Caster Plates for a 3” Lift are they all the same ? (1 Viewer)
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NLXTACY
Wits' End
Correctly designed caster plates will do far more than “get you down the road”. In fact they are perfect for 99.5% of those with anywhere from a 2” to 4.5” lift and the type of off-roaring they do. This forum is a testament to that.
Any and all caster plates do NOTHING more than correct your caster and do Nothing to aid in off road performance and in many cases hamper it.
Delta's engineered arms do way more than ANY caster plate ever made. They are the new go to for smart guys for ease of installation requiring no special drills, tools, cutting, welding, modifying of stock components, or brackets. They offer huge benefits for those who really wheel with large tires and want the best bolt-on geomertry performance available today.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
1.) Any and all caster plates do NOTHING more than correct your caster and do Nothing to aid in off road performance and in many cases hamper it.
2.) Delta's engineered arms do way more than ANY caster plate ever made.
3.)They are the new go to for smart guys for ease of installation requiring no special drills, tools, cutting, welding, modifying of stock components, or brackets.
4.)They offer huge benefits for those who really wheel with large tires and want the best bolt-on geomertry performance available today.
I only edited your post to break down each statement.
1.) In what ways do proper “rotation on the centerline of the axle” caster plates hamper anything?
2.) What do these arms do that plates don’t?
3.) This seems wonky, as guys are still running swaybar spacers, disconnects, or chucking the bar.......and the M$RP of those arms is how much?
4.) This restates Q#1, but really doesn’t say ***how*** these are superior to the point of probably 4x the $$$ of plates (or more?).
I’m not trying to pick a fight, and I’m open to new info - but lumping all caster plates into 1 catagory is the same as saying a 3FE & a 1FZ 80 all are the same.
Why are these arms so worthwhile? - or is it just that I’ve never exceeded 4” lift / 315’s on my @landtank / @NLXTACY plates.
I had Interco 37’s twice , but it was on Slee plates, J springs, spacers - all current in ~2007, but clearly things have moved forward.
QUOTE="LINUS, post: 12576107, member: 417
I only edited your post to break down each statement.
Great questions
To be clear - Im not Delta just a big fan of there well-engineered arms
1.) In what ways do proper “rotation on the centerline of the axle” caster plates hamper anything?
Not all caster plates “rotation on the centerline of the axle” some plates just pivot the axle.
Caster plates do nothing to eliminate the binding you get with stock arms do to the width.
Caster plates your tie rod closer to factory arms and in many cases require grinding for clearance.
Caster plates do nothing to reposition the axle something that is needed with large tires for clearance
2.) What do these arms do that plates don’t?
Make installation is quick and simple and dont require special tools most DIY dont have.
Put your axle back in the original place giving one the needed clearance for large tires.
Narrower than stock - no binding more travel and reduce the chance of bracket damage if you wheel hard
Provide the needed clearance between arms and tie rod
Talking with Delta they can make arms for any lift with maximum caster whereas caster plates have limits
3.) This seems wonky, as guys are still running swaybar spacers, disconnects, or chucking the bar.......and the M$RP of those arms is how much?
Im one of those guys that did all that and more. Fast forward to today and it would have been MUCH easier to do it right and go with Delta arms. Note once you go caster plates it requires rebuilding the factory brackets to go back in most cases.
Not my product not sure on cost
4.) This restates Q#1, but really doesn’t say ***how*** these are superior to the point of probably 4x the $$$ of plates (or more?).
I’m not trying to pick a fight, and I’m open to new info - but lumping all caster plates into 1 catagory is the same as saying a 3FE & a 1FZ 80 all are the same.
I agree all caster plates are not the same some require much more work and special tools to install but the advantages of Arms over all plates is the same.
Why are these arms so worthwhile? - or is it just that I’ve never exceeded 4” lift / 315’s on my @landtank / @NLXTACY plates.
See above
I had Interco 37’s twice , but it was on Slee plates, J springs, spacers - all current in ~2007, but clearly things have moved forward.
I can relate I was on 37's back in 2003 before caster plates using wristed arms from South Africa. Now we have one stop shopping made and available in the USA. Thanks Delta
I only edited your post to break down each statement.
Great questions
To be clear - Im not Delta just a big fan of there well-engineered arms
1.) In what ways do proper “rotation on the centerline of the axle” caster plates hamper anything?
Not all caster plates “rotation on the centerline of the axle” some plates just pivot the axle.
Caster plates do nothing to eliminate the binding you get with stock arms do to the width.
Caster plates your tie rod closer to factory arms and in many cases require grinding for clearance.
Caster plates do nothing to reposition the axle something that is needed with large tires for clearance
2.) What do these arms do that plates don’t?
Make installation is quick and simple and dont require special tools most DIY dont have.
Put your axle back in the original place giving one the needed clearance for large tires.
Narrower than stock - no binding more travel and reduce the chance of bracket damage if you wheel hard
Provide the needed clearance between arms and tie rod
Talking with Delta they can make arms for any lift with maximum caster whereas caster plates have limits
3.) This seems wonky, as guys are still running swaybar spacers, disconnects, or chucking the bar.......and the M$RP of those arms is how much?
