FJ 62 SOA begins!

[spressomon]

I don't have my receipts here at work. I spent so much money on my 40 I have pproblems remembering how much I spent where. I know it wasen't cheap, nothing was.

...Better off NOT knowing, really. That's why we call them 'hobbies'...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Photo for Keith on how to set pinion angle. How I do it is a hair sketchy but it works and I am cautious about it. Fear is that handle will come flying out. But works well, then you don't over-grind on inside of passenger side perch. I use the handle of a cheapo pry bar that I have that mimics the height of the passenger side diff. I am careful to make sure it doesn't go anywhere which could be a safetly issue if it flew out. But I have even left it like this overnight and it has been fine.

Then I use a floor jack to lift up the pinion to desired angle. If too far, I wack with a hammer to brig back down. But thing is the axle is loose on a jack stand with weight of front vehicle on it. Obviously e brake, truck in gear, chocks on rear to make sure truck doesn't go anywhere.

 

[chicago]

Thanks for the pic Andre!
Did you de arch your springs? mine are arched, quite a bit more than yours!

Keith

 

[chicago]

GAME ON BABY!!!!!!
I GOT IT!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!

I gave it another go on setting the perches and GOT IT! Dieselcruiserhead gave me a couple of pointers, and I got some measurements off another FJ 62 around the corner from a friends house! I got the perch spacing, dead on with equal distances on each side.
I hacked up one of my spring perches last week trying to get it to fit on the pass side, and screwed it up HORRIBLY!!!! It, however, was not a total loss, cuz I was able to use it (since it was close enough) to get the rig up to ride height and then set the angle of the diff.
I started initially at 11 deg at the diff flange and 0 deg at the steer holes.
I ended up with 13 deg at the diff flange and 2 deg at the steer holes! I marked up the axel for when I set the perches and now Im ready to go with the set up and C and T!!!!
A VICTORIOUS DAY INDEED!

Here's some pics! lemme know if you see anything wrong with the set up as it is, cuz tomorrow, that is what the settings will be!

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[chicago]

A few more!

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Again I was mentioning back channel. Again depends on what you are using it for / size of tires etc. For a big rig / off roader, good arches springs are awesome but I always find myself lowering and lowering basically as much as possible for my DDers on 35s, even most guys with 37's on 60s it seems? You'll find that for a DDer and 35s you probably want springs closer to mine at least height wise. That pack did not stay that way, same/similar height but in the end I added two sets of add a leaves but with that many OEM springs.. Helped a lot with sway and weight carrying. But I wanted low..

My recommendation is put weight of the truck on the actual axle before welding up perches. If you can't, aim pinion a few inches shorter than t case flange imagining that you will lower the truck. You will probably find actual pinion angle is a lot lower than you figure, my guess is probably 10-12 degrees max. I did 14 with my first SOA on the 55 with the short NV4500 and once lowered it was way too much, even blew a u joint because the pinion angle was severe enough. Hope it helps Chicago!

best, andre

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Andre nailed a big issue... put the truck at its "assumed" ride height (meaning resting on the axle housing) so you can set the pinion angle from there. The ride height angle is where you want the least amout of vibration as this is where the driveline will spend most of its life. The angle can/will change 2+ degrees (likely more) when you set it at ride height.

Also, you might try and include a little bit of "sag" into the factor. When setting up a SOA axle I always try to accomodate for some of the spring fatigue and sag that will likely occur shortly after the SOA. Some rigs settle as much as 2" in a short period of time, dependent on the springs, condition, weight, etc.

The last thing you want to do is to set the angle now, and then have it be even slightly off in just a few months... All aspects to consider.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Great work Keith!!! Looks like it was a good call to stay home Saturday and work on your rig instead of catching a ride with one of the gang.

We had a great time sorry you couldn't make it. You missed the biggest turn out of Dan's yet, five countem five altogether.

I played with my spring packs for two weekends before I was satisfied. In the first couple of weeks just sitting everything settled a bit. Now after a few trips which flexed things out the rig has settled a bit more. I'll probably add a leaf back in the front packs. They are pretty flat.

 

[Loppy]

Another vote for popping your pinyon angle down a couple of degrees. I'm new to cruisers, but have done four spring over's in my day and nothing can surprise me anymore.

If you're just setting up those springs and have that pinyon pointing straight at the Tcase like that, you will regret it later. As Cruiseroutfit said above, ALL springs will sag and settle over time, specially in the first 500 miles (or 2-3 trail rides). You will find yourself with a "negative pinyon angle" (meaning pointing OVER the driveshaft, or beyond the angle of the top joint on the Tcase) and this is a very bad thing. The joint wont last long.

