Wish I could post them… but I can’t :/It would be nice to see a video of a test drive.
I think it’s pretty dumb how Toyota drags everything out.
Spy photos, hearsay, leaked information…
Release a photo in shadows , or a part of a vehicle…
Then release vehicle information
Then release vehicle for glorified evaluations by paid promoters
Then…. Wait some more
ThenWait some more
Then! Ya nope, wait …some more? Ya
Wait…
And eventually get a bit of test drive information.
How about show the release in Hawaii with Test drives all week, Stock the F#%\n vehicle at the dealers asap and Tada!
I’m sure they have reasons. Just seems a bit Silly.
From 100 to 250?
- Thread starter RND1
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Weird. He's saying some of the same things some of us have been saying.
Anyhow, now that we've established that the 250 chassis is effectively identical to the 300, we can move on to celebrate how Toyota engineered that chassis to be stronger, lighter, and better performing offroad than the 200, and how they specifically benchmarked the 80 series for its articulation and overall off-road performance.
That combined with its 27 mpg efficiency and payload-available range will make it a truly excellent touring platform.
How legendary 80 Series inspired the new Toyota LandCruiser 300
The Toyota LandCruiser chief engineer praised classic 80 Series as the best rough-road performer of the lot. That was until his team made the 300 Series...www.carexpert.com.au
Toyota benchmarked the 80-series for the new Land Cruiser 300
Toyota went all-out in launching the J300 Land Cruiser, digging deep into its history to inform development of the latest iteration. One of the many revealing tidbits to come out of the LC300’…japanesenostalgiccar.com
Toyota Used the '90s Land Cruiser to Benchmark the 2022 Model
When you're trying to build the best off-roader of all time, you've gotta take notes from those that came before you.www.thedrive.com
If the LC Lite and new GX are the “same” as the 300, what separates them from the LX 600? Surely the ~30k price difference is just lining Toyota’s pockets…
The LX is loaded with a ton of accessories, a cockpit of a airplane, a ton more HP and torque, aluminum body panels, carbon fiber armor and many more things. I sat in both for 10 minutes and could easily tell there was a $30K difference between the LX and GX/ 250.
Or how about quality materials, great sound isolation, better insulated cabin, and superior build quality? All of which are important to driving a car for 300-500k miles.
How about Toyota not throwing lackluster materials and build quality in their flagship Land Cruiser nameplate to make a price point?
Why didn’t Toyota give us the 300 with different trim levels so you can decide on how “luxury” you want it.
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The issue i think is design.
The design of the lc300 is too understated and "boring" to make a splash in the US market. It would sell more than 200 if it was offered as a more base 300, being cheaper but the 250 is way more eye catching.
They actually couldn't have done the same outlandish design on a 300 even if they wanted to, the 300 guys want something more sensible (doesn't mean it can't be a little nicer to look at though!)
They can however have fun with the Prado design and they sure did!
Also think of it from a marketing POV - we love these vehicles but we also think with our hearts most of the time.
Imagine if you had a job to improve the sales of a nameplate after reintroduction.
You would naturally look at the Prado/250 in this case since its main goal is to the affordable family friendly LC that gets people in a Land Cruiser and the one that looks more exciting (this generation).
I also believe this opens the door for a possibility of expanding the LC line down the line possibly at first with a smaller baby LC (Similar to the Bronco sport) and in future who knows....maybe a 400.
Honestly worst case scenario, even if this doesn't do crazy sales (and I doubt that) they would still sell more than a 200.
They just need to make sure the prices don't increase every year to the point where this ends up being having the same price issues the older LCs had.
Also we have to remember the decision to bring the LC back happened around the same time the 250 had been shown internally behind the scenes (based on what we read from forum rumors). It was getting lots of hype behind the scenes, and if they had to pick based on looks it makes sense why they chose to get the 250.
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Deleted - I am getting too worked up on this thread. Back to the 200 section for me. This whole LC Lite release was a big let down, and I am sad the direction Toyota is taking.
I will let you gents be the Guinea pigs on this new product, and will wait on the sidelines until Toyota brings back the true legend.
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This thread really got derailed again... For the OP original question. I don't know you would be happy trading in a 100 series for the 250, especially a low mileage really good condition unit. Maybe a ran down high mileage beater 100.
I would also consider the GX550 over the 250. IMO, without actually driving either the GX or 250 yet, just from initial in person impressions and pricing, your not going to get the same luxury feel on an entry level $55K-$65K vehicle in 2023 that is more than $10K less than your 100 series was 20 years ago!!, No way...
If you like the 200 series, look out west, you will find are in good condition and aren't a rust bucket and still in great condition. IMO, your getting a more similar vehicle to your 100. Flights are cheap and hauling services are reasonable.
I know interior isn't everything but it just feels like they lowered the bar too much on the 250/ GX. IMO they should have target a $65K-$95K range, just to separate it from the 4R more.
The end of the hard touch plastic era, yet luxury feelingL
Average feel soft touch, very vertical bronco/ Jeep feel Dash and very basic:
A little more in line of what the 100 was but just a bit too much and a lot more $$...
Might as well throw the 200 in there.
The cheaper fit and finish and quality feel went well outside the interior in the GX550 IMO.
I would also consider the GX550 over the 250. IMO, without actually driving either the GX or 250 yet, just from initial in person impressions and pricing, your not going to get the same luxury feel on an entry level $55K-$65K vehicle in 2023 that is more than $10K less than your 100 series was 20 years ago!!, No way...
