Fuel tank pickup unit 1979 FJ40

[uwum15]

Apparently I might have a hole in my fuel tank pickup unit on my 1979 FJ40. Has anyone had experience with this-how to test it or how to fix it? I've looked everywhere and can't really find a part to buy, will another year or another model pickup tube work if I can't find one? I am getting air in my fuel filter and that is what my mechanic thinks might be the problem. Now that I've looked around and can't locate them I'm open to ideas or un-conventional fixes unless someone has one for sale. Thank you,

 

[Michael B]

CCOT has the entire unit in an after market version that works well enough. Be sure to check the clocking on it (they will know what your talking about).

 

[Solace in Solitude]

What fuel filter are you using?

I use glass filters, with replacable elements... The ends unscrew.

The first one I installed allowed mass air when the secondary kicked in (pedal to the metal, up a hill)... It turned out one end was not sealing fully, when screwed together.

I replaced it... No further problem.

My point... Are you sure the filter isn't the culprit? Or the hard lines... Or the connections between the hard and soft lines... Or, the soft line connection to the tank... Or the soft lines themselves... Are they crumbling?

Edit: my issue only occurred when the secondary kicked in... It was fine to that point.

 

[shawnfj40]

My first thought was, is the tank plumbed correctly?

 

[Solace in Solitude]

^^X2^^ I asked that in his other thread 1979 FJ 40 Fuel Pumps last paragraph of post# 13

 

[3_puppies]

My first thought was, is the tank plumbed correctly?

^^X2^^ I asked that in his other thread 1979 FJ 40 Fuel Pumps last paragraph of post# 13

I don't think it would run at all if it was plumbed wrong. The return ends right at the top of the tank so unless the tank was overfull it would not pick up any gas. I would remove the pickup and see what it looks like first before buying one. To access the pickup, you'll need to drop the tank down several inches to get the screws out to remove the pickup assembly. When I did one many years ago I did not have to remove the tank completely but it would be easier.

What do you mean by getting air into the filter? the gas filter doesn't have to be completely full.

how full is the gas tank? have you tried filling it up and still have an issue? only problem would be if you then need to remove the tank, it would be full.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

@3_puppies "What do you mean by getting air into the filter? the gas filter doesn't have to be completely full."

When the secondary kicked in, the fuel filter allowed the fuel pump to suck air... enough air that the carb sight glass showed no fuel at all.

Replacing the fuel filter eliminated the problem.

 

[3_puppies]

@3_puppies "What do you mean by getting air into the filter? the gas filter doesn't have to be completely full."

When the secondary kicked in, the fuel filter allowed the fuel pump to suck air... enough air that the carb sight glass showed no fuel at all.

Replacing the fuel filter eliminated the problem.

I understand your issue with the replaceable element, but the original poster stated he was getting air in the fuel filter and that is what the mechanic thinks is the problem.

 

[uwum15]

What fuel filter are you using?

I use glass filters, with replacable elements... The ends unscrew.

The first one I installed allowed mass air when the secondary kicked in (pedal to the metal, up a hill)... It turned out one end was not sealing fully, when screwed together.

I replaced it... No further problem.

My point... Are you sure the filter isn't the culprit? Or the hard lines... Or the connections between the hard and soft lines... Or, the soft line connection to the tank... Or the soft lines themselves... Are they crumbling?

Edit: my issue only occurred when the secondary kicked in... It was fine to that point.

Thank you, that actually sounds a lot like my issues too. What do you mean by the secondary kicking in? I had problems at high RPMs and going uphill too... I have a clear fuel filter on there now and we did find a pin-hole in the hard lines where it attaches to the frame by the passenger door. We can see air coming into the filter as it is now with those hard lines replaced. Thank you for the help,

 

[uwum15]

We dropped the fuel tank and did a smoke test and everything looks good from my tank (the fuel pickup tube too) to the fuel pump mounted on the engine block. My mechanic thinks it might be a carburetor issue not and wants me to look around for a remanufactured carburetor…He said he can smell a good amount of fuel so his guess is that the carb is cracked. Does that sound correct and are remanufactured carbs worth getting or should I start with a carb kit? I just don't necessarily want to throw good money after bad if it just makes sense to get the remanufactured carb in but I'd also like to entertain less expensive ideas. Will putting a Weber carb ruin the value and appeal? It does to me but I wasn't sure how most people viewed that since almost everything on mine is original still or refurbished with original design/parts. Thanks,

 

[3_puppies]

I thought 1 of the carb guru's said the 79-80 carb was junk.

better off with a later unit.

stay with a stock aisin unit.

the "mechanic" is going in several directions, first it was the pump, then it was air in the filter, now carb.

