Fuel tank pickup unit 1979 FJ40 (1 Viewer)

[TULAX17]

Have you checked that your lines / connections are all good from tank to filter to pump to carb? I just went through some similar issues...I checked all the same things as you and ended up finding a pinhole leak in the hard fuel line where it runs along the frame (passenger side below the tank). The fuel evaporates quickly so I hadn't noticed it leaking when sitting. A cheap test to rule out everything tank to pump is running a soft line from your pump to a gas can in the cab, although suggest test driving that in a safe place. Good luck.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

Here are the questions I would ask... and the procedures I would follow:

When it died at 60:

• was it "under load" (e.g. uphill, pedal to the metal)?
• did you turn off the key and coast to a stop and verify there was fuel in the carb sight glass?

If it died "under load" and there was no gas in the sight glass, that could indicate the secondary is not working properly... or something is preventing enough fuel from being delivered to the carb.

It could also be a problem with the coil... the coil isn't losing oil, is it? Test the coil and make sure it's working properly.

Assuming it's a fuel delivery issue (that's what I think it is):

• I know you said you checked for fuel line/filter/pump leaks... but, as @TULAX17 said, are you sure there is no air getting into the fuel delivery system? I would first do as TULAX17 suggested, with a small deviation... I would run soft line (with a fuel filter), from the tank to the fuel pump input and see if you can duplicate the problem...
  • if you can't duplicate it, the issue may be with your soft/hard lines/fuel filter, from the tank to the pump.
  • if you can duplicate it, try it TULUX17's way, using a gas can in the cab... to see if the tank/pickup is the issue.
• Have you blown/cleaned out your hard lines (EDIT: I got confused on the year of your FJ40... I don't know where your hard lines run on your '79) you may need to ignore this --> along the passenger frame rail? These lines are the low point on the fuel system and can accumulate water and crud... they could be carrying enough fuel until the carb secondary asks for a big increase in fuel for "under load".
  • disconnect both ends and blow compressed air thru them...
  • maybe also shoot some carb cleaner into the lines and blow them out again.
• Have you tried an Okie Rebuild on the carb?
  • Get it started,
  • run it up to 2800 rpm and cover the top of the air horn until the engine dies (if you use your hand, use a welders glove to ensure you don't get burned).... I take a piece of pasteboard and poke a hole for the threaded rod to protrude thru... you'll feel a huge vacuum suck the pasteboard to the air horn... the idea is to suck any crud out of the carb passages...
  • When the engine dies, restart it and see if it made a difference... you can repeat the procedure... if it helps and recurs, you should invest in a real carb rebuild.

HTH​

 

[uwum15]

Have you checked that your lines / connections are all good from tank to filter to pump to carb? I just went through some similar issues...I checked all the same things as you and ended up finding a pinhole leak in the hard fuel line where it runs along the frame (passenger side below the tank). The fuel evaporates quickly so I hadn't noticed it leaking when sitting. A cheap test to rule out everything tank to pump is running a soft line from your pump to a gas can in the cab, although suggest test driving that in a safe place. Good luck.

Thank you, what type of soft line did you use and were your issues identical or just somewhat similar? I'll try that for sure, this has been so frustrating...

 

[uwum15]

Here are the questions I would ask... and the procedures I would follow:

When it died at 60:

• was it "under load" (e.g. uphill, pedal to the metal)?
• did you turn off the key and coast to a stop and verify there was fuel in the carb sight glass?

If it died "under load" and there was no gas in the sight glass, that could indicate the secondary is not working properly... or something is preventing enough fuel from being delivered to the carb.

It could also be a problem with the coil... the coil isn't losing oil, is it? Test the coil and make sure it's working properly.

Assuming it's a fuel delivery issue (that's what I think it is):

• I know you said you checked for fuel line/filter/pump leaks... but, as @TULAX17 said, are you sure there is no air getting into the fuel delivery system? I would first do as TULAX17 suggested, with a small deviation... I would run soft line (with a fuel filter), from the tank to the fuel pump input and see if you can duplicate the problem...
  • if you can't duplicate it, the issue may be with your soft/hard lines/fuel filter, from the tank to the pump.
  • if you can duplicate it, try it TULUX17's way, using a gas can in the cab... to see if the tank/pickup is the issue.
• Have you blown/cleaned out your hard lines (EDIT: I got confused on the year of your FJ40... I don't know where your hard lines run on your '79) you may need to ignore this --> along the passenger frame rail? These lines are the low point on the fuel system and can accumulate water and crud... they could be carrying enough fuel until the carb secondary asks for a big increase in fuel for "under load".
  • disconnect both ends and blow compressed air thru them...
  • maybe also shoot some carb cleaner into the lines and blow them out again.
• Have you tried an Okie Rebuild on the carb?
  • Get it started,
  • run it up to 2800 rpm and cover the top of the air horn until the engine dies (if you use your hand, use a welders glove to ensure you don't get burned).... I take a piece of pasteboard and poke a hole for the threaded rod to protrude thru... you'll feel a huge vacuum suck the pasteboard to the air horn... the idea is to suck any crud out of the carb passages...
  • When the engine dies, restart it and see if it made a difference... you can repeat the procedure... if it helps and recurs, you should invest in a real carb rebuild.

