If all your gauges work I am very jealous
Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter bj40green
- Start date
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If all your gauges work I am very jealous
all work wonderfully. at this time, the only thing not working is the horn...that's on the short list of stuff to tackle.
Presumably your horn is like mine, a push button on the dash. I get a kick out of the extensive technical information in the FSM for "tuning" the horn
Rudi, dumb question time. Would I find a similar "stack" in one of the other gauges? And is it out of the question to re-wire the stack and save the gauge? I'm thinking to determine the gauge and then measure the total length once removed.
I guess I needed more than luck. It was raining this afternoon so I tackled the fuel gauge issue. The "donor" gauges were from the original gauge cluster. Both checked 45.7 ohms, however, one of them had discolored wire and the other was pristine white so I chose it. I carefully unwound the wire making sure not to put any kinks in it. I checked it to be 45.7 ohms when removed. I then snipped off about six inches and it check in the thirties so I snipped another 1 1/2" and it checked 24.8. So I soldered one end and started wrapping around the plate. The problem is that you can't pull it tight and continue threading the wire around. I'm sure when they are made it is wound and then riveted in place. Regardless, when I was done it only checked 17.7 ohms and while the light flashes (VR is good) no movement in the gauge. Oh well, I tried anyway.
Rudi, I stumbled across another post somewhere in which you indicated the correct ohm readings for the fuel tank sending unit. The figures for the third generation sender matched what I tested on mine. Are you aware that the sending unit is a direct replacement to the second generation tank? Is there any difference for the water temperature and oil pressure sending units? Is there a way to test them to know whether they are operational and or correct in reading? Thank you.
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #289
Hi Lenny,
The difference between a 3rd and a 2nd generation FUEL sender is the resistance.
It fits, but that's it. Have look at this chart. I'v posted this before.
The OIL sender is the same for all the years. The TEMP sender is totally different. Up to now nobody came forward with the ohm value of a 2nd gen TEMP sender so I don't have that value (yet).
Rudi
The difference between a 3rd and a 2nd generation FUEL sender is the resistance.
It fits, but that's it. Have look at this chart. I'v posted this before.
The OIL sender is the same for all the years. The TEMP sender is totally different. Up to now nobody came forward with the ohm value of a 2nd gen TEMP sender so I don't have that value (yet).
Rudi
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bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #290
Let me think .....
If you think this is true and you use a 2nd gen, FUEL sender with your 3rd gen. cluster, the FUEL gauge will peg in the right corner due to the low ohms of the (wrong) sender. After 5 minutes your gauge is toast.I hope you didn't do this.
Rudi
I hope you didn't do this.
Rudi
which tank are you calling second generation? I can give you guys some insight as to my experiences using a 79+ sender with a 77 guage.
Needle moves freely if you press on the bi-metal plate that I was wrapping around. Now back to the sending unit. Per your picture/data, the 2nd generation fuel sender would check 2.1/6.5 ohms where the 3rd generation unit would check 17/120. Mine checks 4.3/124 and is smooth throughout range of motion and so I think that should be okay. Of course your description matches exactly with what happened in the rig in that fuel pegged to the right/full and stayed there. I wasn't sure about the reading as I knew the fuel tank had been filled just prior to taking it to the shop where it sat for six months and would have had very little running time, tune up type of stuff. So I had focused on the oil and water which were lazily moving right and then would slowly return to zero with the engine off. I think the safest bet is to secure all new senders and then thoroughly investigate/decipher this wiring before hooking them up. In the meantime I will use the calculated method of fuel consumption since my speedometer/odometer work. I need to get this thing registered as it is pushing seven months since purchase. But I am making progress, both doors are now rebuilt. Except for the hinges, those pins sound like a hammer hitting an anvil and they ain't budging.
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #294
It's all in the chart that I posted twice.
6903 - 7209 = 2nd generation
7209 - 7901 = 3rd generation
7901 - later = 4th generation
The only difference between a 77 sender and a 79+ sender is that the 79+ has a male spade ground terminal.
