Cybertruck or 200 Series Land Cruiser?

[TeCKis300]

That is the demo of 85% of USDM 200 series owners... even with their 35s and dissent bumpers and ARB snorkels

Agree! I'm trying to assess the CT in its utility merits, where I think it does come short. It's in the suburban use cases where the CT really shines, destroying the mainstream trucks.

The steering and turning radius is beyond compare for. I guess that could be said about speed. And efficiency. And comfort. And blah blah...

 

[greynolds]

The infrastructure is improving significantly for brands who are now jumping onto the Tesla Supercharger network. GM, Ford and Rivian have all signed agreements.

But how good is the infrastructure outside of the major metropolitan areas? From what I have seen and heard, there's still a long way to go there, while you can stop and fill up a gas tank pretty much anywhere.

When I recently traded my LC200 in for a Highlander, I considered going with the hybrid option, but they seemed to be pretty much unobtainable at the time, so I'm still running completely on fossil fuel for now. I'd say there's a very close to 100% chance that my next vehicle will either be a hybrid or EV (or potentially some other non-fossil fuel option, depending on how things evolve).

 

[skrypj]

But how good is the infrastructure outside of the major metropolitan areas? From what I have seen and heard, there's still a long way to go there, while you can stop and fill up a gas tank pretty much anywhere.

When I recently traded my LC200 in for a Highlander, I considered going with the hybrid option, but they seemed to be pretty much unobtainable at the time, so I'm still running completely on fossil fuel for now. I'd say there's a very close to 100% chance that my next vehicle will either be a hybrid or EV (or potentially some other non-fossil fuel option, depending on how things evolve).

When I drove from Salt Lake City to San Diego 2 weeks ago we passed several very large Telsa charging depots out in the middle of nowhere. Probably 90% of the spots were open at each one. If you have a 300+ mile range, you are only stopping 2, maybe 3 times on a drive like that.

But that was on I-15. Im guessing once you get off the beaten track its not so easy. I know I went from Valley of Fire State Park to Cathedral Gorge state park in NV a month or two back and I barely passed a gas station, never mind an EV charger, in those 170 miles

 

[turbo8]

When I drove from Salt Lake City to San Diego 2 weeks ago we passed several very large Telsa charging depots out in the middle of nowhere. Probably 90% of the spots were open at each one. If you have a 300+ mile range, you are only stopping 2, maybe 3 times on a drive like that.

But that was on I-15. Im guessing once you get off the beaten track its not so easy. I know I went from Valley of Fire State Park to Cathedral Gorge state park in NV a month or two back and I barely passed a gas station, never mind an EV charger, in those 170 miles

There are a couple EV chargers between VoF and CG, depending on your route. I know there is one in Alamo.

 

[coleAK]

I have a hunch most of us have an EV (or whatever is next) in our future at some point; it's really a question of when, not if. The younger we are, the more likely we'll be driving something electric eventually.

To me, the 3 biggest issues with EV's at the moment are:
1. The time it takes to fully charge in the middle of a long (more than ~300 miles) drive. This has improved, but still has a long way to go before it realistically competes with a quick stop to fill up a gas tank.
2. The charging infrastructure. This will obviously sort itself out over time).
3. The cost to eventually replace the batteries and trade-in values (which I have a hunch are somewhat closely related)

I can drive Anchorage to Fairbanks and back ~800 miles round trip in about the same time in my Model 3 or LX570. I prefer making the drive in the Tesla.

We are at the point the only time charging takes much longer then getting gas is if you have to wait in a sizable line for a charging station.

 

[greynolds]

I can drive Anchorage to Fairbanks and back ~800 miles round trip in about the same time in my Model 3 or LX570. I prefer making the drive in the Tesla.

We are at the point the only time charging takes much longer then getting gas is if you have to wait in a sizable line for a charging station.

Are you saying you can charge your battery from 0% to 100% in about 5 minutes?

 

[coleAK]

Are you saying you can charge your battery from 0% to 100% in about 5 minutes?

I Don’t need to go 0 to 100%.

Overall I spend way less time charging then getting gas. Even on long trips.

