fj40 disc vs drum brake spindle.

[lcwizard]

A member recently inquired on this topic. Assuming the info would be easily found on a Google search, I ran a search for images of drum vs disc brake spindle. Nothing really came up right away so I'm posting a side by side photo of the two for those who have never compared. I've always recommended the factory disc swap to early drum brake trucks primarily because of the strength difference of the two
spindles. Hopefully this post will spider out to the google search engine quickly and one, answer that
question to anyone looking for that, and two, bring non members to the forum who might be asking the same question

drum brake on the left, disc spindle on the right

 

[micruz60]

Please,
Just to clarify, is this dealing with early front axles only, not a reference to rear axle-drum-to-disc swap?
Thanks

 

[abosely]

Can a spindle with the 'patina' on the disc brake spindle, pictured be cleaned up and be used? I ask because I'll be needing two more spindles for my FF conversion. So if I find a couple that aren't pristine and they look like the one pictured and but can be cleaned up that wold be good to know.
But don't want to use something that isn't as good as a new piece, I mean after cleaning up.

Allen

 

[diogenese]

The one in the picture is perfectly useable, surface rust like that will be fine. You can clean it up with a scotchbrite pad or a wire brush.

 

[lostmarbles]

A member recently inquired on this topic. Assuming the info would be easily found on a Google search, I ran a search for images of drum vs disc brake spindle. Nothing really came up right away so I'm posting a side by side photo of the two for those who have never compared. I've always recommended the factory disc swap to early drum brake trucks primarily because of the strength difference of the two
spindles. Hopefully this post will spider out to the google search engine quickly and one, answer that
question to anyone looking for that, and two, bring non members to the forum who might be asking the same question

drum brake on the left, disc spindle on the rightView attachment 1192449

Unfortunately the title of your thread here (and the message it conveys) is incorrect lcwizard..

Here's my LH-front spindle on my DRUMS-ALL-AROUND BJ40:

Note how it corresponds with your DISC spindle.

The difference you are discussing must be related to something else entirely (and can't be used to support any "drum versus disc" argument).



EDit: OK.. I see you do refer to "early" ... But still I feel I need to say what I've said because year for year, the drum spindle is just as strong as (in fact exactly the same as) the disc spindle.

 

[abosely]

My 74' had the short spindles like the one in lcwizard's pic. Will be converting the rear to FF with Dave's rear FF bracket and need to source two more spindles & hubs for the rear. Just picked up an FJ60 so will use the them from it.

Will use the FJ60 front housing instead of the 40 housing because only need one of Dave's front spacers for the short side with the 60 housing. Though will need to cut the long side knuckle ball to turn it.

Allen

 

[lcwizard]

I guess I should say USA and Canada perhaps. I know around other places in the world The 40 continued using front drum brakes through the end of production. In the USA, Canada and perhaps some other countries the front was upgraded to disc brakes in 1976. With that upgrade the spindles were upgraded to larger, stronger pieces and the wheel hub offset changed so the front track widened by about 1 1/2". In the USA there are many companies offering quick fix disc conversions for the pre '76 40 and 55 series that retains the smaller front spindle from the drum brake front axle.
This is what I was referring to as far as using the stock Toyota components vs aftermarket when doing a disc swap to a drum front end.
The bearing journal OD dimensions on the early spindle are very similar to a DANA 44 while the
later spindle journal is similar to the DANA 60. In the US the large bearing journal diameter is about 50mm where the drum is about 41mm and the spindle length from the inner bearing shoulder is 110mm vs 85mm for the drum spindle.

@micruz60 you are correct, this only refers to the front end. The US 40's were all semi float so there are no spindles and the full float rear spindles were non removable

 

[lostmarbles]

... and the full float rear spindles were non removable

When I first found out that Toyota had made my rear spindles an integral part of my rear diff casing I couldn't believe it. And it still seems silly to me because spindles are components that often suffer wear from "wheel-bearing issues" and I'd have thought an easy-means-of-replacement (as I have on the front) would have been the only sensible design decision.

 

[BC40]

I guess I should say USA and Canada perhaps. I know around other places in the world The 40 continued using front drum brakes through the end of production. In the USA, Canada and perhaps some other countries the front was upgraded to disc brakes in 1976.

@micruz60 you are correct, this only refers to the front end. The US 40's were all semi float so there are no spindles and the full float rear spindles were non removable

Good info.

FYI another 40 series exception in the canadian market was the FJ45. It had the larger spindles/hubs/bearings in the late 70s with the bigger drum brakes at all 4 corners.

 

[lcwizard]

That's why I built my rear like this

 

[65swb45]

Can a spindle with the 'patina' on the disc brake spindle, pictured be cleaned up and be used? I ask because I'll be needing two more spindles for my FF conversion. So if I find a couple that aren't pristine and they look like the one pictured and but can be cleaned up that wold be good to know.
But don't want to use something that isn't as good as a new piece, I mean after cleaning up.

Allen

In my book form follows function. Since the primary function of the spindle is to support the bearing inner races [which are not supposed to rotate] it shouldn't matter if the spindle race surfaces are pitted as long as you can keep the bearings properly preloaded against the outer races. I generally pass over recommending spindle replacement to customers unless I see evidence of fatigue in the radius where the snout of the spindle meets the flange. This is much more common on drum brake spindles than disc [on the order of 30 to 1].

Best

Mark

 

[abosely]

Tom, I didn't know that FJ FF rear spindles weren't replaceable. I haven't seen a stripped rear housing in person since they are pretty uncommon in the States.

Now I'm even happier to be using Dave's rear FF brackets so my spindles will be bolt on replaceable if needed.

