Front wheel studs information (1 Viewer)

[LandCruzrNY]

I can't seem to find the post from years ago when someone stated how to determine the type of steel, and strength of various Toyota bolts, and studs. I've searched and can't find it.

I am anxious to know the details on the strengths, type of steel, and any sheer information on the front wheel studs.

Recently I brought my cruiser to a tire shop to simply have them mount four new tires for me.

My first inclination that things were wrong was when I explained the torque rating the girl at the front counter insured me that they knew exactly what to do. But of course you do.

45 minutes later I could hear the impact wrench grinding the Lugnuts tighter and tighter. Again, again, again. By the time I went out to assess the situation, a total of four broken. They said it was my fault because the studs were rusted out.
I explained to them that it is not stainless steel, and because the outside of the stud is exposed to the elements, it will absolutely corrode slightly overtime. The knuckles were just completed by me in November and included all new studs. I told them that the issue wasn't the studs, it was that they had been over torque. She told me that they know what they are doing, they are experts. No doubt, I'm sure they are. That problem obviously turned into additional problems because they didn't use the proper studs. when they removed the hub, they obviously didn't replace any of the parts that are not reusable. And after driving it for a mile or so I started to feel the wobble, the hub was extremely hot, and the spring washer on the end of the axle was not present. epic failure.

Fortunately I reached out to senior management quickly and I am glad that they are choosing the correct action, which will be to bring it to Toyota and have the hub rebuilt. I brought it there, there was no grease. There was no washer on the outside. Two of the cone washers were missing.
They photographed everything as it came apart, this was less than four hours after I left the tire shop.

So, I'm curious about the strength of these bolts. Obviously over Twerking them is a different strength not related to the sheer strength. So, any information I can get would be great.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Standard bolt torque requirements are listed in the introduction section of the FSM for your truck.
Torque settings are tabled. Bolt tensile strength is not.

Lots of tire shops use torque sticks/ torque bars. But lots still don't.

I use a bit of grease on wheel studs.
Old skool wisdom was never grease wheel studs/nuts as grease let's them work loose.

I did a bunch of reading years ago. Decided that this is a myth. Failure to fit wheels correctly, or failure to torque nuts properly let's then come loose.
Better to have nuts spin on/off freely than gall the thread and stretch the studs because there's a bit of corrosion and excess friction.

 

[JoeCova]

These are 30 year old cars with rusted and stretched threads. It’s unusual that 4 broke but it’s not a big deal to replace them. I’m not sure what value there is on trying to get the specific bolt strength of a wheel stud.

 

[jht3]

I use a bit of grease on wheel studs.

be very careful with that. grease, anti-seize, etc change the torque value and you are most likely over torqueing your studs.

These are 30 year old cars with rusted and stretched threads. It’s unusual that 4 broke but it’s not a big deal to replace them.

except he said he JUST replaced all the studs. and when the tire shop went to replace the studs, by pulling the hub and rotor, they failed epically.

I’m not sure what value there is on trying to get the specific bolt strength of a wheel stud.

i don't know either. show them the lug nut torque value called out in the FSM and ask what they torqued to. via torque wrench or torque stick also matters.

 

[mudgudgeon]

be very careful with that. grease, anti-seize, etc change the torque value and you are most likely over torqueing your studs.

I use a torque wrench and torque to 100lb.

I also think over torquing due to lube is less destructive than overtorquing due to corrosion/galling and siezed threads.

I had tires fitted not long after buying my current cruiser.
The tire shop torqued with the ugga dugga gun.
I'd had the front wheels off previously and lubed studs. Front wheel nuts undid OK, clearly overtightened.
The rears, I hadn't previously touched, so threads were dry. I had to jump on a breaker bar to crack them loose.

 

[Broski]

I use a torque wrench and torque to 100lb.

I also think over torquing due to lube is less destructive than overtorquing due to corrosion/galling and siezed threads.

I had tires fitted not long after buying my current cruiser.
The tire shop torqued with the ugga dugga gun.
I'd had the front wheels off previously and lubed studs. Front wheel nuts undid OK, clearly overtightened.
The rears, I hadn't previously touched, so threads were dry. I had to jump on a breaker bar to crack them loose.

I’m no expert, but I have been putting a dab of grease on my lug nuts forever and I’m older then dirt.
Not every time just when they’re dry or rusty.
Never been a issue

 

[Broski]

I can't seem to find the post from years ago when someone stated how to determine the type of steel, and strength of various Toyota bolts, and studs. I've searched and can't find it.

