- Thread starter
- #101
Double posted
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Crank but No Start (Solved) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Phallen
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #102
So just catching up with your issue. For sure the wire coming down to oil sending unit and crank sensor (sensors), will need repair if damaged. I see you've good amount of rust. So very likely a section of wire, has had water/moisture entry under sheathing at break. So likely corridor inside wire sheathing, which increases resistance.
Whether doing yourself or having done, knowledge can help get done right.
It is possible to disconnected wires from sensors pull wires back up to the top of engine. If wires routed wrong, i.e in front of fan bracket. It's then very easy to pulls wire to top of engine. Once wire pulled to top, break from rub can easily be spliced. I'd take out a section of wire, and inspect inside wire sheathing. Cut out until only clean wires found. Use same gauge wires for repair.
If wire routed properly it's difficult to pull up, but can be done. Easiest if fan bracket removed for easy access and rerouting properly behind bracket. Can be done without remove fan bracket, but PITA unless wire block housing removed from ends. Even then a PITA.
Personally when I find wires routed wrong. I like to redo timing belt job. In fact just did this on one of my rigs. Found may issue with time belt job, so glade I did. But for me timing belt job is easy, even fun.
I learned about these solider/water seal/shrink wrap butt splices from mud, some years ago. Been using ever since. They're great and very easy to use.
Whether doing yourself or having done, knowledge can help get done right.
It is possible to disconnected wires from sensors pull wires back up to the top of engine. If wires routed wrong, i.e in front of fan bracket. It's then very easy to pulls wire to top of engine. Once wire pulled to top, break from rub can easily be spliced. I'd take out a section of wire, and inspect inside wire sheathing. Cut out until only clean wires found. Use same gauge wires for repair.
If wire routed properly it's difficult to pull up, but can be done. Easiest if fan bracket removed for easy access and rerouting properly behind bracket. Can be done without remove fan bracket, but PITA unless wire block housing removed from ends. Even then a PITA.
Personally when I find wires routed wrong. I like to redo timing belt job. In fact just did this on one of my rigs. Found may issue with time belt job, so glade I did. But for me timing belt job is easy, even fun.
I learned about these solider/water seal/shrink wrap butt splices from mud, some years ago. Been using ever since. They're great and very easy to use.
- Thread starter
- #104
UPDATE
Last night, I picked up Gracie from the local Toyota dealership. They fixed the wire leading to the oil pressure sender and inspected the wire leading to the Crank Shaft Position Sensor, which they found to be okay. I took the LC for a spin and everything appeared fine. After about thirty minutes after getting home, I had to run an errand. When I turned the key in Gracie, she would crank but not start. Nothing has changed.
The new fuel pump and filter came in. I should have it installed by Friday.
Last night, I picked up Gracie from the local Toyota dealership. They fixed the wire leading to the oil pressure sender and inspected the wire leading to the Crank Shaft Position Sensor, which they found to be okay. I took the LC for a spin and everything appeared fine. After about thirty minutes after getting home, I had to run an errand. When I turned the key in Gracie, she would crank but not start. Nothing has changed.
The new fuel pump and filter came in. I should have it installed by Friday.
You again, tried shifting to "N" and got crank no start.
- Thread starter
- #106
I didn’t try it this last time but I have done it on previous “crank, no starts”
- Thread starter
- #108
They charged for two hours of labor. I honestly don’t know them so it is hard to say if I trust them.
- Thread starter
- #110
@jerryb or anyone by chance have the part number for the crankshaft position sensor wiring harness? A family friend, who owns a mechanic shop, is going to replace it along with the cam shaft position sensor and wire. Id just like to have the parts in hand Prior to the work being done. I checked on McGeorge Toyota online parts along with Google, and I am unable to find the part number.
- Thread starter
- #112
Update:
I’ve replaced the fuel pump for the second time with a Denso pump and for the first time the fuel filter. I also had a good friend of the family, who is a mechanic, trace the wires for the crank shaft position sensor and everything appeared normal.
I’m still having the ”crank and no start” issue every blue moon. Last night, I drove Gracie for 15 minutes to the local running track with no issues. An hour later and while driving back home, the “VSF OFF” light and the center diff lock light turned on by themselves. This has never happened before so I pulled over, turned Gracie all the way off, waited a few seconds, and attempted to turn her back on. The “crank but no start” issue reared it’s ugly head. So I did what I usually do; take the key out of the ignition, use the key fob to lock up, and wait ten minutes. After the wait, Gracie started and the ”VSF OFF” light and center diff lock light were off. Very weird.
