Front DC drive shaft vibration: (4 Viewers)

[ShottsUZJ100]

I should let this die and stay out of here but... I want to set something straight

My apologies to Christo and Ben at Slee offroad - I have received only the best service - better than the best service - My parts always arrive earlier than the tracking says -and the quality of fit and install instructions perfect - Because of Slee offroad my 80 is now everything I hoped it could be everything in this world should be this fun and rewarding - Thanks!

I should know better than to post in Johns other threads I was trying to suggest to John in a "quiet way" to look over his DC shaft carefully - nothing at all to do with Slee offroad quality or service - (only the DS folks)- lesson learned


John shame on you - when you use my post for ammo please include the complete text:

Quote:
Hmmm, do we have another bad CV shaft?

You might - my DC shaft showed up with one U-joint cup half way out and the clip off hanging in the grease - ( can you say quality control?) I put it back together but I don't fell 100% about it - I am calling to talk with Ben at Slee tomorrow if they are back from Texas.


::

Shame on me? I was discrete about the post and didn't reveal the source. SEVERAL people had asked me about getting a 2nd bad shaft because it didn't offer any improvement. You trust parts from Slee just as I do. I don't know what a friggin "cap" is and that it pops back on. Slee knows he's my source for this gear. Shame on nothing. Your truck "turned out". Mine has not dispite trying everything Slee has told me (so far).

 

[desertdude]

John - get your lexus to me in Sedona I will personally drive it up to Sleeoffroad - then let them do all the axle service - dial in your lift - then you can fly up test it and drive it back - then we can all end this saga in a happy way

Mine has not dispite trying everything Slee has told me (so far)

from Christo Hence the suggestion to bring it up here, unless you can find someone locally to do it.

 

[clownmidget]

DD - you are too generous

Let the rest of us know how much we need to chip in to kill this thread....

 

[-Spike-]

the caster plate rotates the axle on the rear bolt, which moves the axle rearward, the axle might be crowding the T-case. By that I mean the slope of the drive shaft would be slightly steeper and produce an anglarity difference across the CV joint.

Because you have his arms, which actually moves the axle away from the T-Case, you might actually be in a better spot.

This is most interesting. Shotts noticed that the slip joint on his front driveshaft was closed farther than mine. I dismissed it in my mind as incidental, although we did come to the same conclusion as to why- my Slee arms pushing the axle slightly forward, and his caster plates pushing it slightly back. I'm not knowledgeable enough to realize that situation might cause other issues.

I'm not sure how easy it would be for us to swap radius arms, although it does seem a likely step if the service and rear driveline adjustment don't fix the problem. Shotts' caster plates are welded on as well as bolted (I believe that's the recommended way to install them). Not impossible, but difficult.

Christo, is it possible that there is not enough room in the slip joint of the DC driveshaft to allow the front suspension to compress fully when using the caster plates? Could this situation have damaged the first (and possibly second) driveshaft? I didn't measure the difference, but I had the impression Shotts' was closed about 1" more than mine, but I wasn't paying close attention to it so that figure might not be that high.

Shotts: Yeah, we definitely had a blast on that ledge. You're right, I was able to run up it fairly easily, although there was one point of the wall, with the fire-blackened dirt in front of it (just to the left of me in the photo above) that I couldn't do because the wall was too high and the front tires couldn't get traction. That spot was measured at 44.5*, and the spot I did make it up was just under that. I was even more amazed earlier in the day when I was able to walk right up the middle of 'the Step' by the cabin. Shortening the front and rear frame rails is one of the best mods for these rigs!

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John - get your lexus to me in Sedona I will personally drive it up to Sleeoffroad - then let them do all the axle service - dial in your lift - then you can fly up test it and drive it back - then we can all end this saga in a happy way

Wow! How'd you get back?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

This is most interesting. Shotts noticed that the slip joint on his front driveshaft was closed farther than mine. I dismissed it in my mind as incidental, although we did come to the same conclusion as to why- my Slee arms pushing the axle slightly forward, and his caster plates pushing it slightly back. I'm not knowledgeable enough to realize that situation might cause other issues.

I'm not sure how easy it would be for us to swap radius arms, although it does seem a likely step if the service and rear driveline adjustment don't fix the problem. Shotts' caster plates are welded on as well as bolted (I believe that's the recommended way to install them). Not impossible, but difficult.

