Excessively underpowered 1HZ + poor fuel economy (2 Viewers)

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Joined
Nov 22, 2009
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Location
Utrecht, Netherlands
So a month into owning my newly converted 1HZ 80 series with rebuilt A442 (hydro) with extreme vb we've decided to go on a long trip. We've made it as far as Kamloops and have unfortunately had to stop to check things out with the car. The conversion was done very well, but the engine is still a bit of an unknown and we've seen pretty poor fuel economy and going up some steep hills (the pass from Squamish to Cache Creek for example) we're slowed down to 20 mph or less on a few steep sections.

First off, yes I know these are not real speed machines, and this one is still new to me, but the current power and mileage still seems way under from what it should be. We're loaded down a bit with camping gear, but don't have a ton of heavy stuff and aren't towing. We're currently getting around 16.5 mpg (US), which I think is around 14.2l/100km. I don't drive fast at all, in fact I baby it to try for best mileage possible and rarely go faster than 55-60 mph.

We decided since we were driving through Kamloops this morning to stop by Toyoda 4WD and talk to Tony since he comes so highly recommended. My first thought to him was injectors because of the unknown mileage of the engine, but that's impossible to do on the road. I should mention I also suggested because on the hill climbing yesterday we started to see a lot more black smoke, enough to color the back bumper a bit. My other thought was something to do with the Airdog fuel filter/pump letting air in because it's almost as loud as the idling engine. What Tony discovered that we're now waiting to be swapped is the engine fan clutch (or viscous coupler I think) was seized and wouldn't release so it was always running at rpm. We're hopeful that this will resolve some of our issues, but what else should we check or watch for? More detail is on the rig in the post "Bought a new FZJ80 with 1HZ...some questions" or something to that wording. Typing and posting from my phone, sorry I can't link it. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!
 
14 litres/100km is what you expect to get from a loaded 80 with a 1HZ.

There are some incredulous MPG claims on the net, unfortunately these claims can lead to new owners being disappointed with their results.
12-14 litres/100km is what most cruisers do in this part of the world.

Black smoke at altitude is to be expected. The 1HZ's already run very rich, as air pressure drops at altitude you have to let off on the pedal or if you live at altitude, detune them a bit.
 
compression test is the first thing i would recommend.
then a seafoam cleansing.
then injectors

where did the engine come from? any history at all?
 
You wont improve on the mileage by much,but you shouldnt have smoke that discolours the bumper.
I can usually get 12-13l/100klm at 110kph on long runs but the roads are fairy flat here.
The injectors probably need doing and possibly the pump needs to be checked.
If you were getting air in,it would be near impossible to start in the morning.
I dont how steep that pass is but I have been slowed to 20 mph or even less on steep inclines.
Ive also found weight is not much of a factor on level ground,but wind resistance from roof racks etc kill consumption.

You can sometimes turn the fuel down a little for no noticeable loss of power.

The timing belt alignment marks are worth checking.

The cold starts in the morning are a good general indicator of the engines condition.
Big clouds of grey smoke and running on 4-5 cyl is not good.
If its starts easy and smoothly with just a flash of smoke(1/2 second) you can be reasonably sure the engine is ok.

Original post https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...ught-fjz80-midst-1hz-swap-some-questions.html
 
Okay, many questions to respond to and still just with my little phone... :) As I said, I had Tony in Kamloops swap out the fan and clutch since it was seized and then we turned up the fuel 1/4 turn. He drive it around the block and agreed that even considering what it is, it felt a little sluggish. He finished up and we've now driven up the road 80 miles and I can confirm a significant power gain! Not tremendous of course, but enough to not gear down for every little hill or needing to floor it. And from what I can tell watching the miles and gauge, the fuel consumption will be a bit better.

As to the history of the engine, I'm still waiting for the receipt from the PO, but he threw nothing but money at it and did a lot of research on the various parts and sources. He claims a compression test was done prior to the engine being crated and it was good. I know, that doesn't count for much, but starting in the morning gives off a puff of white smoke and then clears up. I've done the simple test of unscrewing and resting the oil cap on the valve cover over the hole and it doesn't move at all.

