GSMTR 2013 Poll (Take 2) - Where do you wanna take your truck?
- Thread starter Hugh Heifer
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Nope, my own responsibility/fault for doing what I did. I just have a hard time believing that others haven't done the exact same thing before.
Sorry Hugh... Might have to do a take 3
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- #24
Land Speeder said:
Yeah, sorry about the deletion.
Sent from my thing with Woody's junk.
- Thread starter
- #25
I would love to be able to do some long easy trails. My second 40 will likely never see GMP. But there are places we can do that so that's why we have the poll 
Sent from my thing with Woody's junk.
Sent from my thing with Woody's junk.
I am still amazed. Do you people that remember Tellico remember people complaining about showers and easy trails? I mean COME ON!
This was an "easy" trail at Tellico. BMTHiker, back me up here! We are neutering the dog!
This was an "easy" trail at Tellico. BMTHiker, back me up here! We are neutering the dog!
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- #28
The dog has not been neutered. Just trying to decide if he should go to the vet 
The other part of this is we believe CC may offer a wider rang of trails to satisfy more folks. Folks will still get hard trails but there are more easier trails.
The proximity of the trails to the camp at GMP is one thing I see as an unrivaled
Keep the votes and comments coming boys and girls.
Sent from my thing with Woody's junk.
The other part of this is we believe CC may offer a wider rang of trails to satisfy more folks. Folks will still get hard trails but there are more easier trails.
The proximity of the trails to the camp at GMP is one thing I see as an unrivaled
Keep the votes and comments coming boys and girls.
Sent from my thing with Woody's junk.
Let me say this: I never have had a chance to go on trails like at GM before this GSMTR. I'm from Florida, we don't have anything like that here.
I went on the Wed night ride (or was it Thurs), down trail 2. But I did a LOT of work on my truck before coming to prepare for the trip. That being said, that was also my transportation home, so
I didn't want to f it up too bad. I didn't mind scratches and dents, but I didn't have a spare driveshaft if I hit something the wrong way.
I was lucky, however. Luis was guiding me, showing me the right lines. He made sure I didn't do anything stupid. During the night run, I followed his line - he knew my truck and ability, and took that into account. I can't thank him enough for that - this experience leads me to come back next year, all the more prepared for more advanced trails after I make a few more
mods to my rig.
Point being that not all of us have a place like GM around. We cant really practice or learn where we are - so we need easier trails to try and figure the truck out and where our (and it's) abilities are. Without a good mix, you can't learn. You can't improve. You don't go from "noob" to expert just because you pitched a tent at an event.
I went on the Wed night ride (or was it Thurs), down trail 2. But I did a LOT of work on my truck before coming to prepare for the trip. That being said, that was also my transportation home, so
I didn't want to f it up too bad. I didn't mind scratches and dents, but I didn't have a spare driveshaft if I hit something the wrong way.
I was lucky, however. Luis was guiding me, showing me the right lines. He made sure I didn't do anything stupid. During the night run, I followed his line - he knew my truck and ability, and took that into account. I can't thank him enough for that - this experience leads me to come back next year, all the more prepared for more advanced trails after I make a few more
mods to my rig.
Point being that not all of us have a place like GM around. We cant really practice or learn where we are - so we need easier trails to try and figure the truck out and where our (and it's) abilities are. Without a good mix, you can't learn. You can't improve. You don't go from "noob" to expert just because you pitched a tent at an event.
I was not there. But feel the compulsion to weigh in... I would have been nervous taking my rig on any trail, IN DAYLIGHT, if I hadn't wheeled before. Hell, I've wheeled a ton and still deferred from a night run at River Shiver because I had not familiarized myself with area.
IMHO it is all on the driver for poor judgement.
I have also been on a night run where we started at 10am on the trail and didn't hit pavement until 4:30am. It is an epic story and is still one of the greatest memories I have. However, it was the result of poor judgement on our part-all of us. agreed to deviate from our original day plan to go with two other guys (who one of knew from wheeling way back) who offered to take us up this new trail. winching, broken birfield, de-fendering and an insane amount of chainsawing ensued. We were all pissed at the guys who took us up there, but were fully aware that it was 100% our fault for the decision we made. I was also with guys i knew well and trusted their spotting implicitly.
So, in closing, you dont go wheeling at night without accepting the probability, not possibility, that your rig will sustain some amount of damage.
IMHO it is all on the driver for poor judgement.
I have also been on a night run where we started at 10am on the trail and didn't hit pavement until 4:30am. It is an epic story and is still one of the greatest memories I have. However, it was the result of poor judgement on our part-all of us. agreed to deviate from our original day plan to go with two other guys (who one of knew from wheeling way back) who offered to take us up this new trail. winching, broken birfield, de-fendering and an insane amount of chainsawing ensued. We were all pissed at the guys who took us up there, but were fully aware that it was 100% our fault for the decision we made. I was also with guys i knew well and trusted their spotting implicitly.