On a 72 - 79 sender you have to put the ring terminal under one of the mounting screws.
Rudi
I note that CoolCruisers is offering a 72-78 fuel sending unit BUT they list it as 2.1 to 6.5 ohm which is contrary to your data, and the readings I'm getting from my unit which are much closer to your figures for the third generation sending unit. I'm going to call Toyota Overstock tomorrow. I have put a new fuel gauge and all three sending units in a cart and want to verify that all parts are in stock before placing the order.
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #296
You're not the first one who noticed this.
The numbers in my thread (and chart) are from the TOYOTA FSM (Factory Service Manual). The numbers for the 3rd (and 4th) generation FUEL senders match with my 1978 BJ40 FUEL sender.
You'll also notice that they don't give the numbers for the other sending units.
Their info is not complete/incorrect.
Rudi
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Rudi I certainly have more faith and trust in your knowledge and numbers than the folks that are just selling the products. Nothing against them, they aren't technical people. A certain product is available for the vent window weatherstripping that is not Toyota. The left side fits like socks on a rooster and the right side is excellent, go figure. It isn't the fault of the vendor but rather the design and fabrication of the molds. I called Toyota overstock and they can supply senders but the fuel gauge and the complete meter assembly are of course not available.
GUGISMAN
"Bury me in my FJ40..."
Rudi: On post #9 it shows 2nd gen fuel gauge ohms 6.5 E & 2.1 F. Is it possible that these are the tolerances at the top/bottom like in illustration 12-57, 12-58 in post #7, and that the actual ohms are 120 & 17?
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #299
Hi Gugisman,
In post #7 page 11-5 with figure 11-9 is for the 2nd gen. clusters with sender 83320-35020 6.5 - 2.1 ohm.
In that same post #7 page 12-27 with figures 12-57 and 12-58 are for the 3rd gen. clusters with sender 83320-60050 120 - 17 ohm.
Thanks to the Windows function "copy and paste" once the wrong info is published it appears everywhere on the Internet because people don't check what they publish.
Long story short.....
If you have a pre Sept. '72 cluster (with the turn indicators in the dash) you need the sender #83320-35020 Empty:6.5Ω Full 2.1Ω
If you have a Oct. '72 - '78 cluster (with the turn indicators in the speedo face plate) you need the sender 83320-60050 Empty: 120Ω Full 17Ω
If you have a Jan. '79 and later cluster you need the sender 83320-60051. Same ohms but a longer float arm because from this date the fuel tank changed in shape and location.
Rudi
In post #7 page 11-5 with figure 11-9 is for the 2nd gen. clusters with sender 83320-35020 6.5 - 2.1 ohm.
In that same post #7 page 12-27 with figures 12-57 and 12-58 are for the 3rd gen. clusters with sender 83320-60050 120 - 17 ohm.
Thanks to the Windows function "copy and paste" once the wrong info is published it appears everywhere on the Internet because people don't check what they publish.
Long story short.....
If you have a pre Sept. '72 cluster (with the turn indicators in the dash) you need the sender #83320-35020 Empty:6.5Ω Full 2.1Ω
If you have a Oct. '72 - '78 cluster (with the turn indicators in the speedo face plate) you need the sender 83320-60050 Empty: 120Ω Full 17Ω
If you have a Jan. '79 and later cluster you need the sender 83320-60051. Same ohms but a longer float arm because from this date the fuel tank changed in shape and location.
Rudi
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GUGISMAN
"Bury me in my FJ40..."
Thanks for your detailed answer (and for the great research and helpful information). I was convinced that since the 2nd gen ohms matched what are the tolerances for later ones that there might be a mistake. Wishful thinking apparently...
Im going through these gyrations because I need to make sure my centroid sender for an after-market aux fuel tank (both from marksoffroad.com) matches my 2nd gen fuel meter in my 03/69 fj40.
Im going through these gyrations because I need to make sure my centroid sender for an after-market aux fuel tank (both from marksoffroad.com) matches my 2nd gen fuel meter in my 03/69 fj40.
