Expedition (not rockcrawling) wheeling: relative value of mods for 80? (2 Viewers)
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powderpig
SILVER Star
Pat had a custom spring and spacer set up he did him self. As for the spring I think it may of been the J springs from OME(but it has been a while since I have seen him). So he is setting on a 6 inch lift.
As for the tires the Tread on the bfg MT is better in mud than a MTR, I do think the side wall is better on the MTR over the BFGmt. Always a compromise. I think (but am speculating) that it may be easier to get a BFG in some of the southern countries easier than a MTR. Any anything in a 35-37 may be real hard to get if needed.
later robbie
As for the tires the Tread on the bfg MT is better in mud than a MTR, I do think the side wall is better on the MTR over the BFGmt. Always a compromise. I think (but am speculating) that it may be easier to get a BFG in some of the southern countries easier than a MTR. Any anything in a 35-37 may be real hard to get if needed.
later robbie
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Great thread , keep the posts coming.
Great topic. I can’t believe I missed this thread. Man, I gotta spend more time in this forum.
I spent a good chunk of August cruising CA. Most of that time was driving through some of the trails of Central Coastal, Northern Coastal and some trails as I made my way down the Eastern side of CA. All of the trails I did were for the sole purpose of getting to a beautiful vista, a remote campite, or as simple as just checking out the backcountry in expeditionary fashion. I encountered just about every type of terrain and terrain composition. Good Times! My point being, bare minimum, all a person needs is an 80 series LC (stock lift) in excellent working condition, and tires as aggressive or better than the Revo’s on my rig. With this you can go almost anywhere.
I know what you mean by fighting the urge to buy the neatest practical cool looking bolt-on. I don’t fault myself for getting the ARB bulbar though… it does something for the look of the truck. A lift is definitely not needed. Through thoughtful driving and tire placement one can avoid rock damage, and just a little elbow grease (getting out of the truck and moving rocks or dirt to create ramps) will get you over the larger obstacles. Most of the time getting out is not needed if you know your truck and can gauge tire placement. Expeditionary type off-roading will need this on small occasions. Most important it’s all about making the right decisions.
Not much else is needed in terms of mods… just common sense… maybe a GPS just in case you want to wander the Anza Borrego Desert in early spring.
I spent a good chunk of August cruising CA. Most of that time was driving through some of the trails of Central Coastal, Northern Coastal and some trails as I made my way down the Eastern side of CA. All of the trails I did were for the sole purpose of getting to a beautiful vista, a remote campite, or as simple as just checking out the backcountry in expeditionary fashion. I encountered just about every type of terrain and terrain composition. Good Times! My point being, bare minimum, all a person needs is an 80 series LC (stock lift) in excellent working condition, and tires as aggressive or better than the Revo’s on my rig. With this you can go almost anywhere.
I know what you mean by fighting the urge to buy the neatest practical cool looking bolt-on. I don’t fault myself for getting the ARB bulbar though… it does something for the look of the truck. A lift is definitely not needed. Through thoughtful driving and tire placement one can avoid rock damage, and just a little elbow grease (getting out of the truck and moving rocks or dirt to create ramps) will get you over the larger obstacles. Most of the time getting out is not needed if you know your truck and can gauge tire placement. Expeditionary type off-roading will need this on small occasions. Most important it’s all about making the right decisions.
Not much else is needed in terms of mods… just common sense… maybe a GPS just in case you want to wander the Anza Borrego Desert in early spring.
Damn, I left off the roof rack... it's nice to have one of those too.
This is a fun thread. Phil has made excellent suggestions...
For what it is worth, my opinion on building a truck for expedition travel would be as follows:
1. Start with a great vehicle, like a Land Cruiser Wagon or Toyota Truck. (I did one expedition into Mexico with a Land Rover, and learned my lesson)
2. Install HD tires, like the MTR or BFG AT/MT rated at D or higher. Trend towards a narrower section width but tall height, which allows good clearance, less lift and better efficiency (like a 265/75, 235/85 or 255/85)
3. Organization and loading: This is VERY critical. Heavy loads down low and light loads up top. Avoid a roof rack if at all possible, unless lightly loaded or for a roof tent. Build a load system for all of your major equipment needs. Have a well organized kitchen, accessible recovery gear, etc. You will be living out of the vehicle, so it is critical that it be organized and safe. This is WAY more important than big tires and a lift IMO.
