Chasing a single clunk as the car changes direction - video [Solved] (3 Viewers)

[LandCruiser105]

I have been chasing a moderate clunk on and off for at least a year without success! It clunks once typically as I change direction. Seems to be coming from the front. Felt more in the feet/chassis than in the steering wheel. The short video is a collection of examples when the clunk occurred. There is nothing to see in the visuals, but I am hoping someone might recognise the sound!



The car is a 2002 105 series, so it is solid axle and more like an 80 in terms of its suspension and steering (hence me posting this forum - hope thats OK.)

Things checked or changed:
1) No visible signs of steering box chassis area cracks, nor any evidence of cracking in panhard (lateral) mounting points either side.
2) Panhard rod bushes were replaced in 2019, 35k miles ago with genuine toyota parts - bolts are tight. Have removed and replaced both front and rear, to check condition of bush and for ovalling of bolt hole (none) & retorqued.
3) Tie rod ends are 555 brand, replaced 2018, in service for 44k miles.
4) Springs / shock absorbers and bushes, etc., all just 2-3 years old. Spring is not shifting on its seat when the weight shifts with the change of direction.
5) Control arm bushes are all changes in 2019, genuine toyota.
6) mid to front body mounts have been checked and some videoed - no clunk from these.
7) Steering box itself was changed in 2022, about 10k miles ago. Brand new, genuine toyota ($$ but it is soooo much better...)
8) No visible or audible play at 3-9 oclock or 12-6 on the front wheels - bearings and trunnion (kingpin) seems tight.
9) Car is at 200k miles and on original birfields. These were changed side-side back in 2016 to even out wear.
10) Last knuckle rebuild was in 2020, 30k miles in service since. Koyo bearings. Trunnion preload 6lb both sides, wheel bearing preload 13lb both sides (inner nut torqued to 27ftlb.) Snap rings fitted to give axle end float of under 0.2mm.
11) Steering damper renewed in 2020. Clunk present whether damper is on or off.
12) Front sway bar bushes and drop links new in 2021, genuine Mr T.
13) Rear sway bar bushes and cushions renewed in 2022, genuine Mr T.
14) Radius arm bushes in good condition - renewed 2019 - bolts at correct torque. Removed and retorqued radius arms - no change to clunk.

My suspicions are possible issues with the tie rod (but they seem firm) or the birfields as they are old - but I wouldnt have thought this would give a single resonant clunk? Or possibly one of the body mounts I haven't checked.

Any thoughts would be very welcome!

 

[Fj80oregon]

Have you checked the exhaust hangers? Maybe exhaust bouncing off the drive line or frame?

 

[Kernal]

Have you greased the driveshafts (slip-yolks and U-joints), how did you do that, what grease/frequency,etc??

Have you pulled the driveshafts out to inspect the splines and U-joints?

 

[LandCruiser105]

I dont think it is exhaust or driveshafts/Ujoints. Exhaust is fairly new with new mounting hardware - I checked this out and all seems OK there. The driveshaft U joints get lubed every 3k miles, and I have replaced the front u joints (using genuine T) in the last year. Both drive shafts are running a heavy duty slip joint, which is correctly lubed.

I also pulled off the tie rod ends yesterday to take a look, and I can move and rotate the joints with my finger and thumb - which is not ideal but they feel smooth and no discernable play at all. Maybe there is a bit of slack in there that could clunk under changing load conditions?

 

[Kernal]

What is a heavy duty slip yolk, an aftermarket part? When were those installed?? When were the U-joints installed? When did the clunk start in relation to those repairs/replacements?? What grease is being used for the slip yolks or U-joints?

When were the CV joints last serviced, how? CV joints packed with a Moly fortified grease? Are the knuckles currently packed (2/3-3/4 full) with a Moly fortified grease?

Is there anything that causes the clunk to occur more often, louder, quieter, or make it go away? Driving in reverse, while turning, while applying the brakes, while accelerating from a stop while turning??

How did this start, slowly getting louder and louder, suddenly, after a recent service or repair??

 

[LandCruiser105]

What is a heavy duty slip yolk, an aftermarket part? When were those installed?? When were the U-joints installed? When did the clunk start in relation to those repairs/replacements?? What grease is being used for the slip yolks or U-joints?

When were the CV joints last serviced, how? CV joints packed with a Moly fortified grease? Are the knuckles currently packed (2/3-3/4 full) with a Moly fortified grease?

