Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (1 Viewer)

[watrob]

So you have a cluster with a 50-0-50 Ammeter, with a 3 prong connector on the back side, right?
That makes it a 4th generation ('79 and later) cluster.
As you can read earlier in this thread..... it didn't work from factory
See page #4 post #75 where it all started. There is a design error in this circuit.
But............... there is a solution
If you go to the top of this page post #301 you'll find that "Amaurer" found the solution to fix this problem.

Rudi

Yes I saw that, but where actually are you placing that coiled wire fix for it to work?

 

[watrob]

I'm guessing that if you changed the cluster and still no amp reading then you have a stunt. A stunt is a resister in your amp meter that only take a portion of your amps from the main cable from the battery. This allows a smaller wire to go to the amp meter and it allows your car to function if the amp meter burns out.
The 2 wires on the amp meter should voltage all the time. I don't have your schematic but most cars are wired the same. I'll bet neither leg has voltage. That means the wire from the main 12v wire from the battery to the amp meter is disconnected or broken. Now where that wire is, I haven't a clue.
But my first check would be to check the voltage on the amp meter. It should be 12v.


1971 FJ40
1952 VW Split Bug
1997 Jaguar XK8

Is this stunt "resister" actually built into the amp meter itself in the cluster?

 

[chappohj47]

Mate just put a battery bolt meter on don't worry about the amp meter and they do have fuses to glass inline fuses just inside the engine bay near fire wall in a plastic case probably has tape around it

 

[bj40green]

Yes I saw that, but where actually are you placing that coiled wire fix for it to work?

Is this stunt "resister" actually built into the amp meter itself in the cluster?

In the '79 and later Cruisers the Fusible link is used as a shunt.
So there is no shunt. The Fusible Link is the shunt.

You can see it in the 2nd picture in post #301.
The Fusible link is cut-out and the new "coil" is inserted.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

In the '79 and later Cruisers the Fusible link is used as a shunt.
So there is no shunt. The Fusible Link is the shunt.
View attachment 871692

You can see it in the 2nd picture in post #301.
The Fusible link is cut-out and the new "coil" is inserted.

Rudi

Ok, the bottom photo in #301 shows 2 green plugs with 2 wires going between them with extra pieces of short braided material cover part of each of these 2 wires...... then there is another wire still intact and the 4th wire which is cut where the new coil of wire has been attached to. Are the wires without the extra braid the fusible link wires? and if so why is only one of the wires cut and not both?

Or is it that the amp meter only uses one fusible wire and the other is for something else?

 

[bj40green]

I can't answer your questions from here. Why....? I have a '78 BJ40 with a 30-0-30 Ammeter which is totally different from what we're talking about here.
From your signature line is not clear what cluster and wiring you have so I can't give you any advice on this. You have to look under the hood what you have and you also need a schematic diagram.
The diagram that I posted is for explaining purposes.
The Ammeter measures the voltage drop over the fusible link. The two 5Amp fuses are for protection in case the Fusible Link blows. In that case the FULL current would go through the Ammeter and that's not a good thing.
Here are some pics of fusible links used in BJ, FJ and HJ cruisers.
They have 2 wires in common: white/blue and black go to the fuses and Ammeter.

Single FL with broken white/blue wire

Triple FL

Double FL

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Ok, I am pretty sure I have the green plug version, so I need to check the fusible link wire that is common to the white/blue stripe wire and the black wire plug?

 

[bj40green]

Yes, the wire(s) with the extra protective tube are the fusible link(s).

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Yes, the wire(s) with the extra protective tube are the fusible link(s).

Rudi

Ok, I am up at the beach house this weekend and I will check that wire to see if its burnt out. Do we know yet what size wire it can be replaced with..........is 14 gauge?

 

[bj40green]

I think you're mixing two things up.
1. Your fusible link is OK because your truck is running.
2. The (almost) non working Ammeter is the result of a bad designed Fusible Link.

To get the Ammeter working you have to do the modification with the "coil" as described in posting #301 by Amaurer. That "coil" is the replacement for the OEM Fusible Link.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I think you're mixing two things up.
1. Your fusible link is OK because your truck is running.
2. The (almost) non working Ammeter is the result of a bad designed Fusible Link.