4. Passenger comfort: Have a comfortable place to drive, good seats, well organized cockpit, a place for the cameras, sunglasses, hats, bug repellent, etc. Have a comfortable and easy to set-up sleeping system. It should only take 10-15 minutes from parking the car to having a comfortable and dry bed. A fridge is a must IMHO.
5. Navigation and Communication: Know where you are and where you are going with a redundant system. Know how to use a map and compass, and have an exit plan. Be able to communicate with your travel partners clearly, and over great distances (2m is my preference).
6. REALLY GOOD SUSPENSION. Don't skimp here. It needs to ride comfortably and reliably all day long, for weeks on end with loads at or above GVW.
7. Quality support systems: Air compressors, dual batteries, recovery systems (winch, etc.) are all critical, and should be well thought out, designed and easily serviced. If you can't repair the systems on your vehicle, (unsupported) expedition travel is probably not a good choice.
8. Technical trail modifications: These are usually the first thing addressed, but really are not that important on an expedition as you will most likely be traveling "roads". I tend to search out very rough tracks in Mexico with deep water crossing and heavy erosion so lockers and snorkels are appropriate, but still not required.
9. TEST, TEST, TEST: Never bolt mods on your truck the night before a trek. Test all systems thoroughly.
10. This is last on this list, but probably as important as number one: The trek is not about the vehicle, but about the experience and adventure. Visiting a distant place that a fraction of the population will even see in books. The vehicle and all of these modifications can be a distraction to the real intent of the expedition. Don't be afraid to stop the vehicle and talk with the locals, be friendly and generous, especially when traveling in other countries. I always bring several 24 packs of Coke, as it is the ultimate "ice breaker".
Man, all this talk of expedition stuff makes me want to get out soon Baja (all the way to Cabo) in December is my next endeavor...
For what it is worth, my opinion on building a truck for expedition travel would be as follows:
1. Start with a great vehicle, like a Land Cruiser Wagon or Toyota Truck. (I did one expedition into Mexico with a Land Rover, and learned my lesson)
2. Install HD tires, like the MTR or BFG AT/MT rated at D or higher. Trend towards a narrower section width but tall height, which allows good clearance, less lift and better efficiency (like a 265/75, 235/85 or 255/85)
3. Organization and loading: This is VERY critical. Heavy loads down low and light loads up top. Avoid a roof rack if at all possible, unless lightly loaded or for a roof tent. Build a load system for all of your major equipment needs. Have a well organized kitchen, accessible recovery gear, etc. You will be living out of the vehicle, so it is critical that it be organized and safe. This is WAY more important than big tires and a lift IMO.
4. Passenger comfort: Have a comfortable place to drive, good seats, well organized cockpit, a place for the cameras, sunglasses, hats, bug repellent, etc. Have a comfortable and easy to set-up sleeping system. It should only take 10-15 minutes from parking the car to having a comfortable and dry bed. A fridge is a must IMHO.
5. Navigation and Communication: Know where you are and where you are going with a redundant system. Know how to use a map and compass, and have an exit plan. Be able to communicate with your travel partners clearly, and over great distances (2m is my preference).
6. REALLY GOOD SUSPENSION. Don't skimp here. It needs to ride comfortably and reliably all day long, for weeks on end with loads at or above GVW.
7. Quality support systems: Air compressors, dual batteries, recovery systems (winch, etc.) are all critical, and should be well thought out, designed and easily serviced. If you can't repair the systems on your vehicle, (unsupported) expedition travel is probably not a good choice.
8. Technical trail modifications: These are usually the first thing addressed, but really are not that important on an expedition as you will most likely be traveling "roads". I tend to search out very rough tracks in Mexico with deep water crossing and heavy erosion so lockers and snorkels are appropriate, but still not required.
9. TEST, TEST, TEST: Never bolt mods on your truck the night before a trek. Test all systems thoroughly.
10. This is last on this list, but probably as important as number one: The trek is not about the vehicle, but about the experience and adventure. Visiting a distant place that a fraction of the population will even see in books. The vehicle and all of these modifications can be a distraction to the real intent of the expedition. Don't be afraid to stop the vehicle and talk with the locals, be friendly and generous, especially when traveling in other countries. I always bring several 24 packs of Coke, as it is the ultimate "ice breaker".
Man, all this talk of expedition stuff makes me want to get out soon
Baja (all the way to Cabo) in December is my next endeavor...