Allen

 

[MoCoNative]

All the FF rear assemblies are non replaceable. Our 80 series has some questionable wear on the rear spindles from 130,000 miles of no service. As Tom points out, piss poor design idea. The front spindles don't catastrophically fall off. Why couldn't a bolt on spindle be used in the rear. Only thing I could see is maybe it was to increase the weight bearing properties of the rear axles, but that still shouldn't matter that much.

 

[JungleBiker]

Unfortunately the title of your thread here (and the message it conveys) is incorrect lcwizard..

Here's my LH-front spindle on my DRUMS-ALL-AROUND BJ40:
View attachment 1192639

Note how it corresponds with your DISC spindle.

The difference you are discussing must be related to something else entirely (and can't be used to support any "drum versus disc" argument).



EDit: OK.. I see you do refer to "early" ... But still I feel I need to say what I've said because year for year, the drum spindle is just as strong as (in fact exactly the same as) the disc spindle.

This is very interesting. My '79 FJ45 has big spindles like lostmarble's truck. Are they actually identical to the disc brake items? If so, that's good news, as I was already planning to move my front spindles and hubs to the rear once I come up with a flange to weld on to the rear. I also was toying with the idea of mounting my original front brake backing plate with its double leading shoe brakes on the rear axle while putting Hilux discs on the front. I even considered welding on disc brake compatible flanges so that at some point in the future I could do a disc brake conversion on the rear.

Tom, I didn't know that FJ FF rear spindles weren't replaceable. I haven't seen a stripped rear housing in person since they are pretty uncommon in the States.

Now I'm even happier to be using Dave's rear FF brackets so my spindles will be bolt on replaceable if needed.

Allen

Am I to understand that "dave" offers pre-made flanges that can be welded on? I am still somewhat new here--who is "dave"? How can I find him? EDIT: I think I have figured out that "lcwizard" is Dave.

 

[abosely]

This is very interesting. My '79 FJ45 has big spindles like lostmarble's truck. Are they actually identical to the disc brake items? If so, that's good news, as I was already planning to move my front spindles and hubs to the rear once I come up with a flange to weld on to the rear. I also was toying with the idea of mounting my original front brake backing plate with its double leading shoe brakes on the rear axle while putting Hilux discs on the front. I even considered welding on disc brake compatible flanges so that at some point in the future I could do a disc brake conversion on the rear.




Am I to understand that "dave" offers pre-made flanges that can be welded on? I am still somewhat new here--who is "dave"? How can I find him? EDIT: I think I have figured out that "lcwizard" is Dave.

Yes, "lcwizard" is Dave Gore and owner of 4PlusProducts.com. He has a number of great LC products. Unfortunately he sold out of the FF/Disc flange bracket and at least currently not planning on making more.

Allen

 

[JungleBiker]

Yes, "lcwizard" is Dave Gore and owner of 4PlusProducts.com. He has a number of great LC products. Unfortunately he sold out of the FF/Disc flange bracket and at least currently not planning on making more.

Allen

Crumb. Does anybody else offer them or am I going to have to figure out how to make my own?

 

[abosely]

Yes Ruff Stuff, Axle Flange, Rear, Toyota, Full Float

Im starting a thread now I'm the FJ40 forum about using the RS FF/Disc flange on stock machined ends of the FJ40 & FJ60 rear housings from stock FJ40 width through 62" or more WMS to WMS widths.

I'm only part way through building my rear axle with WMS to WMS of 59-½" .

Posting pics & measurements of the factory machined ends.

Should have it up after bit.

Allen

 

[JungleBiker]

Sweet! I may go this route, though there is also a chance that I may end up with a complete 75 series rear axle, so we shall see what happens.

 

[abosely]

Sweet! I may go this route, though there is also a chance that I may end up with a complete 75 series rear axle, so we shall see what happens.

Is the 75 Series FF & disc? The 7x series are pretty rare USA.

I got some pics posted up now in
FJ40/60 factory machined surfaces to mount & align FF/Disc Flanges
thread.

One of the reasons I like using front spindles on the rear FF/Disc, is that the spindles on the OEM axles are welded in. So if one ever gets buggered up, cross threaded or damaged it's a production to replace it. But with front spindles just a matter of unbolt one and bolt on new one. Well, I guess a little bit of machining to open up the spindle for the Marlin Eco Seal, but that isn't too problematic tho.

Allen

 

[JungleBiker]

The HZJ75's we see here are ALL FF, but with drum rear brakes and disc front. While I like the idea of disc rear brakes, I have lots of drum brake parts sitting here that I already own. I was just going to keep drums all around until I discovered a small treasure trove of free mini-truck/Hilux parts stashed away in a corner of the shop I work in, free to me, enough parts to do a disc brake conversion on the front. Similarly, the main reason why I am looking into an FF conversion on the rear is because I discovered that I already owned a Detroit TruTrac diff lock that I have had for years, (I saved it from being unceremoniously thrown away during a big workshop cleanout years ago) but never knew what it was for. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the TruTrac won't work with c-clip axles, so converting to FF seemed the way to go if I actually want to use it.

In addition to my FJ45, I also have old Land Rovers, and one of the things I like about the old LR design is that it has full floating axles and removable/replaceable spindles all around. When I first started thinking about an FF conversion on m,y FJ45, it was natural for me to think about mimicking the Land Rover; I had no idea until a few days ago that other people had already done exactly that.

I also have an idea to mount my spare tire on a spare spindle/hub, just in case I ever have one fail out in the middle of nowhere.

I'd love to have identical spindles and hubs at all four corners, with a spare one to mount the spare on, but if I can get this 75 axle, I'll likely be getting it really cheap, and that could certainly make a difference in which direction I go.