If you like the 200 series, look out west, you will find are in good condition and aren't a rust bucket and still in great condition. IMO, your getting a more similar vehicle to your 100. Flights are cheap and hauling services are reasonable.
I know interior isn't everything but it just feels like they lowered the bar too much on the 250/ GX. IMO they should have target a $65K-$95K range, just to separate it from the 4R more.
The end of the hard touch plastic era, yet luxury feelingL
A little more in line of what the 100 was but just a bit too much and a lot more $$...
Might as well throw the 200 in there.
The cheaper fit and finish and quality feel went well outside the interior in the GX550 IMO.
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I tend to think that's the more the role of the 4runner to be the sporty fun model. But it's a fair point. The 250 body style will sell a lot better. The 300 is a bit conservative. Now that they're effectively the same size it probably doesn't matter too much either way to me.
I do think the 250 styling is a easier to match with aftermarket bumpers and armor. Hopefully the hard points under the plastics are all there and as good as the 4runner to make it super easy to install them. It also appears to have great sight lines and outward visibility. I think we can all agree out didn't fall into the trap of the FJ cruiser and the new tundra and Sequoia that are all horrendous to see out of.
I also agree that pricing is critical to success. It's not a bronco raptor and there's really no way it should be in that same price range. It really needs to be priced competitively with the comparable other Toyotas. Tacoma and 4runners that share the same powertrain especially.
Taking a step back, it's pretty remarkable to see the diversity of the North American Land Cruiser lineage going forward.
This is quite the comeback after Land Cruiser's cancellation a few years ago; never has the North American lineage covered so many use cases.
- Land Cruiser 250, in three trims
- GX 550
- LX 600, in five trims
This is quite the comeback after Land Cruiser's cancellation a few years ago; never has the North American lineage covered so many use cases.
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Not a LC 250, but the first drive reviews of the GX are starting to come in.
Motor trend has their initial review up as well.
Yes. Agreed. I know this will raise some objections for sure, but I think we could consider the Tacoma as part of the club as well. It's the closest thing to a LC truck we've had in the USA since the LC45. The off-road trims look like they'll share a very similar rolling chassis including suspension and powertrain as the LC250 and also very close to the LC300. In some sense the Tundra was very similar, but it's really just a common full size truck. The Tacoma having the 9.5" rear axle and 8.7(?) front with full LC width suspension seems to be more aligned with the LC philosophy to me - having significantly overbuilt parts on a smaller vehicle. The Tacoma with the same running gear as a Tundra fits that category for me. This is a big change from any previous generation. It's quite unusual to see the Tacoma and LC sharing running gear. I suspect the Tacoma will be the biggest winner in all of the re-designs.
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Tacoma limited will even have the same transfercase as the 250... Shame they will not offer that on the Pro models.
Indeed, this will be the first time that Tacoma has been built upon a chassis that is overbuilt for its small-medium size. And, yes, that's been a hallmark of Land Cruiser through the ages. Evidence the sturdiness of Tacoma turbo hybrid's 1700 lb payload.
It's a big step up for Tacoma which has always been marginally equipped for remote touring. I badly deformed a gen one's rear springs once running it in Baja with the same load I'd usually run in an 80 series with abundant payload freeboard. Given its newfound sturdiness, Tacoma's new generation is the first that actually interests me. It'd make a great camper platform.
Of course, it will drive some people nuts when the Tacoma bros figure all of this out and start touting it as North America's Land Cruiser truck. But, like it or not, all of these vehicles are far more similar than they've ever been, and that's not a bad thing.
I have a 100 series daily driver that is hurting me right now at 13 mpg.
Very interested in this j250 at 27 combined mpg if true.
But can anyone explain why an F150 with a 5.0 V8 can get 24 mpg (hwy) 17 city and a 2.7 hybrid 4 cyl only gets marginally better? How is ford doing it?
Very interested in this j250 at 27 combined mpg if true.
But can anyone explain why an F150 with a 5.0 V8 can get 24 mpg (hwy) 17 city and a 2.7 hybrid 4 cyl only gets marginally better? How is ford doing it?
The 4x4 F150 only gets 22 mpg highway with the 5.0, which is still exceptional, for a such a large vehicle with a N/A V8 and ~400 horsepower.
Per my previous posts - Ford/GM and even Chrysler continued to advance N/A V8 designs while Toyota has kept theirs static since basically 2007. That's a full 16 years of engine development that Toyota simply didn't bother to do - they bet on hybrids/4-bangers instead. A 2007 F150 with the failure-prone 3V 5.4 was only rated for 12/16 mpg (14 mpg combined) and (IIRC) 305 horsepower, which is on-par with a 2007 Land Cruiser. The current 5.0 Coyote is an excellent engine, sharing a similar DOHC architecture as a UR, and serves as what "could have been" for Toyota.
I know two types of people with an eco boost f150. Those who realistically get 15-18mpg combined and those that lie about getting 20+mpg.
5.0 will usually get better real-world fuel economy than the Ecoboost. I've had both for rentals and frankly dislike the Ecoboost but really like the 5.0. On the pre-aluminum trucks, I could get 20 mpg highway pretty easily with the 5.0. I camped next to another TrailManor owner, who had a 2.7 Ecoboost as his tow rig and claimed 17 mpg towing at 65 mph, which seemed far-fetched to me, but who knows.
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