Last summer
Expeditionwest...I agree with you and this is one of the most memorable scenes from my trip when I spent about two weeks in the Oregon high desert. I came upon this tree that had been struck by lighting, as you see only a very limited area had burned.
Expeditionwest...I agree with you and this is one of the most memorable scenes from my trip when I spent about two weeks in the Oregon high desert. I came upon this tree that had been struck by lighting, as you see only a very limited area had burned.
Just so you know, I understand these are sold all over the place like camping stores and such but this is a bad idea. If you get tagged by a snake you wanna stay calm and seek medical attention. You DO NOT want to go cutting or sucking on the bite. Infection and other risks go up and you won't get any of the venom out. This about it with logic, how fast your blood is moving and so on. Those kits and that train of thought are old school. I bred reptiles for 5 years as my only sorce of income and I live in the AZ desert so I understand snakes well.
sonoranfun said:
sonoranfun I respect your experience and comment but I not sure that you are familiar with the Extractor.
http://backcountry-equipment.com/accessrs/a-emerg/venom_extractor.html
Its not the old school "cut and suck".
I agree 100% that you wanna stay calm and seek medical attention ASAP but I do beleive the Extractor "can make the difference of saving a limb if bitten by a Rattlesnake if you are in a remote area."
Here are some Excerpts from medical literature:
Auerbach, PS, Donner HJ, Weiss EA. Field Guide to Wilderness Medicine. Mosby, 2003. pg 320."The classic recommendation to incise and suck the wound also is controversial. Incising the bite site across fang marks is not recommended. Mouth suction is contraindicated (Moontrail translation: do not use mouth suction). With regard to suction, a negative-pressure device called The Extractor (Sawyer Products) may remove a clinically significant amount of venom if it is applied over the bite within 3 minutes of the bite and left in place for 30 to 60 minutes. However, it may also promote local necrosis in the pattern of the applied suction."
Juckett G, Hancox JG. Venonous snakebites in the United States: Management review and update. American Family Physician 2002;65(7):1367-74,1377."First-aid techniques such as arterial tourniquets, application of ice, and wound incisions are ineffective and can be harmful; however, suction with a venom extractor within the first five minutes after the bite may be useful. Conservative measures, such as immobilization and lymphatic constriction bands, are now advocated until emergency care can be administered."
Forgey, WW, Ed. Wildnerness Medical Society: Practice guidelines for wilderness emergency care. 2nd Edition. The Globe Pequot Press, 2001. pg 85."The only scientifically proven method for extracting venom from a bite site is with the Extractor device (Sawyer Products). In animal studies, it has been demonstrated that up to 30 percent of total injected venom can be removed if the device is used within three minutes after the bite occurs."
Blackman JR, Dillon S. Venomous snakebite: past, present, and future treatment options. Journal of the American Board of Family Practice 1992;5(4):399-405. "Field treatment [of a snake bite] focuses on the application of a vacuum extractor and transportation to the nearest medical facility. Although constriction band use can be helpful, tourniquets, incision and suction, and ice therapy are contraindicated."
I intended from Day 1 to make my LX an expedition vehicle rather than a hard core crawler. I'm nearly there - I am very happy with the truck's capabilities for nasty logging roads etc. I think the 80 Series is one of the very best choices for this type of vehicle, esp when equipped with factory lockers. Because I have a capable cargo trailer I don't have the need for extensive internal or external storage mods.
John Davies' Home Page
John
John Davies' Home Page
John
My toughts are...Even in expedition type outfitting there are different needs. If you are heading toward Canadian arctic your outfit should be very different to one you are going to cross Sahara with. After a couple of Saharan expedition my advice for this type of wheeling would be:
- upgraded susspension for heavier loads
- tires, good all terain (stock size is ok)
- as much fuel space as possible - larger main + aux tanks plus jerries etc
- roof rack
- heavy duty compressor for tire inflation
- gps + sat phone like thuraya, etc
- tools and spares
- winch - pretty much useless (nothing to attach to)
- sand plates + air jack + shovels + elastic recovery line - to get you out of trouble
- bumpers - pretty much useless (no animals to hit)
- dual battery setup is nice but really useful only if you are going to risk your life and go alone
- fridge - you must be kidding
- extra lights - not useful (why to drive during night in uncharted lands?)
- snorkel - not useful (rivers on desert?)