Today, my wife drove Gracie to a school function. Afterwards, Gracie wouldn’t start but my wife did the usual SOP for Gracie and after waiting ten minutes, Gracie started up. My wife then drove to a local store close by. While attempting to leave the store, Gracie pulled the same move “crank but no start.” Only this time, she wouldn’t start even after waiting 30 minutes, which is unusual. Her brother met her and jumped Gracie On the first try.
Not to sound like a n00b below but it’s just my thought process regarding my issue. I’d like to apologize in advance if I get a few terms mixed up.
As I understand it, when a car initially starts, it requires a large but quick surge of power from the battery. Once the car is running, the alternator takes over the demand to run the electrical system(s) and recharge the battery. I understand there is always a slight draw on the battery when the car is off. Last year, I checked for parasitic draw and couldn’t find any. I also replaced the battery that same year.
During the colder months of the year, I do not experience the “crank but not start” issue.
Awhile back, I remember reading a post on the forums that someone’s LC wouldn’t start if the battery couldn’t supply 13.?? volts (IF I READ and REMEMBER THE POST CORRECTLY).
Is it possible, after running Gracie, the engine bay heat gets to a specific temperature that lowers the output of the battery just enough for Gracie not to start? Could the alternator be slowly failing and not be fully charging the battery?
I’m just spit balling a few ideas. One thing Gracie never fails at doing Is starting after a few hours of down time (cool off period) or in the cooler months of the year, Based on everything so far, I’m starting to lean more towards a power issue but I could definitely be wrong,
Any input is greatly appreciated.
EDIT
I should also make note, Gracie hasn’t thrown a code during this update.
I’ve replaced the fuel pump for the second time with a Denso pump and for the first time the fuel filter. I also had a good friend of the family, who is a mechanic, trace the wires for the crank shaft position sensor and everything appeared normal.
I’m still having the ”crank and no start” issue every blue moon. Last night, I drove Gracie for 15 minutes to the local running track with no issues. An hour later and while driving back home, the “VSF OFF” light and the center diff lock light turned on by themselves. This has never happened before so I pulled over, turned Gracie all the way off, waited a few seconds, and attempted to turn her back on. The “crank but no start” issue reared it’s ugly head. So I did what I usually do; take the key out of the ignition, use the key fob to lock up, and wait ten minutes. After the wait, Gracie started and the ”VSF OFF” light and center diff lock light were off. Very weird.
Today, my wife drove Gracie to a school function. Afterwards, Gracie wouldn’t start but my wife did the usual SOP for Gracie and after waiting ten minutes, Gracie started up. My wife then drove to a local store close by. While attempting to leave the store, Gracie pulled the same move “crank but no start.” Only this time, she wouldn’t start even after waiting 30 minutes, which is unusual. Her brother met her and jumped Gracie On the first try.
Not to sound like a n00b below but it’s just my thought process regarding my issue. I’d like to apologize in advance if I get a few terms mixed up.
As I understand it, when a car initially starts, it requires a large but quick surge of power from the battery. Once the car is running, the alternator takes over the demand to run the electrical system(s) and recharge the battery. I understand there is always a slight draw on the battery when the car is off. Last year, I checked for parasitic draw and couldn’t find any. I also replaced the battery that same year.
During the colder months of the year, I do not experience the “crank but not start” issue.
Awhile back, I remember reading a post on the forums that someone’s LC wouldn’t start if the battery couldn’t supply 13.?? volts (IF I READ and REMEMBER THE POST CORRECTLY).
Is it possible, after running Gracie, the engine bay heat gets to a specific temperature that lowers the output of the battery just enough for Gracie not to start? Could the alternator be slowly failing and not be fully charging the battery?
I’m just spit balling a few ideas. One thing Gracie never fails at doing Is starting after a few hours of down time (cool off period) or in the cooler months of the year, Based on everything so far, I’m starting to lean more towards a power issue but I could definitely be wrong,
Any input is greatly appreciated.
EDIT
I should also make note, Gracie hasn’t thrown a code during this update.
ramangain
Clarksonian disciple
Carry around a jump pack. If the rig starts EVERY TIME regardless of weather or driving conditions on a jump pack, I'd suspect a battery/alternator/(battery post connection) issue
- Thread starter
- #114
I got an update from my mechanic last night. He replaced the Crankshaft sensor, which has been replaced twice, and drove Gracie around for over an hour without any problems. He turned her off and started her back up with zero issues. It appears this has been solved. Who would have thought Toyota sold me two bad sensors. I‘ll keep this thread updated and let you know how it turns out for the rest of the week.