So, in closing, you dont go wheeling at night without accepting the probability, not possibility, that your rig will sustain some amount of damage.
If you are going to participate in the activity of off-roading you must accept some level of liability. You must accept the fact that you may damage your vehicle, from minor scratches on axles and skid plates to completely totaling your vehicle. That being said we had a customer with a Stock height 70 FJ40 with a column shift 3 speed and a rear LSD that had a great time at GMP over 4 days and had plenty of trails that he was able to run. Including both UP and DOWN trail 2. (he did scratch his rear bumper and dent a hub cap)
So then the question becomes "Why do people come to GSMTR? Is it for the trail riding or is it for the camping and comradery? The obvious answer is Both but we need to decide which way we want to lean. Would you rather have the facilities of GMP or the graded gravel roads of CC that any stock Toyota could traverse. I personalty dont go to events for scenic mountain drives on gravel roads but i know that some people do.
I like GMP because for an event like GSMTR the facilities cant be beat. I haven't been to CC for a year or so but I would guess that it would be significantly more logistically challenging to host an event there. Where will the rock crawl be and how will stock trucks get to it? Blind fold race? Raffle?
My other complaint about CC is the trail fees. At $18 per head it will cost a family of 4, $72 per day to ride there. which if you stay for as long as we do you are looking at $360 in additional fees on top of registration if you plan to stay for 5 days.
Either way I will be there. I am working on 9 years in a row at GSMTR and would prefer if it was still in Tellico but I also had my fair share of complaints about Tellico as well. But trail 2 made it all worth it.
So then the question becomes "Why do people come to GSMTR? Is it for the trail riding or is it for the camping and comradery? The obvious answer is Both but we need to decide which way we want to lean. Would you rather have the facilities of GMP or the graded gravel roads of CC that any stock Toyota could traverse. I personalty dont go to events for scenic mountain drives on gravel roads but i know that some people do.
I like GMP because for an event like GSMTR the facilities cant be beat. I haven't been to CC for a year or so but I would guess that it would be significantly more logistically challenging to host an event there. Where will the rock crawl be and how will stock trucks get to it? Blind fold race? Raffle?
My other complaint about CC is the trail fees. At $18 per head it will cost a family of 4, $72 per day to ride there. which if you stay for as long as we do you are looking at $360 in additional fees on top of registration if you plan to stay for 5 days.
Either way I will be there. I am working on 9 years in a row at GSMTR and would prefer if it was still in Tellico but I also had my fair share of complaints about Tellico as well. But trail 2 made it all worth it.
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Where's the "I don't care where it is, just please don't have a baby blue tshirt again" option?? 
IMO (whatever that counts for) GSMTR will lose a big part of the "event" feel at CC compared to what I've seen in the last three years at GMP.
The best part about GMP is the 'closeness' of everything, not just the trails to camp, but the gathering places that it offers, it really encourages meeting new people, checking out all the trucks, and gives a sense of 'community' to the event.
The campground at windrock, though it has nice facilities, is large, spread out, and really doesn't offer the same kind of environment that GMP does. Access control would be nearly impossible and unless the entire camping area is rented out (which would be $$$), the 'event area' mentioned in the other thread is NOT what you're talking about in terms of a better arrangement than GMP. Its farther from the bathhouse/restrooms (ie I dont want to walk that far at night!), and IRRC turned into a mud pit when we were up there during a motocross event.
I could add a million comments about the trails, comparing GMP to CC, but the fact is, you won't be able to please everyone - someone is going to be unhappy no matter what location is chosen. I know for the 'little' event we put on every labor day, I've had to suck it up and simply say, majority rules - I do what will make the majority of people happy, and the rest can either come along and go with it, or stay home. (Sure I want everyone there, but that's their decision to make, not mine!).
It all comes down to what the event is really about - Sure, its a 'wheeling' event, but its also about the people, friendships, fellowship. You can hit the trails ANY weekend -- but how often can you get 150 of your best toyota friends together, with your families, and spend some quality time 'talkin trucks' ??
IMO (whatever that counts for) GSMTR will lose a big part of the "event" feel at CC compared to what I've seen in the last three years at GMP.
The best part about GMP is the 'closeness' of everything, not just the trails to camp, but the gathering places that it offers, it really encourages meeting new people, checking out all the trucks, and gives a sense of 'community' to the event.