To get the Ammeter working you have to do the modification with the "coil" as described in posting #301 by Amaurer. That "coil" is the replacement for the OEM Fusible Link.

Rudi

I thought that one of these 3 fusible links (ones with the green connectors in the photo above) was solely for the amp meter?
I understood it that the plug with the white/blue strip wire & the back wire is the connection to the amp meter alone?


So if this fusible link was burnt out would it not just effect the amp meter only as the other 2 remaining fusible links run other systems in the vehicle?


Is this not correct otherwise how would cutting a fusible link and putting a 18" coil in place work if that fusible link was not directly connected to the amp meter?


I understand that there is a fault in the amp meter circuit which stops the amp meter from working properly but the fix has to be put on the right fusible link?


If this one fusible link out of the 3 is blown which is directly used for the amp meter your telling me the whole vehicle would stop, in that case why have 3 fusible links? Would not this be the case in the photos which show a 1 fusible link connector and the second a 2 wire fusible link connector? I thought the 3 wire fusible that 1 link was used solely for the amp meter for the 1:50 amp gauge on the later model?

So at the end of the day, which one out of the 3 fusible links do I cut to put the coil in place putting aside whether or not one or any of the links is burnt out? and I want to use fusible link wire so what gauge do I need?

 

[bj40green]

My answers in red in your text:

I thought that one of these 3 fusible links (ones with the green connectors in the photo above) was solely for the amp meter? NO. One of the three is the fusible link between the battery and the alternator and is ALSO used as a shunt resistor for the Ammeter.
I understood it that the plug with the white/blue strip wire & the back wire is the connection to the amp meter alone?YES


So if this fusible link was burnt out would it not just effect the amp meter only as the other 2 remaining fusible links run other systems in the vehicle?
Every fusible link protects a part of the harness.


Is this not correct otherwise how would cutting a fusible link and putting a 18" coil in place work if that fusible link was not directly connected to the amp meter? Mr. Toyota decided in all his wisdom to use the fusible link from battery to alternator to use as a shunt resistor for the Ammeter. Unfortunately that didn't work out. That little piece of wire had not enough resistance to create enough voltage drop for a good functioning Ammeter. That's why you see only a little movement of the needle when you use your hazard lights.


I understand that there is a fault in the amp meter circuit which stops the amp meter from working properly but the fix has to be put on the right fusible link?YES


If this one fusible link out of the 3 is blown which is directly used for the amp meter your telling me the whole vehicle would stop, in that case why have 3 fusible links? Would not this be the case in the photos which show a 1 fusible link connector and the second a 2 wire fusible link connector? I thought the 3 wire fusible that 1 link was used solely for the amp meter for the 1:50 amp gauge on the later model? Depending on the model (FJ, BJ, HJ) you can have a number of fusible links. Get a wiring diagram and look at it.

So at the end of the day, which one out of the 3 fusible links do I cut to put the coil in place putting aside whether or not one or any of the links is burnt out? and I want to use fusible link wire so what gauge do I need?All the info is in given earlier in this thread. Please, please, please read it.

 

[watrob]

Ok, I am up at the beach and have sent 4 hours on this amp meter.

Yes there is 12volts on the amp meter whether the ignition is off or on.....is this correct?

Checked white/blue strip & black wires no breaks

Looks like the orginal fusible wire has been replaced at some time.

The white/blue & black wire and the fusible link are on the circuit that has the large white/blue wire that comes from the alternator.

External regulator is ok and charging ok.

Have pulled out the amp meter, not jamed and not burnt out.

Replace fusible link with 18" coil, no go, tried 16" no go, 24" no go, 12" no go and 32" no go.

I see no deflection in amp meter at all?

This sucks?

 

[bj40green]

Did you check both 5 Amp fuses in that little box in series with the Ammeter? If one is defective you'll measure voltage coming from the other side.

Post pictures of your fusible link.
Which 3 wire colors are in that link?
Is that link OEM for the H engine?
Do you see the needle "twitch" when the hazard lights are on?
Do you have a wiring diagram?
What wire size do you use?

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Did you check both 5 Amp fuses in that little box in series with the Ammeter? If one is defective you'll measure voltage coming from the other side.