- Thread starter
- #115
Soon after the last post, Gracie had the “crank, no start” issue while it was still at the mechanic’s shop.
The mechanic came across a service bulletin that advised to change the Camshaft position sensor if still experiencing the problem after replacing the crankshaft position sensor.
He kept the truck for a month and worked on it when he could. I told him to keep it till 2022 After replacing the camshaft position sensor, he drove it around 100 miles, no issues. He charged me $435, which I believe is a great price.
I’ve put on about 500 miles since December and no issues what’s so ever.
I believe it’s finally solved.
The mechanic came across a service bulletin that advised to change the Camshaft position sensor if still experiencing the problem after replacing the crankshaft position sensor.
He kept the truck for a month and worked on it when he could. I told him to keep it till 2022 After replacing the camshaft position sensor, he drove it around 100 miles, no issues. He charged me $435, which I believe is a great price.
I’ve put on about 500 miles since December and no issues what’s so ever.
I believe it’s finally solved.
- Thread starter
- #116
Crank, no start is NOT solved. We are experiencing the same issue all over again. About two (2) weeks ago, we had our first hot day of the year, which was roughly 85 degrees. When my wife got in the LC and turned the key, the engine would crank but not start. The LC also threw the P0335 code. Afterwards, She made several attempts to start the LC but had the same result; crank, no start. On her own, she attached a jump pack to the battery, turned the key, and the LC started. My wife was able to drive it to our mechanic friend, where it sits. We really haven’t had any more 85 degree days so the mechanic could not replicate the problem. But with summer coming, this is going to be a problem.
During the fall, winter, and most of spring, we’ve had sub 60 degree weather and Gracie ran great. But now that its getting warmer, she is back to her old ways. This old bird loves the cold.
I believe the next step would be to check the wiring, unless someone has any other ideas. I’ll definitely keep this post updated with Gracie’s progress.
During the fall, winter, and most of spring, we’ve had sub 60 degree weather and Gracie ran great. But now that its getting warmer, she is back to her old ways. This old bird loves the cold.
I believe the next step would be to check the wiring, unless someone has any other ideas. I’ll definitely keep this post updated with Gracie’s progress.
Interesting. As the P0335 is Camshaft position sensor. Which I understood you had replaced. I'd check it and the wires again.
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- Thread starter
- #118
Update
My mechanic threw in the towel. He does not feel confident he can find the electrical issue so it looks like I‘ll be talking the problem the following weekend. In preparation, I reviewed a lot of the posts just to get a better snap shot of what needs to be done. Per @2001LC, I’ll remove the fan bracket to make life easier. I watched a pretty good video on this by LandCruiserDIY on YouTube ().
While combing through the posts, @2001LC mentioned in post#103 to retrace the crankshaft position sensor & oil sending unit wires to ensure they are routed properly and that if they are not the drive belt could cut into them to include the cam sensor and AC wires. I should point out my AC stopped working the beginning of the last summer. Everything is pointing to a wiring issue.
I’ll keep everyone posted.
My mechanic threw in the towel. He does not feel confident he can find the electrical issue so it looks like I‘ll be talking the problem the following weekend. In preparation, I reviewed a lot of the posts just to get a better snap shot of what needs to be done. Per @2001LC, I’ll remove the fan bracket to make life easier. I watched a pretty good video on this by LandCruiserDIY on YouTube ().
While combing through the posts, @2001LC mentioned in post#103 to retrace the crankshaft position sensor & oil sending unit wires to ensure they are routed properly and that if they are not the drive belt could cut into them to include the cam sensor and AC wires. I should point out my AC stopped working the beginning of the last summer. Everything is pointing to a wiring issue.
I’ll keep everyone posted.
- Thread starter
- #119
Update
I ordered the Denso Camshaft Wiring Harness. It should be here on Thursday, just in time for this weekend‘s amateur auto repair. Today, I looked around the engine bay, getting familiar with everything that needs to be done for this Saturday. One thing I did notice was the camshaft wiring harness had blue wires like the Denso I just ordered (see photo). Is the OEM the same color or does it look like it was replaced by the PO?
Also, while I was looking at the crank shaft position sensor, I noticed a black sludge on the piece next to the alternator (see photo). Any idea what that piece is or where the oily sludge is coming from?
I appreciate the help so far.