I'll admit, these were some pretty steep hills yesterday, up to 13% grade, which is pretty damn steep in my book! We're still blowing a little black when I lay into the peddle, but the power is a big improvement so far! Will try to keep this posted. Thanks for the feedback this far.
 
indicates amount of blow-by (past the piston rings), a worn engine will blow the oil cap off given half the chance and if really bad will then cover you with oil!
Still a very rudimentary test - a compression test on each cylinder is the best.
 
welcome to bc .your millage is not that bad . did you turn the fuel up anymore . that road out of pemberton is steep but 20 mph is terrible should be way better than that. try pulling your air cleaner to see if you get more hp .if your coming back through vancouver make a point of dropping by ateb , they are air fuel performance go to gurrus 1-604-438-7537 might want to post in the local coastal cruiser club too ,seems to be alot of talented diesel tecs spread throughout bc. could be shivvy diesel too do not use petrocan diesel in these things . huskey or chevron for me only .
 
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We drove from Kamloops yesterday all the way up to Jasper, better power, but really saw some black smoke trailing behind us when we got into the bigger hills. Regardless of the smoke and all the unburnt fuel I'm obviously wasting, watching the mileage I'm guessing we'll get around 18 mpg (US) or 13l/100k. It's not a huge improvement, but I'll take it! And, considering we gained 2000 ft in elevation overall yesterday that's pretty good. I did end up turning the fuel back down 1/8th of a turn this morning, we'll see what difference that makes. It could be that I end up turning the fuel back to where it was before since we've taken some load off the engine with the fan clutch working properly. I also emailed the PO once more to try to impress upon him how badly I need the info on the engine. Seems silly to pay for a compression test or a tool if it's already been done and only has 1000 miles on it since.

Along the lines of the injectors, what difference would it have made if the engine sat unmoved for 4 years? Would that increase the need to have them rebuilt? This isn't something I'll be able to do on the road, but perhaps the seafoam I can? Do I just run it through in a tank of gas, or what's the proper way? I'm currently running some Lucas stuff every tank so I'm sure that helps some. In Portland we're on 5% bio anyway so I don't usually add anything there...

Just for my own amusement and reference, this is the load I'm carrying. Mostly camping and climbing gear, nothing extreme. The cooler was replaced with a fridge (BEST INVESTMENT EVER, imho that is) thanks to Tor picking one up for us so we could just collect it on the way to Canada.
DSCF4415.webp
 
The injectors wont deteriorate just sitting there. Worn injectors are missing metal and only new tips can make them new.
The injector springs also lose tension and can open earlier than thay are supposed to.
Seafoam and other concoctions will only help clean the injectors,but IMO if the injectors are in good condition ,they wont coke up with soot.
It wont hurt to do them when you get home
 
hi mate, id check Ur kick down cable for the auto is in spec this can make it feel slow if not adjusted correct. is the auto slipping at all? check next time u hit a steep hill, this can also make it seem severely underpowered. N/A 1hz's aren't breaking any land speed records either and with the auto sucking a fair bit of power (i recently converted my 12HT from a old auto to a new h55f 5 speed with a new HD clutch, its amazing how much more powerful it was without the auto sucking the life out of it), plus loaded up and then the a/c again taxes more power if u use it 13/100k is pretty darn good for a n/a 1hz, if u want more power and economy get a turbo !
 
hi mate, id check Ur kick down cable for the auto is in spec this can make it feel slow if not adjusted correct. is the auto slipping at all? check next time u hit a steep hill, this can also make it seem severely underpowered. N/A 1hz's aren't breaking any land speed records either and with the auto sucking a fair bit of power (i recently converted my 12HT from a old auto to a new h55f 5 speed with a new HD clutch, its amazing how much more powerful it was without the auto sucking the life out of it), plus loaded up and then the a/c again taxes more power if u use it 13/100k is pretty darn good for a n/a 1hz, if u want more power and economy get a turbo !

I looked at the kick down when I first got it back from Torfab and did check on it this morning, it still looks the same and within spec. The tranny operates as it should and shifts when it should, albeit, very firmly due to the vb. I know a 5 speed would be better, but it's hard to swap out a brand new rebuilt hydraulic a442 like I have, especially when I just paid for the diesel conversion! It'll be a future project for sure, just like the turbo. Actually, the turbo may happen later this year...

i do hope you have a pyro installed ...
No, but I should say once more, I really do drive it like my grandpa would. I consistently cruise at 55 mph max and let it slow down on purpose so as not to tax everything too much. I don't drive around with it floored all the time. I thought pyros were only a real necessity when you have a turbo anyway? One thing I don't have that I'm realizing would be nice since I'm currently sitting at 3500 ft is an HAC...