Christo, is it possible that there is not enough room in the slip joint of the DC driveshaft to allow the front suspension to compress fully when using the caster plates? Could this situation have damaged the first (and possibly second) driveshaft? I didn't measure the difference, but I had the impression Shotts' was closed about 1" more than mine, but I wasn't paying close attention to it so that figure might not be that high.

Shotts: Yeah, we definitely had a blast on that ledge. You're right, I was able to run up it fairly easily, although there was one point of the wall, with the fire-blackened dirt in front of it (just to the left of me in the photo above) that I couldn't do because the wall was too high and the front tires couldn't get traction. That spot was measured at 44.5*, and the spot I did make it up was just under that. I was even more amazed earlier in the day when I was able to walk right up the middle of 'the Step' by the cabin. Shortening the front and rear frame rails is one of the best mods for these rigs!

-Spike

I don't think the first shaft got damaged by me. It vibrated right out of the box and down the paved road. Good questions though....

And yes...that very tallest spot on the slickrock...it's just too tall for our trucks. It actually gets scary. You apply gas and the front slides sideways. I seen lines on Poisen Spider and Golden Spike that our rigs would kill for. You can make it there, but I can't. All my bolts would come loose.

 

[sleeoffroad]

John sent me a picture of the front part and there is plenty of slip and the driveshaft is not over compressed.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John sent me a picture of the front part and there is plenty of slip and the driveshaft is not over compressed.

Pic attached. By the way...this shaft came with loads of grease all over it. The head felt OK. It's spun grease though all over the undersides of the truck and it really smells when I'm driving. That's another reason I posted Dude's info about a cup half-off and in grease. I don't know what's right, worng or what a cup is (no jokes now ). I know at some point though the grease will burn off though I have no way to know if the grease keeps leaking out. That's why I mentioned this. (Besides others bringing it up to me)

 

[-Spike-]

John sent me a picture of the front part and there is plenty of slip and the driveshaft is not over compressed.

That's good to hear. Back to the caster correction plates then, it seems to me IIRC that Concrete has the same plates and the same vibration issue. Perhaps it's the different angle on the DC joint...? Something to look at after the PM is done and rear DS is fixed, if the vibrations persist.

Christo, you should just open accunts for people who want to buy parts only instead of kits, so they can call and have more parts shipped without having to run the CC every time.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Christo, you should just open accunts for people who want to buy parts only instead of kits, so they can call and have more parts shipped without having to run the CC every time.

-Spike

Can you imagine what he'd find if I shipped him my truck?

 

[landtank]

One thing I would do here is get some masking tape and stick it on the front arms just under the tie-rod and then take the truck for a ride. When you get back inspect the tape and if there is some marks on it then maybe the axle is rotating some and the toe-rod is hitting the arms.

It's a cheap 1 banana job and those arms look a little close maybe.

 

[-Spike-]

Back to the caster correction plates then, it seems to me IIRC that Concrete has the same plates and the same vibration issue. Perhaps it's the different angle on the DC joint...?

-Spike

The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. Moving the axle towards the t-case won't significantly change the DC joint angle, it would only affect the slip joint. If there's enough room in the slip joint, it shouldn't cause any problems, and even if the angle at the DC joint changed significantly, it shouldn't be a problem- that's what they're designed for. In my understanding, with a DC driveshaft the single joint should be a straight shot but the DC end could have as much as double the angle a single joint would handle. Somebody explain the error of my thinking, please.

-Spike

 

[clownmidget]

The problem that we dealing with is that there is only 1 company in the US the supplies that style cv head assembly. The only other option to get a Koyo part would be to buy the appropriate Toyota shaft, and mate it with the front of the 80 shaft. The problem with this is that it would be a $1000 shaft when said and done.

Christo, if I remember from doing the Tacoma rear driveshaft mod (as Kumar documented) both heads were identical. I think that's the case because I remember just picking the one that was in the best condition to use on the CV shaft. But you're right, that CV section is not something you just find on a parts shelf.