I ordered the Denso Camshaft Wiring Harness. It should be here on Thursday, just in time for this weekend‘s amateur auto repair. Today, I looked around the engine bay, getting familiar with everything that needs to be done for this Saturday. One thing I did notice was the camshaft wiring harness had blue wires like the Denso I just ordered (see photo). Is the OEM the same color or does it look like it was replaced by the PO?
Also, while I was looking at the crank shaft position sensor, I noticed a black sludge on the piece next to the alternator (see photo). Any idea what that piece is or where the oily sludge is coming from?
I appreciate the help so far.
- Thread starter
- #120
Update 06.11.2022
Today, I started working on Gracie to inspect the wiring for the Crankshaft position sensor and the Camshaft position sensor. I started by draining the coolant and removing the fan shroud and fan/fluid coupling assembly, which took far longer then I expected. Once I removed the four bolts from the pulley and the fan/fluid coupling assembly, I figured I was on easy street. I quickly found out the clutch was stuck to the pulley and no amount of pulling would set it free. A quick search on the forums led me to a post titled “HELP! Fan pulley and fan stuck on fan bracket” (HELP! Fan pulley and fan stuck on fan bracket - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-fan-pulley-and-fan-stuck-on-fan-bracket.1139803/). Per 2001LC’s instructions in that post, I went out and purchased a brass punch set, chisel set, and a pry bar. After a few hours of light tapping with a brass punch on the clutch and soaking with PB Blaster, it eventually gave a little bit. I then used a chisel and worked it around the area where the pulley met the fan until I had enough space for the pry bar. At this point, it took a a few minutes to walk the fan off of the pulley with the pry bar. @2001LC Thanks for the tips in the fan pulley post.
After getting the fan shroud and fan out, I had a ton of space to work with. I removed the No. 3 Timing Belt Cover and replaced the camshaft position sensor (AGAIN). When I reinstalled the sensor, I used a torque wrench set at 65 flbs on the longer bolt (see below photo) and snapped it. I soon discovered my tongue wrench was bad. Thankfully, I was able to easily remove the sheered bolt. I ordered the bolt from McGeorge Toyota‘s website so hopefully it will be here by Thursday.
I visually inspected the wiring as best as I could. None of the wires appear to be cut or frayed. I’ll take a better look tomorrow with fresh eyes. Since I couldn’t move forward with the sensor and I was still motivated, I removed the heater t’s and hoses, which I will replace tomorrow. I also cleaned the battery terminals and posts with a wire brush and used white dielectric grease on them.
Since I have the shroud and fan out, can anyone think of any type of checks or preventive maintenance I could/should do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The below photo is the mess I created.
Today, I started working on Gracie to inspect the wiring for the Crankshaft position sensor and the Camshaft position sensor. I started by draining the coolant and removing the fan shroud and fan/fluid coupling assembly, which took far longer then I expected. Once I removed the four bolts from the pulley and the fan/fluid coupling assembly, I figured I was on easy street. I quickly found out the clutch was stuck to the pulley and no amount of pulling would set it free. A quick search on the forums led me to a post titled “HELP! Fan pulley and fan stuck on fan bracket” (HELP! Fan pulley and fan stuck on fan bracket - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-fan-pulley-and-fan-stuck-on-fan-bracket.1139803/). Per 2001LC’s instructions in that post, I went out and purchased a brass punch set, chisel set, and a pry bar. After a few hours of light tapping with a brass punch on the clutch and soaking with PB Blaster, it eventually gave a little bit. I then used a chisel and worked it around the area where the pulley met the fan until I had enough space for the pry bar. At this point, it took a a few minutes to walk the fan off of the pulley with the pry bar. @2001LC Thanks for the tips in the fan pulley post.
After getting the fan shroud and fan out, I had a ton of space to work with. I removed the No. 3 Timing Belt Cover and replaced the camshaft position sensor (AGAIN). When I reinstalled the sensor, I used a torque wrench set at 65 flbs on the longer bolt (see below photo) and snapped it. I soon discovered my tongue wrench was bad. Thankfully, I was able to easily remove the sheered bolt. I ordered the bolt from McGeorge Toyota‘s website so hopefully it will be here by Thursday.
I visually inspected the wiring as best as I could. None of the wires appear to be cut or frayed. I’ll take a better look tomorrow with fresh eyes. Since I couldn’t move forward with the sensor and I was still motivated, I removed the heater t’s and hoses, which I will replace tomorrow. I also cleaned the battery terminals and posts with a wire brush and used white dielectric grease on them.
Since I have the shroud and fan out, can anyone think of any type of checks or preventive maintenance I could/should do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The below photo is the mess I created.
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