I think you need to start from the beginning. was it running fine until the pump issue? what was wrong with the pump?

 

[Solace in Solitude]

Thank you, that actually sounds a lot like my issues too. What do you mean by the secondary kicking in? I had problems at high RPMs and going uphill too... I have a clear fuel filter on there now and we did find a pin-hole in the hard lines where it attaches to the frame by the passenger door. We can see air coming into the filter as it is now with those hard lines replaced. Thank you for the help,

Sorry, I didn't see this...

When your engine is under load... E.g. Going uphill, with your foot buried in the gas pedal, the carb's secondary jets kick in and sucks considerably more gas. Any leak that allows air into the fuel delivery system, is magnified. You may not notice a problem at all until the secondary kicks in.

What happened with mine was the glass, replaceable element filter didn't seal completely. The secondary sucked mass quantities of air.

I recreated the issue by driving up a steep grade, burying my foot in the pedal. Once it occurred, the engine died.

I switched the ignition off, threw it in neutral and coasted to a safe stop.

Then, I pulled the air cleaner and checked the carb sight glass... No fuel visible.

I was in the middle of no where and didn't have another filter, just replacement elements. So, I removed the bad filter and patched a soft line in and drove home. No more engine failures, from lack of fuel. When I put on a new filter, I made sure it sealed fully.

Props to @FJ40Jim - I called him from the middle of no where and he explained how to capture the issue by switching off the ignition and shifting to neutral and coasting to a safe stop. This procedure leaves the fuel delivery system exactly as it was when the failure occurred.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I thought 1 of the carb guru's said the 79-80 carb was junk.

better off with a later unit.

stay with a stock aisin unit.

the "mechanic" is going in several directions, first it was the pump, then it was air the filter, now carb.

I think you need to start from the beginning. was it running fine until the pump issue? what was wrong with the pump?

^^X2^^ @65swb45 and @FJ40Jim both said '79-'80 are junk.

Several have bought new @Trollhole carb's and installed them while they source a good Aisin replacement carb. Then, you can rebuild it, with a kit and @Pin_Head 's YouTube videos... Or pay one of the gurus to rebuild it.... Or, stay with the TrollHole... But, TrollHole carb's only work with desmogged engines.

I actually have a spare '78 Aisin carb and a rebuild kit... I planned to rebuild it when I need it. But, I might consider selling it... Might not... Not sure right now.

If your engine is desmogged, check with @GA Architect and see if he's finished with his TrollHole carb... He may not want to part with it. But, he may be aware of someone who does...

Hth

 

[uwum15]

I thought 1 of the carb guru's said the 79-80 carb was junk.

better off with a later unit.

stay with a stock aisin unit.

the "mechanic" is going in several directions, first it was the pump, then it was air in the filter, now carb.

I think you need to start from the beginning. was it running fine until the pump issue? what was wrong with the pump?

Thank you, yes it was running pretty well until the fuel pump went out. I fixed the fuel pump and now all of these other problems have started. The only things I did once the pump went out was to replace the pump and then these issues started immediately. The last time I had driven it before the fuel pump went out I was on the highway going 75 miles an hour on a camping trip and it ran great.

 

[uwum15]

Sorry, I didn't see this...

When your engine is under load... E.g. Going uphill, with your foot buried in the gas pedal, the carb's secondary jets kick in and sucks considerably more gas. Any leak that allows air into the fuel delivery system, is magnified. You may not notice a problem at all until the secondary kicks in.

What happened with mine was the glass, replaceable element filter didn't seal completely. The secondary sucked mass quantities of air.

I recreated the issue by driving up a steep grade, burying my foot in the pedal. Once it occurred, the engine died.

I switched the ignition off, threw it in neutral and coasted to a safe stop.

Then, I pulled the air cleaner and checked the carb sight glass... No fuel visible.

I was in the middle of no where and didn't have another filter, just replacement elements. So, I removed the bad filter and patched a soft line in and drove home. No more engine failures, from lack of fuel. When I put on a new filter, I made sure it sealed fully.

Props to @FJ40Jim - I called him from the middle of no where and he explained how to capture the issue by switching off the ignition and shifting to neutral and coasting to a safe stop. This procedure leaves the fuel delivery system exactly as it was when the failure occurred.

