Engine came back from a rebuild at the machine shop with the parts that failed - what could have caused this?

[LCnAZ]

The thicker the motor oils ffilm in mil's is , the greater it protects the 2 metallurgy surfaces that it is designed to do ...

motor oils primary number 1 mission is cooling , reduce heat from friction of metal contact to contact while moving also against each other , hence less breakdown and loss of metal over time , so this = tight clearances and tight like new tolerances m same as plasti-guage when you install new rod and main bearings



the thinner the viscosity , less oil film mil's , heat thermal is UP HIGHER , and now metallurgy wear and tear is going on FAST

think of drilling a hole in a frame rail , u keep drill bit COOL using OIL right ? this = long sharp bit life and even nice hole in metal too , NO BLUING of either bit top or frame rail ....


u use water or say WD-40 as a lube oil drilling same as above , it WILL SMOKE OFF FAST and blue drill bit tip and metal frame hole too ...

and drill bit tip gets DULL fast and can snap and break too



does this exacting details same as inside a engine theory applied here make better sense ?



the oem FSM viscosity chart is saying use the THICKEST possible motor oil for the greatest protection and anti-wear factor possible , as it relates to your outside climate temperature range it spells out ..

its a bit of give and take and achieving a optimum balance to keep the highest possible protection level you can


here is DC east coast today in January its currently 46' F , unusually warm fot this time of year ?

but , is it now with hotter and hotter winters globally , as the earth continues to get hooter each cycle around the sun ?

i am now today at its 10W40 ish range , closer to 20W-50 , .....




matt

Hey Matt, thanks for the tutorial. My specific question regards reading those two top rows. Is that read as: at 100F either 20W-50 or 10W-50 are appropriate?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Hey Matt, thanks for the tutorial. My specific question regards reading those two top rows. Is that read as: at 100F either 20W-50 or 10W-50 are appropriate?

You need to study the owners manual engine oil viscosity chart from the understanding and view that it’s NOT a step by step of absolutes , I have always understood it to be what I term a :
“ Sliding Scale “ , as in the warmer the ambient the thicker the viscosity needs to be , the cooler you go say if you live in ALMA Colorado , near my favorite place to stop out there AL-MART …
In the dead of July and August it gets cold at night and if you’re higher up into and beyond the Timber line , it snows and wintry mix year round …

So this is why it’s a bit confusing to actually fully get one’s head wrapped around it …

I have never seen a 10W-50 motor oil on my Toyota Lifetime ?

But I do indeed custom blend / mix the Valvoline fully synthetic ( ( non-zinc rich ) formula , because I do have newer updated stainless steel aftermarket high-flow catalytic converters , that were installed very very well along with a all stainless steel properly tuned back pressure for a 4.0L 6 cylinder TOYOTA engine , this hand made Kustom OEM manifolds back system was installed by the P/O and I have no reason to remove it , it was a recent needed replacement / repair …

If I was not running a catalytic converter , say a 8/80-9/87 2F FJ60 , same in kind to my 1983 FJ43L-KC general counties platform which never had a smog or emissions system to begin with , I would and do the exact same approach above and below here , except I do use a stand alone ZDDP zinc rich additive to my motor oil in the 2F , I have yet to find a API certified zinc rich ZDDP formula that comes pre-mixed in a fully synthetic 20w-50 and also the 10w-30 / 40 to achieve my best possible viscosity blend and ratios in the winter months ?

Same , I run straight 20w-50 in it Summer driving season and add the ZDDP additive ,

I should note here : I have never seen any TOYOTA a print media back in the day that talks about the whole ZINC formula and the Land Cruiser F series engines , nor …the topic of NOT using it in a Converters equipped 3F-E that at the end of the day is a solid lifters , adjustable tappets and lobe or lifer contact and adjustable push rods to the beveled tops of there solid lifters same in kind to a 1962 SIAMESE F FJ40 engine …



20W-50 and either 10W-40 or 10W-30 depending on if I can actually find the MOBILE 1 high mileage 10W-40 , it’s becoming harder and harder to locate and source both MOBILE 1 ‘s fully synthetic in the unique high mileage formulas .