Im one of those guys that did all that and more. Fast forward to today and it would have been MUCH easier to do it right and go with Delta arms. Note once you go caster plates it requires rebuilding the factory brackets to go back in most cases.
Not my product not sure on cost
4.) This restates Q#1, but really doesn’t say ***how*** these are superior to the point of probably 4x the $$$ of plates (or more?).
I’m not trying to pick a fight, and I’m open to new info - but lumping all caster plates into 1 catagory is the same as saying a 3FE & a 1FZ 80 all are the same.
I agree all caster plates are not the same some require much more work and special tools to install but the advantages of Arms over all plates is the same.
Why are these arms so worthwhile? - or is it just that I’ve never exceeded 4” lift / 315’s on my @landtank / @NLXTACY plates.
See above
I had Interco 37’s twice , but it was on Slee plates, J springs, spacers - all current in ~2007, but clearly things have moved forward.
I can relate I was on 37's back in 2003 before caster plates using wristed arms from South Africa. Now we have one stop shopping made and available in the USA. Thanks Delta
What is the Slee part number?
Tks
How does a cut & turn of the axle compare to plates or arms? Is the cost prohibitive or is this proper way to make the adjustment?
Cut and turn is not popular with the 80 crowd, probably because of the potential of tie rod to radius arm interference. But theoretically, cut and turn is the only way to adjust caster by a significant amount without changing anything else.
Bambusiero
SILVER Star
I second the challenge to this notion.
Have seen it written many times, on many threads, but is this viewpoint based on empirical observation? I think not.
How many have installed offset kingpin/trunnion bearings, or even touched a set? Very few, I think, at least in the US.
Pure negative speculation, I say.
OTOH, @AutoCraft Aus says he normally installs them on heavy overland rigs in Australia, and recommends it. Has for years.
They cost about $225, while a set of stock 0 degree bearings are $80, BTW. I wouldn't call that expensive, when taken in context of everything else being considered here.
But...on the (other) other hand, they cannot solve the castor problem all by themselves, and must still be combined with other solutions, so they are an added expense. Done to improve handling even further.
And...they do add some (like 0.86 degrees?) castor correction to whatever else you do, so consider the total, not just one.
So, to sum it up - offset kingpin/trunnion bearings are for camber correction, not for caster correction.
But they do contribute some to castor corrections, as well.
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Bambusiero
SILVER Star
We're scaredy cats, afraid to violate our sacred cow 80's axles.
40 & 60 Series folks, on the other hand, seem quite ready and willing to cut right in...
COYS
SILVER Star
My experience...
Ran the metal tech plates. Solid caster results. Positive 3.75/4. Caused my tire to rub on the passenger rear side of wheel well backing up.
Recently installed the 4 Delta arms. Even 4.25 positive caster. Tire no longer rubs as my wheelbase returned to what it was pre-plates.
Had the Delta arms existed I definitely would’ve passed on the plates. The ride with the Delta arms feels even better. Hate that I had to notch the front axle.
Ran the metal tech plates. Solid caster results. Positive 3.75/4. Caused my tire to rub on the passenger rear side of wheel well backing up.
Recently installed the 4 Delta arms. Even 4.25 positive caster. Tire no longer rubs as my wheelbase returned to what it was pre-plates.
Had the Delta arms existed I definitely would’ve passed on the plates. The ride with the Delta arms feels even better. Hate that I had to notch the front axle.
Bludozer
SILVER Star
Arms are better than plates, no one who has spent 15 minutes googling would disagree. They are also 4-6x the cost. Are they 4-6x better? Probably not. Think about how you're going to use your truck and where it is most important to you to dedicate funds. Arms may be an important splurge for some, for others, not. It's all individual.
Bambusiero
SILVER Star
Bambusiero
SILVER Star
Knuckle Cut & Turn by @Krazytoy is the only 80 Series Cut & Turn story told in public, as far as I know.
at 4" lift a cut and turn gains nothing over my plates and will actually have a higher degree of tie rod contact. Along with having the diff pointing more north which IMO could effect lubrication of the outer pinion bearing. But you can still probably run the stock drive shaft.
The true cut and turn is better than any band aid plates the arms are great I have a set of Delta's on my cruiser and it drives much better
COYS
SILVER Star
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Bambusiero
SILVER Star
...is what it says on the box...but what's your actual measured lift, is what I meant?
Probably a little different, mine's the same one, but comes out a bit less.
If you haven't already measured, the cleanest way is - tape measure bolts to floor at both ends of the front panhard, subtract, then subtract 1" from that (because stock frame end is ~1" higher).
I disagree. Once the truck is lifted the axle has rotated and alignments have changed. The spring perches are off which creates a bow in the spring, there is a twist in the pan hard stressing the bushings while at rest and the slope of the drag link is exaggerated effecting steering performance.
So counter rotating the whole axle helps correct all those alignments reducing those effects as well as correct your caster.
This just depends on the lift ,, over 4" yeah the cut and turn is ok, but passed that and you need radius arms