The U joints on a shaft must work together. And keeping them at the same relative operating angle is the best way to optimise their strength and life. This is most important on the rear shaft, as it does most the work and all the high speed work (keeping them the same angle also avoids vibration).

Also, for what it's worth, I dont care for CV shafts. I know others above are pushing you that direction. And, if this is going to be your DD and see mostly road work, that's fine. Less vibration, specially if you plan to keep that pinyon angle. They make up for differing angles on the axle and case. And if you have to have a CV, talk to Jesse at High Angle like you are. He makes the best. Otherwise, using OEM CV's in my very long road of playing with this stuff only served to frustrate the hell out of me. They came loose, broke or otherwise pissed me off to no end. I prefer a good single 1350 or even better, CTM joint on each end of the shaft... and use high angle pinyons when possible. I've found them to be much more durable, specially for rock crawln.

Cheers!

Oh, I'll be starting my 60 SOA soon. Thanks for the pics and good post.

 

[chicago]

Another vote for popping your pinyon angle down a couple of degrees. I'm new to cruisers, but have done four spring over's in my day and nothing can surprise me anymore.

If you're just setting up those springs and have that pinyon pointing straight at the Tcase like that, you will regret it later. As Cruiseroutfit said above, ALL springs will sag and settle over time, specially in the first 500 miles (or 2-3 trail rides). You will find yourself with a "negative pinyon angle" (meaning pointing OVER the driveshaft, or beyond the angle of the top joint on the Tcase) and this is a very bad thing. The joint wont last long.

The U joints on a shaft must work together. And keeping them at the same relative operating angle is the best way to optimise their strength and life. This is most important on the rear shaft, as it does most the work and all the high speed work (keeping them the same angle also avoids vibration).

Also, for what it's worth, I dont care for CV shafts. I know others above are pushing you that direction. And, if this is going to be your DD and see mostly road work, that's fine. Less vibration, specially if you plan to keep that pinyon angle. They make up for differing angles on the axle and case. And if you have to have a CV, talk to Jesse at High Angle like you are. He makes the best. Otherwise, using OEM CV's in my very long road of playing with this stuff only served to frustrate the hell out of me. They came loose, broke or otherwise pissed me off to no end. I prefer a good single 1350 or even better, CTM joint on each end of the shaft... and use high angle pinyons when possible. I've found them to be much more durable, specially for rock crawln.

Cheers!

Oh, I'll be starting my 60 SOA soon. Thanks for the pics and good post.

Thanks Loppy!
Im gonna go ahead and use the DC shafts front and rear, and I am going to go with Jesse from High Angle. Talking with him on the phone, he was very helpful, and sympathetic of my dilema.
My stock diff angle was set at 11*, and at that dimension and the axel just hanging freely, the u joint was binding at the x fer...
After a conversation with cruiseroutfitter (Kurt), it seems like the safest way to go.

Good luck with your SOA...
Post pics when youre doing it.

Chicago

 

[chicago]

Great work Keith!!! Looks like it was a good call to stay home Saturday and work on your rig instead of catching a ride with one of the gang.

We had a great time sorry you couldn't make it. You missed the biggest turn out of Dan's yet, five countem five altogether.

I played with my spring packs for two weekends before I was satisfied. In the first couple of weeks just sitting everything settled a bit. Now after a few trips which flexed things out the rig has settled a bit more. I'll probably add a leaf back in the front packs. They are pretty flat.

Thanks Dan,
Im glad that you all had a great time, and no one got LOST getting there (im assuming).
Im day dreaming about wheelin right about now!Actually, Im just hoping I still have a wife and a shirt on my back when this thing is done. The costs just keep on coming!
Thanks for checking in on my progress!

Chicago

 

[chicago]

Well, Saturday and most of Suday were GREAT days working on the axel. I got the spring perches mounted and tacked on and then proceeded to do the cut and turn.
Measured in 3/8 of an inch from the weld, clamped the housing into a pipe vice and started my cut with a pipe cutter....
There was no indication as to where the housing stopped and the sleeve started...I hit one spot with my angle grinder to get a better and more controlled look and BAM...Cut through the housing a little bit!

I guess I went a bit too deep!

Apparently, youll notice some flaking when you get to the desired depth (which I did), however, I was ignorant of this fact. Once you get to that point STOP and try breaking it free! As Im to understand...one is not able to differentiate the housing from the sleeve when cutting, so you look for the flaking as mentioned above. When I do the other side, Ill post up and let you know further what I did.

Here are a couple of pics of the carnage!

Thanks to Kurt and Dieselcruiserhead for calming me down and talking me off the ledge!