Still have to laugh though, as I got the used Tacoma shaft, had the CV section rebuilt, new Toyota u-joints, cut to proper length and re-tubed with thicker tubing, balanced, etc. and it came to the same amount as your "ready to bolt on" drive shaft. That doesn't even take into account the driving around to get the shaft at a yard, drop it off and pick it up from the shop.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Christo, if I remember from doing the Tacoma rear driveshaft mod (as Kumar documented) both heads were identical. I think that's the case because I remember just picking the one that was in the best condition to use on the CV shaft. But you're right, that CV section is not something you just find on a parts shelf.

Still have to laugh though, as I got the used Tacoma shaft, had the CV section rebuilt, new Toyota u-joints, cut to proper length and re-tubed with thicker tubing, balanced, etc. and it came to the same amount as your "ready to bolt on" drive shaft. That doesn't even take into account the driving around to get the shaft at a yard, drop it off and pick it up from the shop.

The key is that we can not rely on used parts availability, so we have to go with new. CDan can chime in what that shaft cost, but it aint cheap. However if John has doubt in our shafts, then that is always an option for him.

As a FYI, I checked with the shop and they use this machine to balance. http://www.helc.net/asp/products/product_details.asp?productid=24
The shaft is spinned up slowly to 3200 rmp from standstill and then all the way down to make sure there are no issues at slower speeds as well.

 

[Nay]

That's good to hear. Back to the caster correction plates then, it seems to me IIRC that Concrete has the same plates and the same vibration issue. Perhaps it's the different angle on the DC joint...? Something to look at after the PM is done and rear DS is fixed, if the vibrations persist.

Christo, you should just open accunts for people who want to buy parts only instead of kits, so they can call and have more parts shipped without having to run the CC every time.

-Spike

The operating angle on that shaft is relatively small, and the pinion angle is good. Changing the axle mounts with a caster plate should not have any effect on the double cardan joint, which is designed to run smoothly at up to about 22 degrees of driveshaft angle, and about 28 degrees total without the DC binding on its own housing (angle can increase offroad under full drop of the entire front end). This application is nowhere near those limits.

You don't see a bunch of balance weights on the front end of the shaft, which is a very good sign of initial driveshaft balance. I'd be surprised if it has anything to do with the driveshaft, and I don't see how the caster plates can possibly cause an issue with the slip yoke being in the proper range at static ride height.

Nay

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

However if John has doubt in our shafts, then that is always an option for him.

Has nothing to do with my faith. You sell a lot of these so their track record must be good.

I don't know what's normal. The 2nd shaft vibes too and you can see all the excess grease spray on the pic above. I don't know if that's normal or not but it sure smells and made a mess.

I don't think I'll do anything until I rebuild the front axle. Then, with the front shaft on we'll re-tune the rear arms again to shut up the rear shaft (like it was before the front one went in).

 

[-Spike-]

Don't neglect the rear axle. It needs love too.

-Spike

 

[sleeoffroad]

Has nothing to do with my faith. You sell a lot of these so their track record must be good.

Just putting it out there as an option

I don't know what's normal. The 2nd shaft vibes too and you can see all the excess grease spray on the pic above. I don't know if that's normal or not but it sure smells and made a mess.

The problem is that the assumption is that it is the shaft, and not something else that nowe receives power to it when you attach the shaft. As for the grease, it is all good. There will always be residue that gets thrown of when you grease the joints. One could also have wiped it off before installing it Just shows it was greased when it left here.

I don't think I'll do anything until I rebuild the front axle. Then, with the front shaft on we'll re-tune the rear arms again to shut up the rear shaft (like it was before the front one went in).

I think that is a wise choice. I also go with what Nay has said that I can not see that shaft not working with those angles, does not matter how we got to them, ie arms, lift height, caster plates etc etc.

 

[clownmidget]

The key is that we can not rely on used parts availability, so we have to go with new. CDan can chime in what that shaft cost, but it aint cheap. However if John has doubt in our shafts, then that is always an option for him.

Right on Christo. That's what I meant as a take home - it's way easier to end up at the same place by just picking up the phone and calling you. Sure there are other ways to skin this cat but my way took a lot of time and effort and I was lucky to have a dedicated off-road driveshaft shop nearby. The third way, as you note, going through a new Toyota shaft might only be $950 by the time your done

 

[landtank]

I only threw out the plate/angle idea based on an article I read. It would seem that John is quite certain the vibes came with the lift and it appears to me he's done everything one would expect to do to find the problem so it's got to be something off the wall or over looked.