And of course, a new day, a new problem...Actually, two. First, we found a small hole in a bag of nuts we had in the car and after pulling everything out and searching the car, a couple of mouse droppings on the carpet behind the shifter console... :mad: And then to top it all off, we're in Jasper so we're hitting cold weather for the first time and it appears that my glow system isn't working because at 34F this morning, it was a bitch to start! Took a minute or two of cranking (not continuous) to get it to start, and then a big cloud of smoke. I've really gotta catch a break here!
 
Driving like a grandma in hills with low RPM's can make your EGT's go sky high very quickly. If the trans is not downshifting and the motor lug's, it makes lots of black smoke.

On hills and high engine loads, higher RPM's will reduce smoke and lower EGT's. Minimum smoke should be your goal until you get a pyro.

A pyro is your friend!

Doug
 
And then to top it all off, we're in Jasper so we're hitting cold weather for the first time and it appears that my glow system isn't working because at 34F this morning, it was a bitch to start! Took a minute or two of cranking (not continuous) to get it to start, and then a big cloud of smoke. I've really gotta catch a break here!


Its ok to run a wire direct from the battery to the glow plugs for about 10 seconds ,assuming the glow plugs work.
I did this for a couple of weeks
 
roscoFJ73 said:
Its ok to run a wire direct from the battery to the glow plugs for about 10 seconds ,assuming the glow plugs work.
I did this for a couple of weeks

Good to know you can just force the plugs to glow like that. I wish I'd realized that when I had my 3B! I had no end of problems glowing in that thing, at least until I installed a Wilson switch.

I was able to get Tor on the phone today (for freaking $.79/minute! :( Thank you AT&T!) and we talked it over and he helped me with the wiring he had done with the timer. It was as simple as bypassing the ground he had to the temp sender (I think) and putting in a permanent ground. It's a pretty slick setup he made that duplicates the factory setup, but with complete control over glow duration and still only turns on when needed. Pretty good considering the only part of the glow system present when I bought the rig were the relays. I figure the piece that's not working at the moment is the temp sender and it was too warm when he built it to test. Either way, we'll sort it out when I get back to civilization in a month.
 
Driving like a grandma in hills with low RPM's can make your EGT's go sky high very quickly. If the trans is not downshifting and the motor lug's, it makes lots of black smoke.

On hills and high engine loads, higher RPM's will reduce smoke and lower EGT's. Minimum smoke should be your goal until you get a pyro.

A pyro is your friend!

Doug

X3
Even a lot worse if it is overfueling and has a crook injector spray pattern.
A pyro is your friend on climbs like that as said previously. :lol: Bet you get a shock when you install one;) won't be the first either:o
 
IF you direct glow, it is best to pull a plug, stick it in a vise *gently*, ground to the vise and the power to the threaded tip. hold till red hot and count the seconds.
that is your time to hold the button or the wire. too short and it does little. too long and the glows will burn out (might take a few times for this to happen).
also
the wire from the battery to the glows can get VERY hot so be careful.
 
the wire from the battery to the glows can get VERY hot so be careful.

Yes it does get hot. I made up a little jumper lead with some small clips.
 
i do hope you have a pyro installed ...

Driving like a grandma in hills with low RPM's can make your EGT's go sky high very quickly. If the trans is not downshifting and the motor lug's, it makes lots of black smoke.

On hills and high engine loads, higher RPM's will reduce smoke and lower EGT's. Minimum smoke should be your goal until you get a pyro.

A pyro is your friend!

Doug


Just read this whole thread among a few others and I'm starting to understand...
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/96339-egts-your-1hd-t-5.html

I did turn down the fuel back to where it was, but my tranny won't manually shift down to what I need not to blow black smoke up the hills here without just dropping down to 'L' and going 20 mph. Granted, I'm currently driving up and down hills at altitudes of 5500-6500'. My guess is I should turn the fuel down more while I'm up here just to be on the safe side since I don't have a pyro yet, and of course, stick to the right lane since I'll be in 1st on the big hills...:steer:
 

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