Plenty of info about outfitting for this kind of expeditions you may find in a great book Sahara Overland by Chris Scott
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...bs_b_2_1/102-9416228-1147362?v=glance&s=books
and on Sahara Travel Forum
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/cg...ravel+Forum&number=30&DaysPrune=30&LastLogin=
- upgraded susspension for heavier loads
- tires, good all terain (stock size is ok)
- as much fuel space as possible - larger main + aux tanks plus jerries etc
- roof rack
- heavy duty compressor for tire inflation
- gps + sat phone like thuraya, etc
- tools and spares
- winch - pretty much useless (nothing to attach to)
- sand plates + air jack + shovels + elastic recovery line - to get you out of trouble
- bumpers - pretty much useless (no animals to hit)
- dual battery setup is nice but really useful only if you are going to risk your life and go alone
- fridge - you must be kidding
- extra lights - not useful (why to drive during night in uncharted lands?)
- snorkel - not useful (rivers on desert?)
Plenty of info about outfitting for this kind of expeditions you may find in a great book Sahara Overland by Chris Scott
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...bs_b_2_1/102-9416228-1147362?v=glance&s=books
and on Sahara Travel Forum
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/cg...ravel+Forum&number=30&DaysPrune=30&LastLogin=
computerbookstore said:
Have you ever used a 12v fridge in the bush?
Great book suggestion. An excellent resource to the desert traveler (I have both editions)
I understand that plenty of people on this forum consider a fridge an essential part of their rig. Still I have no idea why and what they keep in their fridges. Maybe I need a revelation.
Last edited:
And why would you need "Temperature reduction" for? To keep frozen meat?
The best first-aid for snake bite is prevention. The only bite I've ever dealt with in 35 years in the desert (I'm really not that old!) was a dog. I've traveled in the desert as a child, and later with dogs and children. People are smarter than snakes. Rattlesnakes are notoriously stupid and react only on instinct. An understanding of their habits is required. There are several rules to follow.sonoranfun said:
1: Travel in groups well spread out. When 1 person finds a snake, others need to be out of the snake's range to offer assistance.
2: Watch for signs or warning sounds. Know the snake's habits and what to look for.
3: Snakes only strike at movement. When confronted with one, stand totally still. Call for help from a friend nearby. A snake is only dangerous when coiled to strike. If he is streched out or crawling, you may kill him at your leisure.
4: When assisting a friend confronted with a snake a "snake charmer" is best. That would be a .22 pistol about the size of your cel phone. If you don't have one, you can stand about 15 feet away at 90 degrees from the direction of strike and pelt the snake with rocks or sticks, or use a long stick to induce the snake to strike. Again, the snake will strike at any moving object so be creative. Once the snake has struck at something, (preferably not your friend!) he is uncoiled and harmless. Now your friend can back away while you kill the snake quickly before he can coil up again.
5: The killing of a snake may seem to be treacherous behavior. I was given the advice to do so by a forest ranger sworn to protect wildlife. Rattlesnakes are unnaturally populous due to man's control of their natural predators. They are also naturally shy. We can destroy those we find without greatly reducing their numbers. So on the rare occasion that you see one, feel free to get yourself a new hatband!
computerbookstore said:
Meat and cold drinks...
It sounds like (from your comments above) you have some experience in Africa. Just imagine if at any point in the day you could reach in the fridge and pull out a cold water, or iced tea? I can use my fridge effectively for weeks on end by filling from my bulk water storage into Nalgene bottles. We make iced tea and have cold water available. It also allows us to store butter and meat, or even a handful clams bought from a local, or a few fillets of triggerfish that I just caught with the speargun.
It is a comfort accessory, like music, or good seats, or a roof tent. These are all things that are not required to travel, but are almost a necessity to travel for any length of time (especially with a significant other).
And one of the greatest benefits of the fridge is as a social lubricant. I always carry a few 24 packs of Coke when traveling into the interior of Mexico. I always keep about ten of them in the fridge. You have no idea how happy it can make people on a warm day to have a COLD COKE handed to them. It is the worlds most recognizable brand, and immediately puts locals and military alike at ease. I have gained much more favor by using this tactic than any other.
I remember stopping and asking about the route from an frail, old Tarahumaran man, a days 4wd travel deep into the Sierra Madre. I handed him this freezing cold coke, and I saw his hands start to tremble... I asked if everything was OK... He said "es fria" (its cold), and flashed me this huge toothless grin.
