the threads of the plug. Inserted the tube into a blacked out bottle so that I would see the spark, cranked, nothing. I then took it out and visibly looked at it while trying to crank, no spark. I'm fairly confident there is no spark but don't have a better method of testing it.

 

[musthave]

Ah, so the truth now comes out i.e. you changed a LOT of stuff... You have a huge number of unknowns at this point, though things like O2 sensor connection and even injector connectors should not prevent spark from occuring.

I assume the igniter was left in place and not removed during the 'refit'? I also assume this is the original distributor and you only removed it for access?

Presumably the CEL comes on with the key turned to run (but not cranked)?

cheers,
george.

Yes, I did change stuff, a LOT of while you're in there! The igniter was left in place, likely original. Distributor is the one that came out. I took a known good working one from another cruiser, just to be sure though.

The CEL doesn't come on with key turned. Just the Trans light.

 

[george_tlc]

Ah... well, no CEL and it won't start, it'll crank, but not start... So, JOB #1 is get that CEL to come on with key to RUN.

cheers,
george.

 

[musthave]

Ah... well, no CEL and it won't start, it'll crank, but not start... So, JOB #1 is get that CEL to come on with key to RUN.

cheers,
george.

Not sure how to go about getting the CEL to come on with key in RUN position. I don't think the code scanner would pull a code if it doesn't start.

 

[george_tlc]

CEL is essential, no CEL and it won't start - no spark etc...

CEL failure is usually fusible link related, but you say you have a new fusible link in place. I'd verify it is indeed all good.

There's also a connector I think near the distributor area that connects the link into the harness to send power to the right places so that the ECU can power up. With no CEL you have no power to the ECU - that's why it wont start.

I'd suggest searching the 80 subforum for "no cel" and similar terms to see how to fault find. Until you get the CEL to light up, the ECU is not powered up, so no start...

cheers,
george.

 

[musthave]

CEL is essential, no CEL and it won't start - no spark etc...

CEL failure is usually fusible link related, but you say you have a new fusible link in place. I'd verify it is indeed all good.

There's also a connector I think near the distributor area that connects the link into the harness to send power to the right places so that the ECU can power up. With no CEL you have no power to the ECU - that's why it wont start.

I'd suggest searching the 80 subforum for "no cel" and similar terms to see how to fault find. Until you get the CEL to light up, the ECU is not powered up, so no start...

cheers,
george.

So the pink fusible link wire goes to the starter. Disconnected at connector and verified 12.4V. Opened up the little black box with the two nut connectors, show 12.4V there also. I don't know which connection you mean by the harness near the distributor, but I will look. I'll start searching for "no cel" and see if I can find something as well. Good suggestion. Thanks George, I appreciate it.

 

[george_tlc]

Pink doesn't go to starter. Do you mean alternator?

You will need to look at CEL threads. Basically the ECU lights up CEL as a bulb check with key to RUN (not started), after cranking and starting and key back to RUN the ECU will turn off the CEL, unless it is actually reporting a problem. So, if the CEL doesn't light, that means it is either burnt out (I presume it was working???) or the ECU is not getting power.

cheers,
george.

 

[Kernal]

Pink FL wire goes to the engine harness via connector.

 

[musthave]

Pink doesn't go to starter. Do you mean alternator?

You will need to look at CEL threads. Basically the ECU lights up CEL as a bulb check with key to RUN (not started), after cranking and starting and key back to RUN the ECU will turn off the CEL, unless it is actually reporting a problem. So, if the CEL doesn't light, that means it is either burnt out (I presume it was working???) or the ECU is not getting power.

cheers,
george.

Yes, sorry, pink goes to alternator. Big single cable without fusible link goes to starter

I did replace the EFI relay with a new one too, it tests good, and the 15A fuse is good.

I'm looking at CEL threads now trying to find something similar on a 95 or later.

 

[flintknapper]

After you get your ECU powered up (crucial) also check to see that your igniter is grounded.

 

[george_tlc]

^ OP says the igniter wasn't touched.... But yes, igniter gets its ground through its body (bolted to a bracket on the fender).

cheers,
george.

 

[musthave]

Alright, progress, but something isn't good.

So, I jumped the pink (which turns into yellow-red) from red battery directly to the plug by the distributor. Bingo, CEL lights up. Then I went ahead and plugged in the original connector by the battery. Lastly, changed out the EFI again to another brand new one. 15A fuse still good.

Started right up.

BUT!!!!

It ran for about 4 seconds, smooth as could be. Then stopped. Turn the key, not enough power to turn the crank, but battery tests good. I put a socket on the crank, it is unmovable. WTH !?!?!? It will not even budge a tiny bit. When it ran for those 4 seconds, it ran smooth, perfect. C'mon man, this is bad...

 

[flintknapper]

Alright, progress, but something isn't good.

So, I jumped the pink (which turns into yellow-red) from red battery directly to the plug by the distributor. Bingo, CEL lights up. Then I went ahead and plugged in the original connector by the battery. Lastly, changed out the EFI again to another brand new one. 15A fuse still good.

Started right up.

BUT!!!!

It ran for about 4 seconds, smooth as could be. Then stopped. Turn the key, not enough power to turn the crank, but battery tests good. I put a socket on the crank, it is unmovable. WTH !?!?!? It will not even budge a tiny bit. When it ran for those 4 seconds, it ran smooth, perfect. C'mon man, this is bad...

Won't turn either direction CW/CCW?

Pull your Spark Plugs and see if you can turn it by the crank bolt.

 

[musthave]

Won't turn either direction CW/CCW?

Pull your Spark Plugs and see if you can turn it by the crank bolt.

Wouldn't turn clockwise. Didn't try CCW. It's dark now so I will remove plugs in the morning and see if it turns. I fear that it will not. I believe it is perhaps seized.

I turned it probably 30 times freely over the last day or two prior to it starting this evening. Turned it smoothly with the camshafts in and all lined up. Smooth. I'm at a loss.

 

[450LX]

Is the starter still engaged and seized? Maybe pull the starter and see if you can turn the motor. That's the only thing I could see seizing it up.

 

[musthave]

Is the starter still engaged and seized? Maybe pull the starter and see if you can turn the motor. That's the only thing I could see seizing it up.

I hadn't thought of that. Easy enough to pull that before I do anything else. That would be a blessing right about now.

 

[flintknapper]

Wouldn't turn clockwise. Didn't try CCW. It's dark now so I will remove plugs in the morning and see if it turns. I fear that it will not. I believe it is perhaps seized.

I turned it probably 30 times freely over the last day or two prior to it starting this evening. Turned it smoothly with the camshafts in and all lined up. Smooth. I'm at a loss.

Spray some lubricant down each cylinder before trying to rotate the engine. Let it sit for awhile so hopefully some can get down past at least the top rings.

 

[musthave]

Spray some lubricant down each cylinder before trying to rotate the engine. Let it sit for awhile so hopefully some can get down past at least the top rings.

I'll pull the plugs. Spray some Aerokroil down in each cylinder, let it sit. Pull the starter. Then see if it turns by hand. Not sure what could have made it seize solid in under 6 seconds.

 

[bicycleagent003]

Good luck getting it up and running tomorrow. For me, sometimes walking away from a project for a few hours or overnight really helps me settle down and come back with a clear head.
Here's hoping tomorrow morning reveals a solution.