 

[LCnAZ]

You need to study the owners manual engine oil viscosity chart from the understanding and view that it’s NOT a step by step of absolutes , I have always understood it to be what I term a :
“ Sliding Scale “ , as in the warmer the ambient the thicker the viscosity needs to be , the cooler you go say if you live in ALMA Colorado , near my favorite place to stop out there AL-MART …
In the dead of July and August it gets cold at night and if you’re higher up into and beyond the Timber line , it snows and wintry mix year round …

So this is why it’s a bit confusing to actually fully get one’s head wrapped around it …

I have never seen a 10W-50 motor oil on my Toyota Lifetime ?

But I do indeed custom blend / mix the Valvoline fully synthetic ( ( non-zinc rich ) formula , because I do have newer updated stainless steel aftermarket high-flow catalytic converters , that were installed very very well along with a all stainless steel properly tuned back pressure for a 4.0L 6 cylinder TOYOTA engine , this hand made Kustom OEM manifolds back system was installed by the P/O and I have no reason to remove it , it was a recent needed replacement / repair …

If I was not running a catalytic converter , say a 8/80-9/87 2F FJ60 , same in kind to my 1983 FJ43L-KC general counties platform which never had a smog or emissions system to begin with , I would and do the exact same approach above and below here , except I do use a stand alone ZDDP zinc rich additive to my motor oil in the 2F , I have yet to find a API certified zinc rich ZDDP formula that comes pre-mixed in a fully synthetic 20w-50 and also the 10w-30 / 40 to achieve my best possible viscosity blend and ratios in the winter months ?

Same , I run straight 20w-50 in it Summer driving season and add the ZDDP additive ,

I should note here : I have never seen any TOYOTA a print media back in the day that talks about the whole ZINC formula and the Land Cruiser F series engines , nor …the topic of NOT using it in a Converters equipped 3F-E that at the end of the day is a solid lifters , adjustable tappets and lobe or lifer contact and adjustable push rods to the beveled tops of there solid lifters same in kind to a 1962 SIAMESE F FJ40 engine …



20W-50 and either 10W-40 or 10W-30 depending on if I can actually find the MOBILE 1 high mileage 10W-40 , it’s becoming harder and harder to locate and source both MOBILE 1 ‘s fully synthetic in the unique high mileage formulas .

Where do you find your 20W-50 and the stand alone additive?

 

[Pighead]

Where do you find your 20W-50 and the stand alone additive?

O'Reilly's

 

[Skreddy]

you think using 10W-30 is what trashed the pistons? getting some other advice that I can't really understand. Asked the shop that rebuilt it just now and they recommended lucas hot rod 20W-50 for a break in - what do you think please? Anything else I need to do once I get it all back together?

Do you know if it ever got hot/overheated? If so, that could’ve started some accelerated wear. Unlikely to know what a previous owner did to it in that department or how their oil change schedule was. I can’t say the WHY, but the WHAT is 2 different metals clearly tried to occupy the same space in time. This was likely from poor lubrication or coolant related overheating.

As for oil and rebuilds, etc. I would use whatever the shop recommends. If they offer a warranty, I bet they won’t honor it if it blows and you weren’t using the oil they specified because some guys on the internet said not to. This isn’t a knock on anyone’s oil preference that has posted, just something I’ve learned. We don’t know if they built this engine with everything a little on the tight side, loose side, what parts, etc.

I know guys that swear by everything Lucas oil and only use their breakin oil on new engines. I use the “Driven” brand breakin on my big block Chevy builds, then switch to Valvoline VR1. That VR1 goes in every pushrod engine I own. But that’s like the 5th oil recommendation in this thread now….

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Where do you find your 20W-50 and the stand alone additive?

O'Reilly's

View attachment 3529425

we sadly do not have any O'Reilly's around the Central Atlantic Region for some dumb azz reason ?


i have always held my local NAPA Auto Parts store as #1 in the highest regard place for all the good goodness , like we are discussing here above .... ZDDP / ZINC Rich stand alone additive wise .....