In a previous thread someone had told me the same thing about quickly shutting off the engine. I had the same exact problem going uphill and it was also very sluggish once I got into third or fourth gear. Even going 40 miles an hour in town, it would cut out on me. I shut the engine off coasted to a stop-there was no fuel in the carb sight bubble. I'll check in with the others you mentioned, thank you.

 

[FJ40Jim]

No fuel in the carb sight glass is probably a fuel delivery problem, not a carb problem.
Look for weak fuel pump, plugged filter, plugged fuel pickup, etc.

There is an inlet screen on top of the carb needle valve, which could be restricted w/ trash, but to get that clean the carb air horn needs to be removed and disassembled.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I must be overlooking this... you said you fixed the fuel pump... but, what does that mean? Did you replace the pump or what?

Are you sure your fuel pump isn't dumping fuel into the crankcase? Sniff your dipstick and see if it smells like gas... if it does, don't run the engine until you replace the pump and change the oil an filter.

Have you checked the fuel pump to ensure it's pumping 3-5 psi?

For fuel pump: Disconnect the feeder line, to the carb, point it into a receptacle, 15 seconds of engine cranking should result in about oneh one-half cup of fuel in the receptacle. If you don't get enough fuel, you either still have a flow restriction or the pump needs to be replaced

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For fuel pickup: In another thread, @Shark56 suggested, "Take your gas cap off, blow air back through fuel line from filter connection. You should hear air bubbling in tank. Could be your fuel pick up in tank is blocked. @Stumper's issues (in that thread were a bit different, unfortunately he never posted a resolution.​

If your 'fuel pump fix' was the result of crap getting thru to the carb, you may have to pull and disassemble the carb air horn, as Jim mentioned, to clean the inlet screen.

 

[uwum15]

I left it at my mechanic's shop over the weekend so I can't check to smell if there's fuel the dipstick but I will Monday. I did replace the fuel pump with a new fuel pump from CCOT. Originally with the fuel pump hooked up to all three lines and it was basically registering a 0 psi. When we blocked the return fuel line it was around 4 psi. With the return line plugged it also allowed me to get up to 60 miles an hour although it felt sluggish and would occasionally lug for my lack of fuel. I don't know if my mechanic checked the few will pick up tube specifically, he did empty the tank and put smoke in and didn't find any leaks. I can ask him if doing that would in anyway confirm the pick up is working properly.

 

[uwum15]

No fuel in the carb sight glass is probably a fuel delivery problem, not a carb problem.
Look for weak fuel pump, plugged filter, plugged fuel pickup, etc.

There is an inlet screen on top of the carb needle valve, which could be restricted w/ trash, but to get that clean the carb air horn needs to be removed and disassembled.

Thank you, I will check this on Monday as well.

 

[uwum15]

And the saga continues...My mechanic pulled the intake manifold and the carb, cleaned it all up and put in new gaskets, etc. He finally called me to say that it's running lean and he thinks the carb is my issue and recommended I get a new one ordered. He has it set to idle high and when I first got it back it wouldn't start-from what I could see there wasn't any fuel getting squirted into the carb with or without the choke pulled. We added a little manually and it started up and for a few days it ran perfectly actually (he had mentioned that he had used propane or something to help it keep an idle??).

For this next sentence, I might be slightly off so please take it with a grain of salt: He said he ran air through the carb assuming to find something blocked but didn't' find a blockage; he has the manifold cleaned and there aren't any cracks or leaks with new all gaskets from a carb kit, and we have a new fuel line, fuel filter and pump as well. Our fuel pump pressure is around 4 but he said he's gone through it and can't think of anything else it would be except for a bad carburetor.

Yesterday I took it on the highway and for about 5 minutes it was great then at about 60 mph it started gasping for fuel and not running well. Fuel was not in the sight bowl when I pulled over but then if I kept it under about 40mph it ran fine. That evening (it ran fine through town) I went to start it and it wouldn't idle. After a lot of cranks and dying, it finally kept an idle although it was struggling-with the choke out it would almost die, sputter, then rev back up to about 2500 rpm on the tack like it should with the choke out, but then immediately fall back down to either die or barely hang on then start the process over again. I was stranded for about 30 minutes until finally it just kept up at 2500, I eased the choke back in (left it barely out so it wouldn't die) and limped home. It almost felt like something was clogging the fuel filter but it was dark and I couldn't see.

My objective has been to keep this original but I'm afraid I'm running out of options. Does anyone recommend a solution or am I in need of a new carburetor? If so, any recommendations? I hate not staying original but I need the thing to be reliable so I can enjoy it. Thanks in advance, hopefully one day I know enough to contribute and help others.
Devin