Is there anything that causes the clunk to occur more often, louder, quieter, or make it go away? Driving in reverse, while turning, while applying the brakes, while accelerating from a stop while turning??

How did this start, slowly getting louder and louder, suddenly, after a recent service or repair??

The HD slip yoke is an aftermarket part with a larger spline set, welded to the original shaft and protected by a rubber boot. Quite a good setup, keeps the dirt out. Had that fitted intially in the front, then when the rear shaft splines wore on a fairly new Toyota driveshaft (corrugated roads), I also fitted that to the back. Seems tight, no play, smooth movement. Work on the driveshafts (inc running with just front or just rear) has no effect on this clunk.

Yes to moly grease in the knuckles, kept packed. Last knuckle job I did 30k miles ago in 2020.

The clunk has gradually appeared, and not connected to any particular work done on the car. I can make the clunk appear by turning one way then the other at moderate speed. (Such as entering exiting roundabouts etc). No difference when coasting/steadyspeed/accelerating. Doesnt tend to clunk at slower speeds.

This might be CV related - last time I had those apart was a while ago, and they are the originals. I swapped these side-side back in 2016 to even out wear and they were most recently cleaned, inspected and refilled in 2020 when I fitted a front e-locker. Given their age and use (200k miles), I am a bit suspicious - but I'm not getting the typical click click click of a failed CV on turns.

 

[robnicko]

I dont know but to me it sounds like a suspension part binding and then releasing

 

[mudgudgeon]

Check the bolt holes for radius arm bolts on the diff housing haven't flogged out and become elongated?
My 80 would make a heavy Click/clunk when torque went through the front axle, so braking, crossing a sloped driveway crossover, turning, braking.

Was a bit random. But also fairly consistent in certain scenarios

Radius arm bolt torque made no difference, torquing them to titeazfark helped for a few weeks, then the noise came back.

Also check for cracking in the chassis around the steering box, and the panhard rod brace bracket on the other side

 

[LandCruiser105]

I dont know but to me it sounds like a suspension part binding and then releasing

I think from the sound it ought to be that! Kind of a resonant 'twang' at times, just a plain old clunk at others. Doesnt seem to be springs reseating though...

 

[LandCruiser105]

Check the bolt holes for radius arm bolts on the diff housing haven't flogged out and become elongated?
My 80 would make a heavy Click/clunk when torque went through the front axle, so braking, crossing a sloped driveway crossover, turning, braking.

Was a bit random. But also fairly consistent in certain scenarios

Radius arm bolt torque made no difference, torquing them to titeazfark helped for a few weeks, then the noise came back.

Also check for cracking in the chassis around the steering box, and the panhard rod brace bracket on the other side

I've inspected the chassis and panhard ends real close, but cant see any cracks or giveaway rust lines... Radius arm bolt holes aren't rounded. Out of your scenarios (sloped crossover, turning, braking) I am only getting it whilst turning, usually on a change of direction through centre, which is a data point of sort...

 

[mudgudgeon]

I've inspected the chassis and panhard ends real close, but cant see any cracks or giveaway rust lines... Radius arm bolt holes aren't rounded. Out of your scenarios (sloped crossover, turning, braking) I am only getting it whilst turning, usually on a change of direction through centre, which is a data point of sort...

If it's only while turning, I'd look harder at the chassis. You're right it often shows sa rust line, but wetting it can show it too. The crack will dry last.

Another thing to look at is trunion/king pin bearings.
Did they get swapped when knuckles were refreshed?
Jack up the front wheels, leave the wheels on, pop tie rods off (fast and easy with the right puller), then steer each wheel with your hands on the tire. Rotate them fully.

I've had long bearings fail and really bind up the knuckle. Even if they were swapped with knuckle refresh, I'd say they are a suspect until you prove to yourself they are not.



This was my 105 cruiser. I went chasing a problem with a funky steering action and a click in tight hairpin (switch back) turns. Found this, and cracked frame at steering box

 

[LandCruiser105]

If it's only while turning, I'd look harder at the chassis. You're right it often shows sa rust line, but wetting it can show it too. The crack will dry last.

Another thing to look at is trunion/king pin bearings.
Did they get swapped when knuckles were refreshed?
Jack up the front wheels, leave the wheels on, pop tie rods off (fast and easy with the right puller), then steer each wheel with your hands on the tire. Rotate them fully.

I've had long bearings fail and really bind up the knuckle. Even if they were swapped with knuckle refresh, I'd say they are a suspect until you prove to yourself they are not.