Take the Fairbanks trip. I don’t remember the exact numbers but here was the trip. left my house with 100%. In the LX I would have had to stop and fill the tank before leaving Anchorage 5-10 min saved in the EV

First stop was 125 miles just over 2 hours at Denali brewing to get lunch. I arrived with ~60%. I got a pizza and an ice tea, walked back out to my car and had ~95%, charging stopped 5-10 min before I was done with my meal. Got right back on the road. In the LX I would have had to also stop at and get gas, ~1 mile away, that gas station is always very busy, 5-15 min saved in the EV

In the EV. Next stop Healy, 150 miles and 2.5 hrs later I arrived at 3 bears with ~50% plugged in, went inside used the restroom, got a coffee, got back to my car and had ~80%. In the LX I would have had to get gas which is in the same parking lot, 5 min saved in the EV

Drove the last 125 miles to Fairbanks. In Fairbanks I pulled into Eielson base plugged into 30a spent the night. Woke up and had 100%, went to my meetings on base and headed home. In the LX I would have had to get gas before leaving Fairbanks 5-10 min saved in the EV.

On the way back I was on a shorter timeline. I went the ~200 miles 4 hours to Cantwell, There isn’t much there. I arrived with 40-45% plugged in, walked across the street to the gas station. Used the restroom got a snack walked back to the car, I waited ~5 min and was at 90%. This stop was about the same time as it would have taken to get gas possibly ~0-5 min longer with the EV.

Last stop was willow 3 bears 3 hours later for a restroom and drink. I didn’t charge in the LX I wouldn’t have gotten gas either.

Last stop I arrived home with ~15% and plugged in. In the LX I would have had to get gas before going home. 5-10 min saved in the EV.

This 800 mile, 13-16 hour travel time trip I easily saved 30 min to an hour in the EV over putting gas in my LX.

I’ll admit Same trip 2 years ago without DC charging would have been brutal and I wouldn’t have done it in the EV, an extra 3-4 hours charging each way on 240 RV hookups. DC charging changed it completely.

 

[Adrenaline6]

I Don’t need to go 0 to 100%.

Overall I spend way less time charging then getting gas. Even on long trips.

Take the Fairbanks trip. I don’t remember the exact numbers but here was the trip. left my house with 100%. In the LX I would have had to stop and fill the tank before leaving Anchorage 5-10 min saved in the EV

First stop was 125 miles just over 2 hours at Denali brewing to get lunch. I arrived with ~60%. I got a pizza and an ice tea, walked back out to my car and had ~95%, charging stopped 5-10 min before I was done with my meal. Got right back on the road. In the LX I would have had to also stop at and get gas, ~1 mile away, that gas station is always very busy, 5-15 min saved in the EV

In the EV. Next stop Healy, 150 miles and 2.5 hrs later I arrived at 3 bears with ~50% plugged in, went inside used the restroom, got a coffee, got back to my car and had ~80%. In the LX I would have had to get gas which is in the same parking lot, 5 min saved in the EV

Drove the last 125 miles to Fairbanks. In Fairbanks I pulled into Eielson base plugged into 30a spent the night. Woke up and had 100%, went to my meetings on base and headed home. In the LX I would have had to get gas before leaving Fairbanks 5-10 min saved in the EV.

On the way back I was on a shorter timeline. I went the ~200 miles 4 hours to Cantwell, There isn’t much there. I arrived with 40-45% plugged in, walked across the street to the gas station. Used the restroom got a snack walked back to the car, I waited ~5 min and was at 90%. This stop was about the same time as it would have taken to get gas possibly ~0-5 min longer with the EV.

Last stop was willow 3 bears 3 hours later for a restroom and drink. I didn’t charge in the LX I wouldn’t have gotten gas either.

Last stop I arrived home with ~15% and plugged in. In the LX I would have had to get gas before going home. 5-10 min saved in the EV.

This 800 mile, 13-16 hour travel time trip I easily saved 30 min to an hour in the EV over putting gas in my LX.

I’ll admit Same trip 2 years ago without DC charging would have been brutal and I wouldn’t have done it in the EV, an extra 3-4 hours charging each way on 240 RV hookups. DC charging changed it completely.

I get that it works for you, and that is awesome, but the math and the actual processes looks a little off.

