Font Axle Rebuild - Final Step - Axle Snap Ring Space Issue (2 Viewers)

[erics]

In my experience the shaft should have a little play that allows it to slide in/out without any material tension on it either way - to install the c clip it is pulled outward and the clip goes on, remaining without any real tension (and ABSOLUTELY not impacting bearing preload). Seems to me somethings definitely wrong.

If you're going to invest to have a mechanic get into it (probably many hundreds of $) I wouldnt risk damaging it by driving it to the shop, even though in theory it shouldnt be an issue... I'd just spend the $100 bucks or whatever to have it towed.

 

[pb4ugo]

@csd1982, You need to ID the parts you are working with. erics is correct, the birfield should have some in & out play when the snap ring or washer is installed. The snap ring acts as stop so the birfield does not go into the diff/knuckle too far. Toyota used 2 different birfields, long & short. Long ones were used from 76 to 78, and 79 and later FJ40's used short ones along with mini trucks. Most of the aftermarket alloy birfs are short ones. When they changed birfields they changed the lockouts lengths too. You mentioned your birfs are aftermarket, so they are most likely short ones. In your 1st post on this thread, the pics shows a birf with a grease fitting, immediately behind the grease fitting in your pic is a washer, then the shaft splines and then the snap ring you installed. The washer does the same thing as the snap ring depending on the length of your lockouts. Did ya read the link I ref in post #13, if not here it is again below.

Lock out 101 (FAQ)

Looking at your 1st pic, it seems you should remove the snap ring if it's under some pressure. It should not be tight against the internal parts of the lockout. There should be a little in and out play. My guess is, you should just run the washer with the grease fitting holding it in place. No snap ring. Only you can confirm the parts you are running.

 

[erics]

I think the discussion of long vs short lockout bodies and birfs is probably not relevant here... the difference in length is somewhere in the range of 3/8-1/2" or more right? So as such there's no way a short birf with a long lockout body would come anywhere near allowing installation of the snap ring, even under significant tension. A long birf with a short lockout body would protrude excessively.

Instead I would bet on something installed incorrectly from spindle out, causing the hub to ride roughly 1/16-1/8th range too far outboard, allowing a snap ring to be force-installed under extreme tension. Something like extra dust shield/eliminator in there, or bearing race(s) not seated far enough, etc.

It needs to come apart to check...

 

[csd1982]

So maybe you all won’t believe, think I’m a dumbass or both.

Long story short a took it all apart and reassembled a few times. It seems to be the wax paper gasket that goes between the lockout and hub. This is a thicker paper wax gasket. Without the gasket in place I can put the lockout on and easily put in the snap ring. No added preload to the bearing, the snap ring spins in the groove.

With the gasket and all bolts torqued down (don’t know the specs but tight) the snap ring won’t seat all the way. I can knock the snap ring in the groove with a punch as I did before but the pre-load then goes off my fish scale reading.

Maybe I’ll try a different gasket or not worry about it as the gasket will compress more over time?

 

[csd1982]

it’s a blue gasket I’m using.

 

[rossl]

Any resolution to this? I'm re-assembling my front axle with mixed parts and running into a similar problem.

 

[csd1982]

Been cold and I was busy with work. About to look at it this weekend and post after Xmas on my progress.

 

[Goebeler]

Had similar problems recently. I used a long bolt and a small wrench on the end, held in place with a flat washer. Slight pressure, gasket maker vs paper gasket and all solved,

Suggest trailering the cruiser vs driving without snap rings installed.

 

[csd1982]

Had similar problems recently. I used a long bolt and a small wrench on the end, held in place with a flat washer. Slight pressure, gasket maker vs paper gasket and all solved,

Suggest trailering the cruiser vs driving without snap rings installed.

I did the same thing. I just used casket maker over the paper gasket and its all good now.

 

[Ackcruisers]

@pb4ugo I’ve encountered a similar issue with my 1976 40. According to my research, we determined I have the long birfield link below:

1976 Non USA Birfield/Hub/Knuckle/Locking Hub identification help! - measurements & images

Can someone confirm I need the long body locking hubs for this birf? I was told I have the 9/75- 1/79 birfield that fit with the hard to find Asco/Aisin long body locking hubs. The first image below is the birfield out of my truck (1976, Non USA FJ40 with front drum brakes). Notice the...

forum.ih8mud.com

however the long body hub (ASCO) purchased by Cityracer would not allow me to pull axel outboard far enough to install C clip. You can see my post here.

Question: How much inboard and outboard movement is required for the birf/axel to function?

 

[peesalot]

Outborad the birf stops on the bushing in hub, inboard as long as it cant go in far enough for the birf ears to hit the interior of bell your good.

 

[Ackcruisers]

Ok, what is the purpose of the movement of the birfield in/out by 1/4 inch to 1/2”? I’ve not taken apart the differential to see. With the end of birfield pulled outbound, and the C clip installed snug up against the inside of the locking hub, therefore restricting movement inbound or outbound; will this interfere with the proper function of the locking hubs?

 

[Chungas Revenge]

Rebuilding Aisin locking hub Locking hub rebuild

Here we go.... This is an IFS locking hub off my 89 4Runner. 86-95 will be the same. Solid axle 79-85 and many Cruiser hubs are the exact same design, only different sizes, but you probably could not tell from the pictures other than the different spline count. Notes: I have no idea what these...

forum.ih8mud.com

Very good thread from the “way back machine”.

 

[pb4ugo]

The snap ring acts as a stop, restricting the birf going into the knuckle too far. It keeps the birfs pivot point aligned with the knuckles trunion bearings. It also keeps the inner axle splines properly positioned in the diffs side gears. If the birf is in the knuckle too far it can also cause the inner axle seal to fail prematurely. There should be slight in and out movement, maybe a 1/16" or less and no binding on the snap ring. Skimming thru this thread it appears other folks have had similar problems with the aftermarket lockouts and found it helpfull to use a thinner gasket or no gasket. All the parts you're using are stk except the long body lockout.

 

[Ackcruisers]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. This is very helpful as I go for round two with the ASCO aftermarket hubs.

For those who want to see what it’s like to struggle with this, check out this video from Project Wrong Way.

Fast forward to 21:54



Also, thanks @Chungas Revenge for the excellent way back machine post of the locking hub.

 

[peesalot]

That play is necessary for the birf to cycle thru its range of motion as it steers.

 

[jembourbe]

Ok, what is the purpose of the movement of the birfield in/out by 1/4 inch to 1/2”?

Like the slip yoke in a driveshaft, but for steering.

 

[peesalot]

Sort of it has to do with the inner balls traveling on the inner star and that change in measurement as it travels not exactly matching the balls travel on the outer bell the bell moves in & out as it travels.

 

[jembourbe]

When the inner and outer axle shafts articulate, their combined length is different relative to their housing environment than when the axle shaft segments are in straight line. The birfield moves in and out a little (relative to its environment) to accommodate the change. Like a slip yoke.

 

[Ackcruisers]

This is awesome information...thanks @jembourbe and @peesalot and @pb4ugo. My understanding of the engineering and mechanics of how this system works has been elevated. Now I have more to process to round out my knowledge base.