Fj60 Shaking tons after 30 mph

[Seth S]

@Seth S , please explain to me how it changes the dynamics of the suspension. spacers on the front will change steering geometry which could start the death wobble.
@jsan84fj60 , maybe i missed it, but is the wobble in your steering wheel?

If by death wobble we are referring to the oscillation that builds up in a vehicle and causes it to rock? More and more violently unless speed is reduced….then in this case wheel spacers have been added to all four corners of the truck effectively increasing the track width of each axle. The wheels now sit further out on each axle and this changes the moment that each wheel can apply back into the axle. On the front axle pushing the wheels further out could increase bump steer and affect how well the truck steers.

The death wobbles I’ve experienced were more due to worn out shocks or suspect springs.

My first thought on the OP post was a balance issue due to an non centered wheel spacers or an out of round condition. But a wheel vibration and a death wobble are two different things.

 

[cps432]

If by death wobble we are referring to the oscillation that builds up in a vehicle and causes it to rock? More and more violently unless speed is reduced….then in this case wheel spacers have been added to all four corners of the truck effectively increasing the track width of each axle. The wheels now sit further out on each axle and this changes the moment that each wheel can apply back into the axle. On the front axle pushing the wheels further out could increase bump steer and affect how well the truck steers.

The death wobbles I’ve experienced were more due to worn out shocks or suspect springs.

My first thought on the OP post was a balance issue due to an non centered wheel spacers or an out of round condition. But a wheel vibration and a death wobble are two different things.

Lug nuts failing to torque properly and center the wheel would cause that.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Get a grinder and just cut the caps off those lug nuts you have. Don’t order lug nuts off the internet
I could probably guarantee the local tire store has a 5 gal pail full of old style lug nuts they would
let you dig through as an option too. I only have a 1 gal pail of old lug nuts, cause I’m just a
one man shop.
second, I’d take a serious look at that exhaust. Tires should never come close to mufflers or piping.
im having trouble picturing this, for a truck driven 100 miles a year.

 

[Seth S]

Lug nuts failing to torque properly and center the wheel would cause that.

It would cause a serious vibration for sure and if the wheel were tight but not centered it wouldn’t have the tell tale clatter that comes with a loose wheel.

 

[Gretsch]

Tires should never come close to mufflers or piping.
im having trouble picturing this, for a truck driven 100 miles a year.

After adding 33's to my truck, the edge of the rear tire would hit the stock tail pipe when turning right.

Just caused a low rumble during the turn. My exhaust was cooked so I got all new exhaust on the truck and the shop was able to route the pipe far away from the tire. No more rub. I am curious what setup would cause a shop not to be able to re-route the pipe away from the tire. If its close enough to be fixed by a 1.25 inch spacer then the pipe wouldn't need to be moved very much. Not sure how two shops couldn't figure out how to do this. Maybe OP could share photos of the setup. I can't picture it.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Block of wood, pry bar. New muffler shop. Lot of trouble for a non problem.

 

[cps432]

It would cause a serious vibration for sure and if the wheel were tight but not centered it wouldn’t have the tell tale clatter that comes with a loose wheel.

When I was 18 and the wheel fell off my 66 ford f100 it was a rumble with no clattering for a week. The lug nuts bore THROUGH the hub!! After reading some posts on mud about worn lugs and nuts I have come to the conclusion that worn threads on both the lug nuts and lugs themselves were probably responsible for the non-concentric mounting. Obviously they were tight enough because they wallowed through 1.5” of cast iron, but some of the lugs had probably stretched causing uneven torque.

 

[jsan84fj60]

After adding 33's to my truck, the edge of the rear tire would hit the stock tail pipe when turning right.

View attachment 2802959View attachment 2802960

Just caused a low rumble during the turn. My exhaust was cooked so I got all new exhaust on the truck and the shop was able to route the pipe far away from the tire. No more rub. I am curious what setup would cause a shop not to be able to re-route the pipe away from the tire. If its close enough to be fixed by a 1.25 inch spacer then the pipe wouldn't need to be moved very much. Not sure how two shops couldn't figure out how to do this. Maybe OP could share photos of the setup. I can't picture it.

Yeah. That is exactly what mine was doing!! Exactly.
Just touching it when I turned right.
The spacer did fix that issue.
I don't have pictures of the muffler but I did take the cruiser to 2 places and one said they did not reroute mufflers the second gave me some explanation about the catalyst and some law, or something. I don't remember. It was years ago. Like I say, I don't drive the car much.
But it is the original muffler. Nothing fancy. I am not concern about the muffler.
If I need to reroute it, I will find a place (I am sure that can do it).
Anyways.
I think it is "yer nutz". To quote CPS432. Lol
Thanks all for the info.
J

 

[jsan84fj60]

Get a grinder and just cut the caps off those lug nuts you have. Don’t order lug nuts off the internet
I could probably guarantee the local tire store has a 5 gal pail full of old style lug nuts they would
let you dig through as an option too. I only have a 1 gal pail of old lug nuts, cause I’m just a
one man shop.
second, I’d take a serious look at that exhaust. Tires should never come close to mufflers or piping.
im having trouble picturing this, for a truck driven 100 miles a year.