I am anxious to know the details on the strengths, type of steel, and any sheer information on the front wheel studs.

Recently I brought my cruiser to a tire shop to simply have them mount four new tires for me.

My first inclination that things were wrong was when I explained the torque rating the girl at the front counter insured me that they knew exactly what to do. But of course you do.

45 minutes later I could hear the impact wrench grinding the Lugnuts tighter and tighter. Again, again, again. By the time I went out to assess the situation, a total of four broken. They said it was my fault because the studs were rusted out.
I explained to them that it is not stainless steel, and because the outside of the stud is exposed to the elements, it will absolutely corrode slightly overtime. The knuckles were just completed by me in November and included all new studs. I told them that the issue wasn't the studs, it was that they had been over torque. She told me that they know what they are doing, they are experts. No doubt, I'm sure they are. That problem obviously turned into additional problems because they didn't use the proper studs. when they removed the hub, they obviously didn't replace any of the parts that are not reusable. And after driving it for a mile or so I started to feel the wobble, the hub was extremely hot, and the spring washer on the end of the axle was not present. epic failure.

Fortunately I reached out to senior management quickly and I am glad that they are choosing the correct action, which will be to bring it to Toyota and have the hub rebuilt. I brought it there, there was no grease. There was no washer on the outside. Two of the cone washers were missing.
They photographed everything as it came apart, this was less than four hours after I left the tire shop.

So, I'm curious about the strength of these bolts. Obviously over Twerking them is a different strength not related to the sheer strength. So, any information I can get would be great.

I’m confused if you just rebuilt the knuckles and you were just getting tires why were they in the hub ?
What spring washer ?
I know of no spring washer on a 80 axle.
Do you mean the snap ring ?
There’s no reason to be in the hub if you were just getting tires.

 

[jonheld]

I live in the northeast. Anti Seize goes on EVERYTHING including wheel studs. Been doing this for 30 years.

 

[COYS]

Sorry to hear about ur tire shop situation.

It’s 2024 and we still have people who struggle with the concept of torque wrenches. Lol

 

[duece71]

Would it be prudent to drive home from the tire shop and check the lug nuts? Assuming the tire the chosen tire shop didnt snap off the lugs.

 

[mudgudgeon]

YES.
EVERY.
DAMN.
TIME!

 

[Broski]

Unless you know your shop and you know they do things right !
I have used the same shop for decades they do things right and use a torque wrench. All the work is done right out front so you can see what there doing.
I'm also friends with the owners and I like to tip the Tech as I know that they don't make a lot and I want them to take extra care with my Junk.
With 5 vehicles & two trailers I'm in there a lot. once or twice a year I bring a dozen donuts for the crew a little kindness go's a long ways !

 

[Marvelicious]

View attachment 3668590

Standard bolt torque requirements are listed in the introduction section of the FSM for your truck.
Torque settings are tabled. Bolt tensile strength is not.

Lots of tire shops use torque sticks/ torque bars. But lots still don't.

I use a bit of grease on wheel studs.
Old skool wisdom was never grease wheel studs/nuts as grease let's them work loose.

I did a bunch of reading years ago. Decided that this is a myth. Failure to fit wheels correctly, or failure to torque nuts properly let's then come loose.
Better to have nuts spin on/off freely than gall the thread and stretch the studs because there's a bit of corrosion and excess friction.

I don't buy that nonsense at all. Sounds like a myth dreamed up by tire shop owners who want to save the extra cost and time of applying anti-seize. Personally, I run on the assumption that most threads will perform better if doped with something. If it doesn't need anti-seize, it could need loctite. Obviously I don't really apply it to everything, but it's always in the back of my head as something to consider.

Would it be prudent to drive home from the tire shop and check the lug nuts? Assuming the tire the chosen tire shop didnt snap off the lugs.

I mean... I guess it'll tell you not to go back to that tire shop, but if you get home and find them overtorqued, the damage has already been done.

 

[ZackR]

When I rotate my tires I lightly run the lugs down with an impact (starting at the bottom so the wheel is flush) and then finish them up with a torque wrench. Any decent tire shop does the same.

After driving around for a day or two I check the torque again. I also subscribe to the idea that a touch of anti seize is ok and put some on the back of the wheel and on the studs.

Oh and be sure the shop has the correct torque specs in their computer system. At Discount Tire I had to show them my owners manual to prove that the torque was 109 instead of what their computer said (80).

 

[LandCruzrNY]

When I heard them with the impact wrench, and went out, they had snapped the fourth stud on the first wheel. He was using a Dewalt impact with a 4 inch long half-inch drive extension, and a mechanics choice 21 mm deep socket. No torx stix. He was laying into it with all of his strength.