The campground at windrock, though it has nice facilities, is large, spread out, and really doesn't offer the same kind of environment that GMP does. Access control would be nearly impossible and unless the entire camping area is rented out (which would be $$$), the 'event area' mentioned in the other thread is NOT what you're talking about in terms of a better arrangement than GMP. Its farther from the bathhouse/restrooms (ie I dont want to walk that far at night!), and IRRC turned into a mud pit when we were up there during a motocross event.
I could add a million comments about the trails, comparing GMP to CC, but the fact is, you won't be able to please everyone - someone is going to be unhappy no matter what location is chosen. I know for the 'little' event we put on every labor day, I've had to suck it up and simply say, majority rules - I do what will make the majority of people happy, and the rest can either come along and go with it, or stay home. (Sure I want everyone there, but that's their decision to make, not mine!).
It all comes down to what the event is really about - Sure, its a 'wheeling' event, but its also about the people, friendships, fellowship. You can hit the trails ANY weekend -- but how often can you get 150 of your best toyota friends together, with your families, and spend some quality time 'talkin trucks' ??
For those of you who weren't there or didn't get to see trail 2 on the day after the rain, here's a quick video we took of some of the trucks. Just about everyone had some kind of trouble at the 'top' of trail 2 where the rock steps were. It took a little more gas than most of us would prefer to use.
Remember, this was the main trails that got you to a lot of the others - it was classified as 'intermediate' if I remember correctly.
Remember, this was the main trails that got you to a lot of the others - it was classified as 'intermediate' if I remember correctly.
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Land Speeder
InstaH8R
Cool video! But not sure that it shows anything other than wet trails at GMP suck! Seriously, everytime I've been there when it rains makes the easy trails hard and undoable.
Can't blame anyone for mother nature.
Can't blame anyone for mother nature.
Agreed. I have video of you going up the rock garden as well - I'll post it as soon as I get thru processing them all!
I think that goes for anywhere. If it rains it can make a slight uphill dirt road impassable... (ok, maybe not that bad but you know what I mean)
Have you been to CC? If you think CC is nothing but gravel roads you are only fooling yourself.
At Trailfest most participants camp in the events area, which has controlled access and is not the same as the regular camping area.
Very true. As much as I hate their fee structure people still come in droves. Until people won't pay that they have us.
Why don't we just do CC in 2013,and if it doesn't work out move it back to GMP for 2014?
What's the harm in that?
Besides, if nothing else it's a change of scenery
What's the harm in that?
Besides, if nothing else it's a change of scenery
There are so many logistical things to plan for an event like GSMTR. I'd take the momentum that STLCA gained this year by hosting the event after a 3 year break, and keep it going at a venue that has known attributes (good or bad). Take the lessons learned and apply them to next year.
If trail conditions are a problem, then let's steer into the turn. Educating drivers about the current trail conditions upon arrival is one thought - not just a printed map. Getting the word out early in the week about certain spots or wet conditions could avert some of the backlash we're hearing now. Also, I've got to say night driving "after we all had a few beverages" should not be condoned, trail conditions be damned.
Take it a step further and offer to assist the park managers in correcting issues. I know there were discussions this year, but I'm not sure what was ultimately discussed or changed. From my personal experience with the park managers, they are hoping to improve the trails for all types of drivers, noobs and hardcore.
With so many events on the calendar and wanting to see them all, I'm still undecided on the poll. I've only been to CC once. It was a long day on one trail and several recovery events occurred during the day. We were miles from the front gate and even further from camp. Luckily no one broke. I'd like to go back and see more of what they have to offer, but I hope the trails and ratings are better now.
If trail conditions are a problem, then let's steer into the turn. Educating drivers about the current trail conditions upon arrival is one thought - not just a printed map. Getting the word out early in the week about certain spots or wet conditions could avert some of the backlash we're hearing now. Also, I've got to say night driving "after we all had a few beverages" should not be condoned, trail conditions be damned.
Take it a step further and offer to assist the park managers in correcting issues. I know there were discussions this year, but I'm not sure what was ultimately discussed or changed. From my personal experience with the park managers, they are hoping to improve the trails for all types of drivers, noobs and hardcore.
With so many events on the calendar and wanting to see them all, I'm still undecided on the poll. I've only been to CC once. It was a long day on one trail and several recovery events occurred during the day. We were miles from the front gate and even further from camp. Luckily no one broke. I'd like to go back and see more of what they have to offer, but I hope the trails and ratings are better now.
I agree with the education of the trail conditions, both drivers and owners. What if there was a driver's meeting each morning to go over current trail conditions? Attendance would be optional (most of the hardcore guys wouldn't come anyway) and that way everyone could be alerted of areas of concern. If I sponsor again next year I would be willing to host these meetings (help would be needed from scouts on the condition of the trails of course.) Also, what about some extra signage? We could have some warning signs we could throw up and warn people of hazardous (more than usual) conditions.