H41 problems

[allan man]

I recently installed an H41 put about approximately 200miles on it shifted like butter ....and today i noticed it was hard to shift into 2nd gear from 1st....however 3rd and 4th is okey throughout the day of trail riding i noticed it was geting worse....sometimes even getting it into 1st. at one time though it was hard to get it into 3rd...

My clutch is okey not slipping,fluid is full...


I can recall when i did the install tried going out for my first test drive.....the stick shift was frozen would not shift into any gears at all so i pulled the top plate off the tranny and put it back on.....
after that everything was just fine....until today.....does it have anything to do with the top shift plate maybe being worn inside? i still have the H42 top shift plate would that interchange with the H41?

 

[Pin_Head]

How does it shift when the engine is not running?
Is you clutch properly adjusted? Does the gear grind going from N into R?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The top plates are the same. I have an H42 top plate on an H41 transmission.

It sounds like your clutch may not be completely disengaging. Tough to say at a distance, though.

 

[allan man]

How does it shift when the engine is not running?
Is you clutch properly adjusted? Does the gear grind going from N into R?

Pin_Head it shifts smooth on every gear when motor is off....does not grind from N to reverse..

 

[FF LC FREAK]

Clutch master or slave. Have someone push in the clutch while you look at the slave. See if it moves and if so, how much. It could need adjusting or replacement.

Good luck!

 

[Pin_Head]

The most likely culprits are a dragging clutch or a frozen pilot bearing. If so, it will grind when going from N to R when the engine is running. If it isn't these problems, then I don't have a clue. It doesn't make sense that the top cover would work fine with the engine stopped and not when it is running.

 

[allan man]

okey today i bleed the system double check the freeplay on the clutch pedal approx. 3/4 .....no leaks..... master and slave about 9 months old.....still wont go into 2nd gear.... from 1st gear on a normal take off it will grind trying to get it into 2nd....while its moving,so ill skip 2nd and throw it into 3rd with no problem,same with forth.....on a complete stop i can get it into 2nd no problem..

Would it be syncros? i dont understand how they work just a wild guess......it shifts fine thru every gear when engine is not running.

 

[cruiser_guy]

When you installed this did you forget any of the spacers between the tranny and transfer? I had a similar situation and I had forgotten the spacer between the tranny and transfer gears. That was allowing gears to "walk" around in the tranny causing difficult shifting at times.

 

[Pin_Head]

Does it grind going from N to R with the engine running? If so, the clutch is dragging or the pilot bearing is frozen.

A bad synchro would be more of a problem down shifting from 3 to 2.

If it is not a dragging clutch, then maybe it was assembled improperly as mentioned above.

 

[allan man]

Yeah everything was put back together correctly didnt have any left over parts laying around after the swap......does not grind fron N to R when motor is running...... 2nd it grinds when cruiser in motion.....3 and 4 okey....but will engage in 2nd when completely stopped.....any more thoughts anybody?

I'd hate to crack it open again...maybe i'll try some synthetics...before going into it... currently i have 90-140 wt. in there GL4-GL5

 

[Pin_Head]

It may be a bad synchro, but that wouldn't prevent it from going into second; it would just grind a bit first. If it is a bad synchro, try getting your money back. If you can't, learn how to drive with a bad synchro. It won't grind if you match the engine speed to the tranny output shaft speed, which is determined by tire speed. Double clutch on the down shift and up shift if need be.

If it is not a bad synchro and it just won't go into gear, grinding or not, then something is wrong internally. I doubt it is the top cover, since it shifts fine as long as the truck ins't moving. Changing the gear lube is easy, but it probably won't make any difference.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Yeah everything was put back together correctly didnt have any left over parts laying around after the swap......does not grind fron N to R when motor is running...... 2nd it grinds when cruiser in motion.....3 and 4 okey....but will engage in 2nd when completely stopped.....any more thoughts anybody?