Chicago

 

[chicago]

Couple pics of the perches set!
The diff side took about a good 1.5 hours to cut, but it came out awesome for doing it on a grinder!

Chicago

 

[rusty_tlc]

I guess your committed now!

 

[chicago]

I guess your committed now!

UMMMMM....YEA!!! I guess you could say that!
I asked for it .
Im getting the WHOLE experience and Im not missing out an a thing.

I look at it as paying my tuition for my education!

Chicago

 

[Loppy]

Right on man. You know what you want and are going for it. I applaud that. I've found over the many years of building this stuff, sometimes you have to just take what you got, tune out the white noise, choose a direction and go with your gut. Nice job. Ask 10 guys, get 10 different answers. Thats what's great about this pastime, there's no one way to build these things.

I'm not intimidated in the least with the SOA, but I'm VERY interested in your knuckle turning the cruiser axle. Keep the pics and posts coming. It's getting very interesting now and you're doing a great job.

So will you bolt up the houseing and on jack stands, put the springs under load in order to get the right castor on the knuckles before setting?

Cheers!

 

[chicago]

Right on man. You know what you want and are going for it. I applaud that. I've found over the many years of building this stuff, sometimes you have to just take what you got, tune out the white noise, choose a direction and go with your gut. Nice job. Ask 10 guys, get 10 different answers. Thats what's great about this pastime, there's no one way to build these things.

I'm not intimidated in the least with the SOA, but I'm VERY interested in your knuckle turning the cruiser axle. Keep the pics and posts coming. It's getting very interesting now and you're doing a great job.

So will you bolt up the houseing and on jack stands, put the springs under load in order to get the right castor on the knuckles before setting?

Cheers!

Hey Loppy,
I got the diff angle with the axel loosely bolted up with the full weight of the rig on it...
For the castor angle, the norm for these is 4-6 deg, plus the added diff angle.
My diff angle (NOW) is back to 11 deg, and my castor angle is at 0 deg. SOOO, Ill rotate the castor UP 5 deg when I do it, WITHOUT bolting everything back on.
Since I dont know any better, i split the difference

Tomorrow, Ill be taking another stab at cutting and turning, and hopefully, Ill be able to get further along than griding through my housing and sleeve.
Ill post up how it goes.

Chicago

 

[chicago]

SPRING PERCHES ARE SET AND THE CUT AND TURN IS DONE!!!!!!!

The cut and turn was actully pretty EASY once you get the right depth.
The pass side, I used a pipe cutter and cut too deep, but its salvageable, and I was able to turn it. I took a different approach with the drivers side...I marked my axel circumfrentially for where I wanted my cut to be, then I went at it with my angle grinder and cut off wheel. Before I did this, I took my cut off wheel out, and made a 1/4 in mark all the way around it, so when its spinning, the make is clearly visible. This gave me a good idea what depth I was at. To double check, I took a cut off piece of zip tie, and made a mark at 1/4 in and used that as a depth gauge...I got to my desired depth, put it on to my Ghetto pipe vice and ran a 4 ft pipe through the races....A little heave and she popped free.
The Pass side took a little "back and forth" measureing the angles, but the drivers side, by a miracle Im sure, spun right to my 5* deg angle I was shooting for.
Of the two methods...I thought using the angle grinder was much easier and much less labor intensive.
With the pipe cutter, I was having a HARD TIME getting it to track right, so each revolution was a BATTLE
The angle grinder ( so long as you keep your line straight and dont go too deep), was much easier. I just set the housing on jack stands and started grinding, stopping frequently to check my depth.
Id also like to add, that the line between the housing and the sleeve only became visable, when I rotated the ends...Getting the depth right is the KEY to making this go smoothly (as you might imagine)!

So my final angles are....
10 deg at the diff
5 deg castor angles
and 0 deg for the perches

Here are some pics of the C and T process!!!
Go ahead and LAUGH at my pipe vice set up....Its not pretty, but it did work...With too much down time, I get really anxious. I did not have access to the "RIGHT" tools, so I had to improvise. I would NOT recommend this set up at all as the stand wobbled a lot, I had to stand ON TOP of the stand, or on the spare tire the get adequate leverage (at times) and it didnt hold the housing as well as I thought it should have...

Chicago

 

[chicago]

A couple more of the angle grinder with the wheel marked, and the housing, cut, turned, the cuts widened with a grinding wheel, and tacked into place!
My home boy "COOTER" is dropping by later to weld it all up, as I dont trust my 110 unit to penetrate well enough.

Chicago

 

[chicago]

OOPS!!!
Here it is!

Chicago