I would think after you snapped the first one you couldn't possibly snap a second one.

I just did a knuckle job on it, and had all new studs. Everything from back to front was brand new Toyota OEM.

I'm sorry, yes, Snap ring. It was not there. Causing the axle to play back-and-forth about half an inch or so. Maybe more.

The fact that they reused nonreusable parts was just adding to the frustration. The fact that they didn't put grease in the outer bearing, that was even more frustrating. How they assembled it with the Outer bearing facing the wrong way, I just can't figure out.

Fortunately Monro owns several hundred shops under different names, and when I reached VP management, they were happy to do the right thing.

It should be back together on Friday.

 

[Broski]

When I heard them with the impact wrench, and went out, they had snapped the fourth stud on the first wheel. He was using a Dewalt impact with a 4 inch long half-inch drive extension, and a mechanics choice 21 mm deep socket. No torx stix. He was laying into it with all of his strength.

I would think after you snapped the first one you couldn't possibly snap a second one.

I just did a knuckle job on it, and had all new studs. Everything from back to front was brand new Toyota OEM.

I'm sorry, yes, Snap ring. It was not there. Causing the axle to play back-and-forth about half an inch or so. Maybe more.

The fact that they reused nonreusable parts was just adding to the frustration. The fact that they didn't put grease in the outer bearing, that was even more frustrating. How they assembled it with the Outer bearing facing the wrong way, I just can't figure out.

Fortunately Monro owns several hundred shops under different names, and when I reached VP management, they were happy to do the right thing.

It should be back together on Friday.

I’m not trying to be an ass but you have to take some responsibility on yourself.
If a shop snaps 4 out 6 lugs on one wheel then there not competent enough to take the hub apart and put it back together correctly.

There’s only one none reusable part the paper gasket. And if you’re careful you can reuse it.

There no way you can put the outer bearing in backwards and drive the car, either bearing for that matter.

If you just did a knuckle Service then the bearing would have had plenty of grease on it (unless they cleaned it) to just put it back in.
Is that the right way no but I have seen it done and done it myself.
Just put it on a clean piece of cardboard and cover it with a clean paper towel or rag to keep contaminates off it.

I’m not sure how you lay into with all your strength, using an impact it does all the work.

I’m glad there making you hole. I just hope that there shop is not doing the work.

 

[Squash]

Don't allow random people to play with your nuts!
Buy a torque wrench and keep it close.

 

[mudgudgeon]

FWIW, You can park an elephant on top of an impact driver/wrench, it ain't gonna change the torque capacity of the tool.
That's dictated by tool design, and air pressure, not whether someone leans into it or not.

Regardless, the tire shop ****ed up.

Your first mistake was letting them proceed when you weren't happy with responses at the desk.
2nd mistake was letting a bunch of gorillas continue to **** your s*** up after the first **** up. That's how you make a cluster ****.

Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction.

 

[Broski]

FWIW, You can park an elephant on top of an impact driver/wrench, it ain't gonna change the torque capacity of the tool.
That's dictated by tool design, and air pressure, not whether someone leans into it or not.

Regardless, the tire shop ****ed up.

Your first mistake was letting them proceed when you weren't happy with responses at the desk.
2nd mistake was letting a bunch of gorillas continue to **** your s*** up after the first **** up. That's how you make a cluster ****.

Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction.

^^^^
All this stuff is just common sense

 

[Kernal]

Storytime:

The national tire chain I use for tires and rotating/re-balancing once cross-threaded one rear wheel lugnut so the stud snapped when I went to change a tire.
The tire chain gave me a choice, take it to a mechanic they use or take it to the local Toyota dealer to replace the wheel stud, I choose the dealer.

Point is, they didn't attempt to do the repair themselves

Story #2:

I used to go to SEARS to buy and rotate/rebalance my tires, but they would always want to torque the lug nuts (96 FZJ80 with Alloy wheels) to 100+ ft lbs (the spec for steel wheels), not the spec for the Alloy wheels. When I told them that was the wrong setting they said that's what their computer system told them and they legally had to torque them to that number. Only after I showed them the specs in the Owner's manual for Alloy wheels did they agree to use the correct setting.

Just underscoring what's already been said, I've learned to never let a tire monkey touch anything on my vehicle beyond the tires (and some shouldn't even be allowed to do that).

@LandCruzrNY : did you have the Toyota dealer inspect your front wheels and brake rotors for damage/warping?