HTH​

I appreciate that input, I'll try this all over the next week or two. As per your questions: Yes, it continually died either under load or going uphill. The only new thing, and it only happened last night, was the osculating idle rpm like someone was pulling the choke and then stalling it in and repeating every 5 seconds for about 15 minutes.
As for the fuel pump/line/filter, we replaced all of them but I'll double check the fuel line (it does run under the passenger step in the frame rail). The mechanic said (I think so anyways) that they blew smoke through it and didn't find any leaks. I'll try the Okie Rebuild too when I can, thanks for your input. What carb rebuild would you recommend?

 

[Solace in Solitude]

The oscillating sounds like crap in the carb --- the Okie Rebuild may clear it out (for a while)... could also be a bad idle solenoid... I guess... @Pin_Head??

Go to a car parts and ask for 5/16" (assuming your '79 uses 5/16") SAE30R6 soft fuel line - I order 25' rspools on Amazon Amazon.com: HBD Thermoid NBR/PVC SAE30R6 Fuel Line Hose, 5/16" x 25' Length, 0.3125" ID, Black: Industrial & Scientific

I would first speak with Mark (@65swb45) at marksoffroad.net and/or Jim (@FJ40Jim) at tlcperformance.com - they are the aisin carb gurus... be sure to PHONE each of them - their numbers are on their webpages - if you can't wait for them to rebuild it, you can...

... rebuild it yourself, if you are detail oriented... to rebuild it yourself, view @Pin_Head's youtube videos and pay close attention to his warnings about being very organized and taking a lot of pictures... you can use this rebuild kit... (@78fj40mg found it on Amazon at half the price it is elsewhere) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C7XNMI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Good luck!!

 

[Pin_Head]

I read the whole thread and I'm not clear on that the problem is other than there is air in the fuel filter and it shows symptoms of fuel starvation at high speed. Are you sure there is no rust / dirt / junk in the tank obstructing fuel flow? One reason you may get bubbles in the fuel filter is if there is a vacuum on the inlet to the fuel pump. this would be consistent with a blocked / plugged inlet at the tank.

 

[3_puppies]

Devin, my 2 cents is to use a different mechanic.
there was no reason to remove the intake.

X2 to Pin_Head it still seems like a fuel delivery issue. could even be something floating around in the tank.
is the tank full when this happens?

you need to start from the beginning. good consistent fuel flow to the carb. is the fuel pump Aisin/Toyota?

Paul

 

[Pin_Head]

Measure the fuel delivery: Disconnect the distributor center wire and the fuel inlet at the carb. It should be able to pump about half a cup of fuel in 15 seconds of cranking.

 

[uwum15]

The oscillating sounds like crap in the carb --- the Okie Rebuild may clear it out (for a while)... could also be a bad idle solenoid... I guess... @Pin_Head??

Go to a car parts and ask for 5/16" (assuming your '79 uses 5/16") SAE30R6 soft fuel line - I order 25' rspools on Amazon Amazon.com: HBD Thermoid NBR/PVC SAE30R6 Fuel Line Hose, 5/16" x 25' Length, 0.3125" ID, Black: Industrial & Scientific

I would first speak with Mark (@65swb45) at marksoffroad.net and/or Jim (@FJ40Jim) at tlcperformance.com - they are the aisin carb gurus... be sure to PHONE each of them - their numbers are on their webpages - if you can't wait for them to rebuild it, you can...

... rebuild it yourself, if you are detail oriented... to rebuild it yourself, view @Pin_Head's youtube videos and pay close attention to his warnings about being very organized and taking a lot of pictures... you can use this rebuild kit... (@78fj40mg found it on Amazon at half the price it is elsewhere) Amazon.com: Standard Motor Products 791B Carburetor Kit: Automotive

Good luck!!

I'll give them a call. I did replace the fast idle solenoid about a year ago and that solved one problem but that was before all of these other issues were known. Thanks!

 

[uwum15]

Devin, my 2 cents is to use a different mechanic.
there was no reason to remove the intake.

X2 to Pin_Head it still seems like a fuel delivery issue. could even be something floating around in the tank.
is the tank full when this happens?

you need to start from the beginning. good consistent fuel flow to the carb. is the fuel pump Aisin/Toyota?