Healy stop: The process to park your car at the charging station and get it charging isn't 0 minutes.

Healy: Getting a coffee and drinking it while waiting for the charge to get to ~80% also not 0 minutes. You can fill up the 200 and drink your coffee on the go.

Still pretty much a wash in my opinion but your not saving anything to write home about either way you do it.

 

[coleAK]

I get that it works for you, and that is awesome, but the math and the actual processes looks a little off.

Healy stop: The process to park your car at the charging station and get it charging isn't 0 minutes.

Healy: Getting a coffee and drinking it while waiting for the charge to get to ~80% also not 0 minutes. You can fill up the 200 and drink your coffee on the go.

Still pretty much a wash in my opinion but your not saving anything to write home about either way you do it.

In the Tesla i park at 3 bears which is sort of like a cross between a Trader Joe’s and flying J. They have gas and DC charging on site. I plugged in in the parking lot, walked in use the restroom, get a coffee. Get back to my car unplug and drink my coffee while driving. What I was saying that if I was in the LX I would have had to stop at the pump, fill up, then park, then walk in and use the restroom and get coffee then go back to the LX and leave, no additional time spent to charge, no extra stop at the pump. That process would take at least 5 min longer then plug in and un plug. For reference On DC I get ~3% a min.

The mid-information that charging takes a ton of your time just isn’t true.

I’m saying is that as long as you can charge at home or work, driving an EV you spend exponentially less time charging throughout the year then you would getting gas even on some long trips.

Is it exactly the same as fueling/driving an ICE, no. But until you have owned one you can’t really understand how convenient charging is for the most part.

 

[TeCKis300]

I get that it works for you, and that is awesome, but the math and the actual processes looks a little off.

Healy stop: The process to park your car at the charging station and get it charging isn't 0 minutes.

Healy: Getting a coffee and drinking it while waiting for the charge to get to ~80% also not 0 minutes. You can fill up the 200 and drink your coffee on the go.

Still pretty much a wash in my opinion but your not saving anything to write home about either way you do it.

True. It's a different strategy with an EV to take care of other things in parallel to the car charging. Whereas the 5 minutes pumping gas is committed time that is short, but not long enough to break away and do something else.

People new to EVs focus on trips. The more satisfying reality is day to day use where taking an extra 15 minutes every week (or is that every 3 days in a cruiser?), to fill up just doesn't exist.

 

[Adrenaline6]

True. It's a different strategy with an EV to take care of other things in parallel to the car charging. Whereas the 5 minutes pumping gas is committed time that is short, but not long enough to break away and do something else.

People new to EVs focus on trips. The more satisfying reality is day to day use where taking an extra 15 minutes every week (or is that every 3 days in a cruiser?), to fill up just doesn't exist.

I get it and understand the change in the way you go about things to be more efficient with an EV. That is great, but it is also one thing you don't have to do with a 200 or any other ICE. That is worth something. Is it worth the bother? That's a question up to the individual.

Again, the time saving is inconsequential. The change in the way you go about things is a personal choice.

 

[BVE]

Would I trade my 2013 200 for a CT?
Almost definitely! Then I could sell it, buy my truck back and have some cash for gas

Seems though we are now having an EV vs ICE debate which does seem very specific to each users needs. I would love to have both and might replace my wife’s CRV with an Ioniq 5. Having solar on the house without an EV for ripping around SoCal seems like missed opportunity.

Yes to EVs in general, but I can only laugh at the cyber truck. Seems so gaudy and ridiculous with no real purpose. Tesla in general has never appealed to me because of the horrible build quality issues they haven’t resolved. They have the charging grid on lock down though, almost enough to buy one anyways. I fear having any other EV and needing to hunt down a random Walmart with a compatible charger while the Tesla station by the freeway has 50 open spots.

 

[coleAK]

Would I trade my 2013 200 for a CT?
Almost definitely! Then I could sell it, buy my truck back and have some cash for gas

Seems though we are now having an EV vs ICE debate which does seem very specific to each users needs. I would love to have both and might replace my wife’s CRV with an Ioniq 5. Having solar on the house without an EV for ripping around SoCal seems like missed opportunity.