Post pictures of your fusible link.
Which 3 wire colors are in that link?
Is that link OEM for the H engine?
Do you see the needle "twitch" when the hazard lights are on?
Do you have a wiring diagram?
What wire size do you use?

Rudi

Both my 5 amp fuses are ok in the same black palstic box.

I have 3 fusible links, they all off the + battery terminal, 2 links go to and are are housed in a black plastic box clipped on the main battery cable couple inches from the + battery post. The white/blue amp wire comes off the + battery post and the black amp wire comes from the plastic box (these 2 wires have a plug which inturn goes to the amp meter) which is connected to the heavy white/blue stripe wire from the regulator/alternator.

Inbetween the black wire which comes off the alternator wire and the white/blue stripe wire which is attached to the +battery post is the fusible link.

I don't think this fusible link is that, it looks like a multi stranded normal copper piece 3" wire, anyway I tried the coils and it did not work.

I need to find something I can use to replace this link which I can manually tune/adjust to see if I can get the amo meter to move?



he whit

 

[bj40green]

I did a picture request and asked 5 questions. You answered none.

A FL is a piece of wire, 2 AWG sizes higher than the wires it protects. Just regular wire. Nothing special except for the isolation and the extra anti-fire tube.

I'll try again;
Does the Ammeter twitch when you use the hazard lights?
What AWG size wire did you use for the "coil" ?

Disconnect the Ammeter circuit from the FL and check that circuit with the ohm meter for continuity. Do the test at the prongs of the connector so that the whole circuit is measured.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I did a picture request and asked 5 questions. You answered none.

A FL is a piece of wire, 2 AWG sizes higher than the wires it protects. Just regular wire. Nothing special except for the isolation and the extra anti-fire tube.

I'll try again;
Does the Ammeter twitch when you use the hazard lights?
What AWG size wire did you use for the "coil" ?

Disconnect the Ammeter circuit from the FL and check that circuit with the ohm meter for continuity. Do the test at the prongs of the connector so that the whole circuit is measured.

Rudi

Just got back, first photo fuses.. tested ok, although dust.

 

[watrob]

Here is a photo of the FL connected to the battery. White/blue stripe with 2 red dots connected to battery, black wire 2 red dots connected to junction box (silver tape covered) which connects to the heavy white/blue stripe wire which is alternator. The grey wire coming from the junction box (connected to the black wire) to the battery is the FL.

No flutter in amp meter, output of alternator is 14.15volts at idle, ok.

White/blue stripe & black wire connected to brown plug which runs thru to amp meter, amp meter has 12 volts.

 

[bj40green]

Okay, first some explanation. The Ammeter circuit is a LOOP. If there is a problem in that circuit you'll measure ALWAYS 12V at the Ammeter because you measure the voltage that comes from the other side.

The problem with this circuit can be described as: My Ammeter doesn't show any movement. It only "twitch" or "flutter" a little when I use the hazard lights.
If you don't have this "twitch" or "flutter" it means that the circuit doesn't function at all so we have to check this circuit first.
The Volt test at the Ammeter is not sufficient. You have to do an ohm test to test the WHOLE circuit from connector prong to connector prong.

So again...... please do the test and report your reading....... ohm.

Maybe you can go back a few postings and answer all the questions I asked.
Post pictures of your fusible link. Done.
Which 3 wire colors are in that link?
Is that link OEM for the H engine?
Do you see the needle "twitch" when the hazard lights are on?
Do you have a wiring diagram?
Does the Ammeter twitch when you use the hazard lights?
What AWG size wire did you use for the "coil" ?

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

So this is what I see.
- Thick White/Blue wire from alternator to junction box, to white wire, to battery.
- Thin White/Blue wire from battery to brown connector, to Ammeter.
- Black wire with 2 red dots from junction box White wire to brown connector, to Ammeter.
- White wire from junction box to battery is the Fusible Link.

If this is true then this circuit is correct. This is how it should be connected.

But if it's not true.......

The grey wire coming from the junction box (connected to the black wire) to the battery is the FL.

1. I don't see a grey wire, I see a white wire and my logic tells met that it is connected to the thick White /Blue wire and not to the fat black wire.
2. What connects to what in that junction box?

Rudi

BTW; did you do the ohm test on the Ammeter circuit?