Oh man. Thanks for the info.
The angle grinder idea sounds fun.
As much as I would love to do that, I want to make sure the wheels have the proper torque and those nuts are so old and broken I don't trust them. So, I am going with new ones to make sure they are save.
The exhaust is fine. Original and secured.
It is after I added the 33" tires the rubbing as I turn right started. That was several years ago.
But the pictures shown here of the muffler rubbing on the 33" tires are exactly the same as mine.
Thanks

 

[jsan84fj60]

If by death wobble we are referring to the oscillation that builds up in a vehicle and causes it to rock? More and more violently unless speed is reduced….then in this case wheel spacers have been added to all four corners of the truck effectively increasing the track width of each axle. The wheels now sit further out on each axle and this changes the moment that each wheel can apply back into the axle. On the front axle pushing the wheels further out could increase bump steer and affect how well the truck steers.

The death wobbles I’ve experienced were more due to worn out shocks or suspect springs.

My first thought on the OP post was a balance issue due to an non centered wheel spacers or an out of round condition. But a wheel vibration and a death wobble are two different things.

I don't know the technical term. Maybe I used the wrong term. But the steering wheel was shaking like crazy.
Whatever that is called.
Not sure if it is a wobble or not, but the cruiser did vibrate and felt like I was going to flip over.
I hope that describes it better.
Thanks.

 

[jsan84fj60]

When I was 18 and the wheel fell off my 66 ford f100 it was a rumble with no clattering for a week. The lug nuts bore THROUGH the hub!! After reading some posts on mud about worn lugs and nuts I have come to the conclusion that worn threads on both the lug nuts and lugs themselves were probably responsible for the non-concentric mounting. Obviously they were tight enough because they wallowed through 1.5” of cast iron, but some of the lugs had probably stretched causing uneven torque.

Wow. Crazy story.

 

[jsan84fj60]

It would cause a serious vibration for sure and if the wheel were tight but not centered it wouldn’t have the tell tale clatter that comes with a loose wheel.

Yeah. The vibration was one the steering wheel. Shook it so hard I felt like it was going to rip hand off. Lol. Of course I felt like the front tires were shaking too.
As I slowed down got worse for a sec and them better to almost going away when I was going steady at around 20 mph.

 

[cps432]

YER NUTZ!!

 

[Seth S]

I don't know the technical term. Maybe I used the wrong term. But the steering wheel was shaking like crazy.
Whatever that is called.
Not sure if it is a wobble or not, but the cruiser did vibrate and felt like I was going to flip over.
I hope that describes it better.
Thanks.

Yeah that’s 100% a wheel balance issue whether due to out of round of balance off. . Death wobble is a different situation.

 

[jsan84fj60]

Yeah that’s 100% a wheel balance issue whether due to out of round of balance off. . Death wobble is a different situation.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[Lead Head]

steering geometry changes do not change suspension dynamics(how the suspension works)
suspension alteration changes steering geometry

The steering and suspension systems are intrinsically tied together. One inherently influences the other. Changing the steering geometry (for example, changing your drag-link angle, using after-market pitman arms, wheel spacers, etc...) will have a direct effect on how your suspension system responds to bumps and changes in the road. For example, the infamous "Jeep Death Wobble" is caused by the suspension and steering geometry interacting in a way that causes a self-amplifying oscillation of both systems.

 

[MoaByte]

Finally, here is a picture of the leak.
View attachment 2802491

Leak? That's not a problem yet.
I had to modify the rear hanger on my tail pipe and use spacers. I used new nutz though. Good luck.

 

[cps432]

Leak? That's not a problem yet.
I had to modify the rear hanger on my tail pipe and use spacers. I used new nutz though. Good luck.

We could all use new nutz I think. Mine have been busted many times over the years and they just don’t seem to hold on as tight as they used to.

 

[Seth S]

We could all use new nutz I think. Mine have been busted many times over the years and they just don’t seem to hold on as tight as they used to.

You probably over torqued them i e too many times

 

[g-man]

My aluminum wheels are starting to wear at the stud holes. My tire shop caught it and gave me new lug nuts that wedge down into the holes more to hold things tight. New wheels are on my list.

I'd say the OP has found is issue to be the nuts bottoming out on the stud before tightening up on the wheel.

Honestly ...I know you didn't want feed back on this but you should really get rid of the spacers and fix or move the exhaust.

Agreed, that oil leak behind the front wheel doesn't look terrible. The felt gasket back there will seep a little oil that has separated from the grease in the knuckle. But when the gear oil is dripping down onto the wheel and the tires, it will affect the brakes and turn the gear oil in the knuckle into birf soup...a combo of grease mixed with gear oil. Then its time to tear into it.