- i concur 100% with fellow tech-savoy member and everyone's Solid MUD Buddy too.. @Pighead .... , the LUCAS oil products additives and supplements brand line up , i my personal and professional opinion is the TOP-TIER A+ TOP-Shelf smack as far as this goes .....

- i use have and do use , and apply several of there products for the long and longer term in all my TOYOTA personal fleet ..........

- i will save all the the kool 411 on my Fully Synthetic LUCAS product testimonials for another time , and try-hard to stay on topic here .......

- you do not have to stick to the NON-ZDDP / non-zinc-rich Valvoline 20w-50 fully synthetic formula like i have to in GHOST's 3F-E catalytic converters equipped motor .....

- this below is what i personally choose to use in any older no-cats F series Land Cruiser engines / 1FZ-FE and older ....fyi and add the LUCAS Zinc to it , mainly because it is API , and the latest SP grade certified too !

- this is what matters most to me , bottom line ..


- i purchase it now through AMAZON , they have the latest updated product container Labeling info on them as well , ....fyi

- this matters less to me , but i should share this fact , as is important to everyone as it should be ,,,,,

- current Prime to my shop door , on a 6pack case is $51.20 = what ever local sales tax , u get taxed on by your local MAN ?

- that's $8.53 per QT. , my state sales tax , and it's still , under $8.99 per QT. !

- that is a fair shake in my world , to get what i feel is the best dam possible motor oil for my needs and want's ...


- i hope this helps you make a solid better more informed decision moving forward ........


matt ..

.
LINK HERE BELOW :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GAN3GC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

.

 

[Spook50]

Cat Converters are a LOT cheaper than engines.

Especially if you don't use em!

 

[LCnAZ]

no ,

i did not say or imply that in any way ....... did i ?

this relates to the oil viscosity topic we entered into the discussion , and i mention more then once , the whole broad brush oil viscosity tech tooic , is a longer term wear and tear factor topic as in 10K + chunks of miles ......

if u ran 5W-30 conventual cheap store brand Safeway motor oil , that was API certified , in the ARAZONA desert summer time , all summer and HOT spring and HOT fall , i bet there would be a serious issue verifiable that would occur ...!

- i saw this during my time at the dealership ship service dept. running thin cheap oil , in the inline 6 cylinder Toyota engines that had a variable viscosity chart ....

possibly if NO motor oil was in the engine , that will cause your pistons and other catastrophic internal engine failure to occur you have going on here ,,,


you have a much larger , and muti-topics at play here , to cause this damage .......

are we clear on this now ?

if your pistons look like this , your cylinder walls inside , must be VERY damaged also , Correct ?

post photos here inside each cylinder that has a damaged trashed piston please ....


thanks


matt

I'll PM you so as to no hijack this thread.

 

[Mark W]

Pretty sure you are all chasing the wrong problem here. That looks like classic detonation damage The busted rings and ring lands are the initial problem, the galling is a result of that. The reason for the busted rings/ring lands is detonation caused by overly advanced timing.

Mark...

 

[Dave L]

Pretty sure you are all chasing the wrong problem here. That looks like classic detonation damage The busted rings and ring lands are the initial problem, the galling is a result of that. The reason for the busted rings/ring lands is detonation caused by overly advanced timing.

Mark...

Hi Mark,

thanks for commenting

how do I adjust the timing to not have this happen again please?

PO did a desmog, I put a new carb on

 

[CruiserTrash]

Hi Mark,

thanks for commenting

how do I adjust the timing to not have this happen again please?

PO did a desmog, I put a new carb on

Get the motor warmed up and idling at normal RPM without the choke, loosen the clamp bolt on the distributor, aim a timing light at the flywheel window, twist the dizzy while you look for a round mark on the flywheel to appear in the middle of the window. FYI it may not idle normally until you reach the round mark. I'd readjust the carb using the "lean drop" method AFTER setting the correct idle timing.

It's all in the Factory Service Manual (FSM), which you should have (either paper or digital copy) before messing with anything on a 2F motor. Digital copy of the FSM is here: CLICK ME AND THEN CLICK "DOWNLOAD".