Yes to EVs in general, but I can only laugh at the cyber truck. Seems so gaudy and ridiculous with no real purpose. Tesla in general has never appealed to me because of the horrible build quality issues they haven’t resolved. They have the charging grid on lock down though, almost enough to buy one anyways. I fear having any other EV and needing to hunt down a random Walmart with a compatible charger while the Tesla station by the freeway has 50 open spots.

Ford and Rivian can already use Tesla superchargers, GM, hundai/kia and Polestar should/could happen in the next year.

 

[skrypj]

I get that it works for you, and that is awesome, but the math and the actual processes looks a little off.

Healy stop: The process to park your car at the charging station and get it charging isn't 0 minutes.

Healy: Getting a coffee and drinking it while waiting for the charge to get to ~80% also not 0 minutes. You can fill up the 200 and drink your coffee on the go.

Still pretty much a wash in my opinion but your not saving anything to write home about either way you do it.

The point is you can walk away from the EV and do all the other stuff you need to do(buy coffee, take a dump, order a pizza, etc) while the car is charging. You are not really supposed to walk away from your car while its filling with gas.

Since you have to do all the other stuff anyways, having to fill the gas tank either before or after getting the coffee and taking a dump is time added.

 

[skrypj]

Ford and Rivian can already use Tesla superchargers, GM, hundai/kia and Polestar should/could happen in the next year.

My understanding was the GM happened or is happening in May. The Chevy Bolt forums are buzzing about which CCS1 to NACS adapter to buy.

 

[greynolds]

The point is you can walk away from the EV and do all the other stuff you need to do(buy coffee, take a dump, order a pizza, etc) while the car is charging. You are not really supposed to walk away from your car while its filling with gas.

Since you have to do all the other stuff anyways, having to fill the gas tank either before or after getting the coffee and taking a dump is time added.

I certainly get that aspect of it, but I almost always simply stop, get gas, and drive away, which takes about 5 minutes unless there's a line getting to the gas pumps. I often use the time while I'm waiting for the gas tank to fill up to clean the windshield since I'm not walking away from the car to do that.

If one can time stops to recharge the car so they're at a convenient time to have lunch or something else that will make use of the time the EV needs to charge, then that's great. But if one truly just needs to fill up the gas tank or battery and move on, fossil fuel wins for now. And yes, it may be all about adjusting to a new way of doing things and I would get used to it.

The truth is that an EV would probably be perfect for 90% of my driving these days as it's mostly the office commute (3 days a week) and relatively short trips where I would have more than enough range to get back home without stopping anywhere to charge. Those other cases where I would need to charge up somewhere during the day AND EV resale values that are stopping me from going with an EV. I guess that and the current options. I will not buy a Tesla. I really like what Rivian has to offer, but I'd like them to get better established before buying one. I would also need to have a way to figure out how many kwh the EV charger is using at home to fairly split the electric bill.

 

[skrypj]

Would I trade my 2013 200 for a CT?
Almost definitely! Then I could sell it, buy my truck back and have some cash for gas

Seems though we are now having an EV vs ICE debate which does seem very specific to each users needs. I would love to have both and might replace my wife’s CRV with an Ioniq 5. Having solar on the house without an EV for ripping around SoCal seems like missed opportunity.

Yes to EVs in general, but I can only laugh at the cyber truck. Seems so gaudy and ridiculous with no real purpose. Tesla in general has never appealed to me because of the horrible build quality issues they haven’t resolved. They have the charging grid on lock down though, almost enough to buy one anyways. I fear having any other EV and needing to hunt down a random Walmart with a compatible charger while the Tesla station by the freeway has 50 open spots.

I really wanna do solar, but at 12 cents/kwh here in UT, the payback period is exceedingly long. So im the opposite. Im driving an EV with no solar to charge it.

I've thought about just doing a dedicated 1500W solar setup and cheaper inverter just to charge the Bolt on a level 1 charger during the day. Even if I could do it for $1000, it would still take me over 2 years to make that back.

I certainly get that aspect of it, but I almost always simply stop, get gas, and drive away, which takes about 5 minutes unless there's a line getting to the gas pumps. I often use the time while I'm waiting for the gas tank to fill up to clean the windshield since I'm not walking away from the car to do that.