This was my 105 cruiser. I went chasing a problem with a funky steering action and a click in tight hairpin (switch back) turns. Found this, and cracked frame at steering box

Good video! That was exactly what mine were like the first time I did them. Last night I popped off all tie rod ends and swung the knuckle just as you did in the video. They were changed 30k miles ago, and my trunnions were pretty smooth on full swing side to side with only a hint of them just starting to favour the centre, not notchy at all. Good preload still there too.

Just got back from another video run with the gopro attached to the tie rod & steering bars (drag link) both front and rear, and also the sway bar for good measure. The clunk sound seemed quieter and more 'distant'. So I think if it was tie bar ends (or even CVs?) I'd hear a helluva clunk through the mic when the camera is on a tie bar...

So I do think you are on the right lines about this being chassis related. And a great tip about wetting the chassis to look for cracks - I'll try that now. Cheers!

 

[LandCruiser105]

I ran another video with the GoPro mounted on the panhard rod itself - it certainly clunked as usual I went around my test roundabout, but was almost inaudible on the footage. Makes me think this is not cracks in the panhard rod tower, nor the bolts/bushes slipping - surely it would be loud if they were. If the GoPro sound is anything to go by, it seems noisiest on the chassis. (No luck finding any cracks on wetting the chassis steering box and 2x panhard mounts).

 

[mudgudgeon]

Re-read your first post and watched video again.
Seems like you've done a pretty thorough job of eliminating possible issues.

A couple of other things to look at, body mount brackets on frame, body mount bolts, body mount on the body.

Engine mounts and transmission mounts.

Beyond that, it's got me stumped

 

[LandCruiser105]

Re-read your first post and watched video again.
Seems like you've done a pretty thorough job of eliminating possible issues.

A couple of other things to look at, body mount brackets on frame, body mount bolts, body mount on the body.

Engine mounts and transmission mounts.

Beyond that, it's got me stumped

Stumped? Yeah - me too. Engine and Tranny mounts are both new, fitted last year. I am now wondering if I can track it down by putting the GoPro on rear control arms, radius mounts, video all body mounts, etc and try and locate it that way. Chassis ears could also do the trick, possibly, if I could record and compare the channels for volume! Anyway - Thanks for the thoughts.... appreciate it. Its a slow game but I am determined to find and fix it!

 

[Kernal]

@LandCruiser105 : Do you have a link for the HD slip yolk and boot (was it a kit?) that you can post up?

 

[LandCruiser105]

@LandCruiser105 : Do you have a link for the HD slip yolk and boot (was it a kit?) that you can post up?

Yes of course - top right of https://www.hardyspicer.com.au/wp-c...yota-4WD-Driveshaft-Parts-HS-4WD2019-0510.pdf on page 2.

I tried this after corrugations wore out a brand new genuine Toyota driveshaft slip joint in about 30k or so. You can keep the standard toyota U-joints, which I do. No more slip joint clunk ... The boot keeps the joint clean, and a breather valve stops any chance of hydraulic locking for those who get friskier than needed with the grease gun. (No affiliation to the company.)

 

[Fosters]

Spindle bushing or bearing…
I’m chasing a similar noise which is heard/felt in the floor pan when making a left turn…everything has been replaced…still have it…only things left are body mounts and spindle bushings

 

[LandCruiser105]

Spindle bushing or bearing…
I’m chasing a similar noise which is heard/felt in the floor pan when making a left turn…everything has been replaced…still have it…only things left are body mounts and spindle bushings

Im hearing ya - but new spindles with bearings 30k ago. Doesn't mean they are still good, of course... Am going to run though the body mounts next and if that doesnt work a front end tear down is looking likely to inspect CVs, spindles, etc. But... I am not sure that this is axle related, given that the clunk sound is loudest when the camera is on the chassis - and much much quieter when the camera is mounted on the tie rods/drag link.

 

[BILT4ME]

Are your springs close enough to catch on anything when the frame shifts in relation to the axle? There have been a few folks that have had spring deflection and it would contact a part of the spring perch. It doesn't have the twangy sound I would expect, but worth looking at.

Also look at the steering shaft where it penetrates the firewall. Probably not it, but worth a look.

You've done a good job of walking through everything in order. Now you need to stop back and look at the "what if" and "just by chance" stuff.

Yes, I would look at frame mounts and body mounts, sliders, shocks, sway bar mounts, and even the steering shock. Maybe that tapered mounting bolt is loose.