Paul

The fuel pump I bought off of CCOT Replacing worn or damaged Fuel Pump but I'm not sure...I recall looking for a smaller gasket that was in a clam-shell looking metal compartment on my carburetor; it wasn't there so that lead me to think it was Aisin but that's all I remember and I didn't see anything on the fuel pump I bought. It did match exactly the one that came off of it and the spacer on my engine block stayed so I just reattached to it (my Cruiser had been sitting in a field for a few years before I bought it and hadn't been driven so maybe the previous owner put on the wrong part and I just matched a part assuming it was the correct one?).
Thanks for the advice on the mechanic, I had never used him but he used to be the guy that always worked on Cruisers around here (apparently). It sounds like he was just creating a few extra billable hours, I'll look around for some other recommendations near Missoula. Thank you for the input.

 

[Pin_Head]

Using an old style screw top fuel pump with a new style insulator / spacer won't work because the pump won't have enough stroke to pump the fuel.

 

[3_puppies]

my cruiser had been sitting in a field for a few years before I bought it and hadn't been driven so maybe the previous owner put on the wrong part and I just matched a part assuming it was the correct one?).
Thanks for the advice on the mechanic, I had never used him but he used to be the guy that always worked on Cruisers around here (apparently). It sounds like he was just creating a few extra billable hours, I'll look around for some other recommendations near Missoula. Thank you for the input.

that sentence there may be key. sitting in a field for a few years. I don't recall that stated anywhere in this thread, I'm really leaning toward gas tank issue.

I'd be able to work on it, but I'm 100 miles away. If you have AAA plus it would be free to get it towed to me.

Using an old style screw top fuel pump with a new style insulator / spacer won't work because the pump won't have enough stroke to pump the fuel.

as Pin_Head stated about the fuel pump, got any pics of the pump installed?

 

[uwum15]

that sentence there may be key. sitting in a field for a few years. I don't recall that stated anywhere in this thread, I'm really leaning toward gas tank issue.

I'd be able to work on it, but I'm 100 miles away. If you have AAA plus it would be free to get it towed to me.



as Pin_Head stated about the fuel pump, got any pics of the pump installed?

 

[uwum15]

That was the old pump and the new pump I put in, and I used the same spacer that was already on the engine block because I couldn't get it off. At the time (I think in a previous thread about Fuel Pumps from me), we couldn't get pressure (0-1) but now we have about 4 from what I'm told. The mechanic said he emptied it out and replaced some of the hardline, blew smoke under pressure and didn't see any pin-holes.

 

[Stumpalama]

That was the old pump and the new pump I put in, and I used the same spacer that was already on the engine block because I couldn't get it off. At the time (I think in a previous thread about Fuel Pumps from me), we couldn't get pressure (0-1) but now we have about 4 from what I'm told. The mechanic said he emptied it out and replaced some of the hardline, blew smoke under pressure and didn't see any pin-holes.

Soooooo, what was the resolution to this saga?!?!?! I hate finding old threads with unsolved mysteries.
Update please!

 

[uwum15]

Soooooo, what was the resolution to this saga?!?!?! I hate finding old threads with unsolved mysteries.
Updat please!

Thanks for reading that novella, sorry to not have updated it. After a few more mechanics and 2 years of not knowing, on a hunch I ordered a 3rd fuel pump and it has ran great since then. At the end of the day, I had ordered two pumps (about a year apart) from CCOT and even though They were original parts, they both had a defective part and it was allowing fuel to empty for the pump (I can’t remember if it was a faulty internal bladder?). Out of desperation I ordered the 3rd pump because nothing else really worked and it was all that made sense, so I think I went to SOR and got an original from them and it fixed 95% of my issues. It runs pretty well now, thanks for checking and sorry to not have updated my saga. Honestly I felt like I had wasted a lot of peoples’ time but it’s a great forum and I need to do better about contributing.

 

[Stumpalama]

Thanks for reading that novella, sorry to not have updated it. After a few more mechanics and 2 years of not knowing, on a hunch I ordered a 3rd fuel pump and it has ran great since then. At the end of the day, I had ordered two pumps (about a year apart) from CCOT and even though They were original parts, they both had a defective part and it was allowing fuel to empty for the pump (I can’t remember if it was a faulty internal bladder?). Out of desperation I ordered the 3rd pump because nothing else really worked and it was all that made sense, so I think I went to SOR and got an original from them and it fixed 95% of my issues. It runs pretty well now, thanks for checking and sorry to not have updated my saga. Honestly I felt like I had wasted a lot of peoples’ time but it’s a great forum and I need to do better about contributing.

Glad you got it figured out... FWIW, I was leaning to bad fuel pump... did you do the standard fuel pump checks, per the FSM?

 

[uwum15]

Glad you got it figured out... FWIW, I was leaning to bad fuel pump... did you do the standard fuel pump checks, per the FSM?

Honestly I am not mechanically inclined so I was hiring it done. I don’t have the tools to get too far into repairs so I was trying to learn while I had it in the shop with a mechanic which did help me a lot but I’m not sure if they followed that or not.