I'd hate to crack it open again...maybe i'll try some synthetics...before going into it... currently i have 90-140 wt. in there GL4-GL5

What swap did you do? The spacer would easily slide off a tranny while being shipped or on the shelf and it could easily be left behind when you pull the old tranny and split the tranny/transfer. As strange as it may seem it IS possible to forget this and not even know it.

Do you have the old tranny? Assuming it was an H42 see if there is a spacer/collar on the output shaft. If there is I'll bet that's your problem. It's part#11 in this diagram of the transfer case gears.

With mine it would really balk at going into 2nd sometimes and occasionally other gears but second was the worst with third not particularly great either. I didn't really notice it for a year or two and when I did finally do something it had damaged the transfer case and I needed a new transfer case housing.

I'm with "Pin_Head" on the gear oil change. You can swap out the oil if it makes you feel better but the problem likely will not go away. These trannies are made to work with just about anything.

 

[dargreg]

I had one in my 82 ,If you shift it semi fast it will grind into second.Only started doing this after an oil change,same oil and weight .After double clutching it works fine and I find myself double clutching second in everything now.How ever the verdict is the clutch and had to be changed but that was done in the h55 converstion.The guy I sold the tranny to says it works fine.

 

[allan man]

Cruiser_Guy thanks for pointing that out... part 11 on the diagram did go back in......now you got me thinkin though.....dont remember if i lubed it would that be the culprit? does it need to be lubed? i didnt have an FSM during the swap..

 

[cruiser_guy]

Cruiser_Guy thanks for pointing that out... part 11 on the diagram did go back in......now you got me thinkin though.....dont remember if i lubed it would that be the culprit? does it need to be lubed? i didnt have an FSM during the swap..

#11 is only a spacer, nothing more as far as I remember. If it wasn't lubed before it probably is now!

This is the spacer on the tranny output that must be installed regardless of whether there is a PTO output gear, part #9 or not. If you do not have a PTO output gear then you have an additional spacer to take the place of the PTO gear #9. Most 4 speeds did not have a PTO output gear installed. So you have two or possibly three spacers on the tranny output shaft, parts #11, 7 and possibly a spacer for #9.

 

[allan man]

Yeah now that i thought about it...i guess that spacer is just to keep everything Meshed up between the tranny and TC like you said WALKING ....i hope i did lube it.....but like you said it probably is now
i hope not by means of the seals bad already...cuz i just changed them! IIRC that area where the spacer lies in is dry anyways coz its inbetween the tranny seal and TC seal..

 

[allan man]

I think when i have time i'll just drain the tranny fluid anyways....and see what it spits out?? Hopefully not a bill calling for another H41

 

[cruiser_guy]

i hope not by means of the seals bad already...cuz i just changed them! IIRC that area where the spacer lies in is dry anyways coz its inbetween the tranny seal and TC seal..

No "dry" areas anywhere in the tranny or transfer. The seal simply separates the tranny oil from the transfer oil. There is oil on both sides of the seal. The seal rides on the extention of gear #10 therefore spacer #11 is in the tranny.

I think when i have time i'll just drain the tranny fluid anyways....and see what it spits out?? Hopefully not a bill calling for another H41

When I found out my mistake it was 2-3 years later (continual worsening of the shifting caused me to look into it) and it cost me an input and output tranny shaft (they rubbed together since the parts were not held as they were designed due to the missing spacer #11) as well as a transfer case housing (worn out by rubbing of gear #10). My tranny was an H42 and I took the opportunity to install and H41 since they are more plentiful in Guatemala where we are now.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

One other thought. is the blue plastic shifter seat in the shifter tower new? When these get compressed (common) they cause all sorts of shifting weirdness. You can sort of check by pulling up on the shifter as you shift. If the shifting gets better, you need a new shift collar.

It sounds like your tranny is probably OK, since the symptom of bad syncros is grinding.

 

[allan man]

Good thought cruiserdrew,,, I don't even have that blue piece in there,,, I will try lifting up on shifting and see ,,,thanks everyone for the advices really appreciate it.