If one can time stops to recharge the car so they're at a convenient time to have lunch or something else that will make use of the time the EV needs to charge, then that's great. But if one truly just needs to fill up the gas tank or battery and move on, fossil fuel wins for now. And yes, it may be all about adjusting to a new way of doing things and I would get used to it.

The truth is that an EV would probably be perfect for 90% of my driving these days as it's mostly the office commute (3 days a week) and relatively short trips where I would have more than enough range to get back home without stopping anywhere to charge. Those other cases where I would need to charge up somewhere during the day AND EV resale values that are stopping me from going with an EV. I guess that and the current options. I will not buy a Tesla. I really like what Rivian has to offer, but I'd like them to get better established before buying one. I would also need to have a way to figure out how many kwh the EV charger is using at home to fairly split the electric bill.

Agree'd. I guess from my perspective, with two young kids, my gas stops usually are not that short anyways.

The resale value thing is exactly why I bought a used Chevy bolt and not a Tesla or other EV. I paid $17000 for a 2018 with 20k miles and brand new battery from the recall. An equivalent year and mile ICE car is going to be in that same ballpark. Even if it was only worth $5000 in 5 years, which I doubt, I still have saved a massive amount of money compared to an ICE. I could almost consider it disposable and still come out ahead, no ICE car could have made that math work. From a pure monetary standpoint, its hard to argue with the value of a used Bolt or Leaf.

 

[Adrenaline6]

The point is you can walk away from the EV and do all the other stuff you need to do(buy coffee, take a dump, order a pizza, etc) while the car is charging. You are not really supposed to walk away from your car while its filling with gas.

Since you have to do all the other stuff anyways, having to fill the gas tank either before or after getting the coffee and taking a dump is time added.

Sure. I will give you that. The other problem I see is that this trip is optimized for your Tesla. 125 to 150 miles hops and recharging while getting snacks/bathroom, etc.. You wouldn't need to do that in an LC/LX. Try reversing this thought process and optimizing the fueling for the LC/LX and apply that to the Tesla. I bet things are totally different.

Also, I would bet comparing the 2 optimized times against each other would be also different then your first scenario.

 

[coleAK]

I certainly get that aspect of it, but I almost always simply stop, get gas, and drive away, which takes about 5 minutes unless there's a line getting to the gas pumps. I often use the time while I'm waiting for the gas tank to fill up to clean the windshield since I'm not walking away from the car to do that.

If one can time stops to recharge the car so they're at a convenient time to have lunch or something else that will make use of the time the EV needs to charge, then that's great. But if one truly just needs to fill up the gas tank or battery and move on, fossil fuel wins for now. And yes, it may be all about adjusting to a new way of doing things and I would get used to it.

The truth is that an EV would probably be perfect for 90% of my driving these days as it's mostly the office commute (3 days a week) and relatively short trips where I would have more than enough range to get back home without stopping anywhere to charge. Those other cases where I would need to charge up somewhere during the day AND EV resale values that are stopping me from going with an EV. I guess that and the current options. I will not buy a Tesla. I really like what Rivian has to offer, but I'd like them to get better established before buying one. I would also need to have a way to figure out how many kwh the EV charger is using at home to fairly split the electric bill.

The charging at home to split the bill Is easy. This is From my Tesla app. It is calculating the cost based on the “average cost per kWh in the “region”. It is $0.04 higher then I pay per kWh and it does not take into consideration my solar.

you can easily see kWh that the car pulls broken down by day, month and year.

 

[Valgrind]

Not sure about that. Everyone I know that has swapped an EV in the first 2-3 years has done it for another EV.

I find my EVs to be much more convenient to own and drive than my gas cars. I have gotten to where I hate wasting the time it takes to put gas in my LX.

I did some math the other day and if I drove my LX570 all the miles I put on my model 3 in the last 6 years it would have cost me >$30k more, $45k more if I didn’t do my own service to drive the LX.

It is certainly the certainly the case for most EV flips. Maybe it's just better in your area, and it could be the people you know, but there are virtually no real charging stations near me and if you can't charge at home then that's a huge issue. Road trips in florida are also extremely hard with electric due to the lack of chargers.